According to Dr. Umar, the black church as a collective takes in $14 Million dollars every Sunday...
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@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques? -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
Good post.
With the bold most people IMO don't speak in absolutes when talking about the church. Of course some do which you are correct when you say its intellectually dishonest. Some people just take it as a person speaking in absolutes when its a topic near and dear to them cause it helps them make a point in the discussion. -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I have had the same experience as Skpjr. And not negating your friends experience or yours but I find that hard to believe. Not the distancing from Islam but Islam not being up for discussion. Nah. Duck tales. I do agree that we can find questionable people in Islam and Christianity though. -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I have had the same experience as Skpjr. And not negating your friends experience or yours but I find that hard to believe. Not the distancing from Islam but Islam not being up for discussion. Nah. Duck tales. I do agree that we can find questionable people in Islam and Christianity though.
You're speaking of someone who was born and raised with that being the first and only culture and belief system they knew for the first 18 years of their life before coming to the US. Its not hard to take their word when talking about their experiences as what they've actually been through. -
The nation of islam is heretical.
People need to learn to make a distinction between the theology/teachings of a religion and the contradictory actions of it's adherents. Theology and humans actions are not always linked so sometimes they should be judged separately -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I have had the same experience as Skpjr. And not negating your friends experience or yours but I find that hard to believe. Not the distancing from Islam but Islam not being up for discussion. Nah. Duck tales. I do agree that we can find questionable people in Islam and Christianity though.
You're speaking of someone who was born and raised with that being the first and only culture and belief system they knew for the first 18 years of their life before coming to the US. Its not hard to take their word when talking about their experiences as what they've actually been through.
I am born and raised Muslim. So, I am speaking from firsthand experience. -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
Good post.
With the bold most people IMO don't speak in absolutes when talking about the church. Of course some do which you are correct when you say its intellectually dishonest. Some people just take it as a person speaking in absolutes when its a topic near and dear to them cause it helps them make a point in the discussion.
Yeah that was something I had to learn myself the more I distanced myself from Christianity. I'm Latino so its no shock I grew up in a very catholic family however my dad openly encouraged and damn near forced my siblings and I to read and learn as much as possible in order to decide what was best for us as individuals. i would get into constant conflicts with religion teachers in school for asking questions about things within not just Catholicism but Christianity in general that were openly discussed in my home but discouraged by some within either the church or in my school. So I can easily see why that would be a huge turn off to anyone actively looking to learn about what it is they are being told to believe in....but I also have met many within Christianity who are staunchly against the old guard of don't ask or question ? and see how that has contributed greatly to pushing many away from faith as a whole not just being a Christian. As one pastor told me "If I can't answer your question or direct you to someone or someplace that can then how can I logically expect you to believe? Blind faith doesnt mean be stupid" -
The nation of islam is heretical.
People need to learn to make a distinction between the theology/teachings of a religion and the contradictory actions of it's adherents. Theology and humans actions are not always linked so sometimes they should be judged separately
They should always be judged separately because, we are incapable of completely carrying out to a T what the creator has ordained for us. -
The nation of islam is heretical.
People need to learn to make a distinction between the theology/teachings of a religion and the contradictory actions of it's adherents. Theology and humans actions are not always linked so sometimes they should be judged separately
This is very true and something else some anti religion people don't seem to grasp at times. -
The nation of islam is heretical.
People need to learn to make a distinction between the theology/teachings of a religion and the contradictory actions of it's adherents. Theology and humans actions are not always linked so sometimes they should be judged separately
They should always be judged separately because, we are incapable of completely carrying out to a T what the creator has ordained for us.
DON'T quite agree with that because if what YOU do is not in contradiction with your religion then it's fair to lay blame on your religion for those actions and you are simply choosing to carry out the laws/precepts of your religion -
in other words, if you do something that is against your religion i cannot blame the religion for that but if you do something that is in line with your religion then i can blame your religion and you for that
-
The nation of islam is heretical.
People need to learn to make a distinction between the theology/teachings of a religion and the contradictory actions of it's adherents. Theology and humans actions are not always linked so sometimes they should be judged separately
They should always be judged separately because, we are incapable of completely carrying out to a T what the creator has ordained for us.
DON'T quite agree with that because if what YOU do is not in contradiction with your religion then it's fair to lay blame on your religion for those actions and you are simply choosing to carry out the laws/precepts of your religion
There is no reason to separate the two if what you are doing is in accordance with your religion. My statement is in the context of going against one's religion. -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I never claimed that my experiences spoke for anyone other than me. You said that I didn't. What's intellectually dishonest is for you to make an issue of something I NEVER SAID.
What you just did is straight out of the ? fake Christian playbook. Nobody builds a better straw man than black Christians. I spoke on my own personal experience and you took it upon yourself to turn my individual experience into a blanket statement that I never made. Your preemptive attack against a charge I never made says more about you than it could ever say about me.
My anecdote about unanswered questions in the church must have struck a nerve. That ? obviously resonated with you. From my own personal experiences I've noticed that nothing makes a Christian, especially a black Christian, more angry than an uncomfortable and undeniable FACT. You are no different than the other guy who got mad after I posted a direct quote from Jesus when he threw the money changers out of the temple. Those weren't my words. Those were the words of your self confessed Lord and saviour that came directly out of the book that you claim is the ultimate word of ? . A direct quote of Jesus pulled directly from the bible should be undebatable in the eyes of a Christian but since that quote exposed an uncomfortable truth it must be argued and debated. Smmfh.
In my own personal experience I've never met anyone more hypocritical than a church going black Christian. You and @pachá12 have further reinforced that opinion today. Smh -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
NOI -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I never claimed that my experiences spoke for anyone other than me. You said that I didn't. What's intellectually dishonest is for you to make an issue of something I NEVER SAID.
What you just did is straight out of the ? fake Christian playbook. Nobody builds a better straw man than black Christians. I spoke on my own personal experience and you took it upon yourself to turn my individual experience into a blanket statement that I never made. Your preemptive attack against a charge I never made says more about you than it could ever say about me.
My anecdote about unanswered questions in the church must have struck a nerve. That ? obviously resonated with you. From my own personal experiences I've noticed that nothing makes a Christian, especially a black Christian, more angry than an uncomfortable and undeniable FACT. You are no different than the other guy who got mad after I posted a direct quote from Jesus when he threw the money changers out of the temple. Those weren't my words. Those were the words of your self confessed Lord and saviour that came directly out of the book that you claim is the ultimate word of ? . A direct quote of Jesus pulled directly from the bible should be undebatable in the eyes of a Christian but since that quote exposed an uncomfortable truth it must be argued and debated. Smmfh.
In my own personal experience I've never met anyone more hypocritical than a church going black Christian. You and @pachá12 have further reinforced that opinion today. Smh
And this is how I know you're not reading and just responding. I've stated multiple times that I don't identify as a Christian and don't go to church yet your response either purposely ignores it or you just chose to type some random ? . Your quote didn't resonate with me because youre not speaking against something I believe in so there's no nerve to strike.
I specifically said that there are people within every religious denomination that are very traditional in their beliefs and aren't too keen on things being questioned and you responded that you had yet to experience that within Islam. I never said you were saying your experience spoke for all I said that to I said that your experience is yours alone and just because you haven't experienced it yet doesn't mean those people still don't exist within Islam. So while you may have never explicitly stated it you did very much leave it open to interpretation that you were trying to uplift Islam as a forum of open minds while ? on Christinanity for being the opposite when both can be very closed minded depending on who you speak to and what subjects you are speaking about. -
LOL for a second there i thought he was a real muslim................ Anyway you can be a black nationalist/separatist/supremacist without mixing in a corrupted form of a religion.
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@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
NOI
This makes your response even funnier. Idk if you've ever read the book about the black mafia in Philly but if you haven't your "they're so open and will answer anything" stance probably wouldn't be as strong -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
And that is great that you've had that experience but your personal testimony isn't a complete picture of everyone who claims to abide by Islam. One of my closest friends is born and raised in Pakistan. Known him for over a decade now and have had plenty of conversations about religion and part of the reason he has distanced himself from Islam is because of how traditional and restrictive it can be and the things he disagrees with not being "up for discussion" among many he has come across in his life. Same as I can find some Christians who all they know is a church where open discussion is welcomed and encouraged. Your experience doesnt speak for all and its intellectually dishonest to the discussion to paint it as such. Same as even though i don't consider myself a Christian I won't use my experiences to paint a negative picture as a whole because I have actually seen some folks use church and what it offers to improve the quality of their life
I have had the same experience as Skpjr. And not negating your friends experience or yours but I find that hard to believe. Not the distancing from Islam but Islam not being up for discussion. Nah. Duck tales. I do agree that we can find questionable people in Islam and Christianity though.
You're speaking of someone who was born and raised with that being the first and only culture and belief system they knew for the first 18 years of their life before coming to the US. Its not hard to take their word when talking about their experiences as what they've actually been through.
I am born and raised Muslim. So, I am speaking from firsthand experience.
In the states or abroad? I ask that because I've often gotten 2 very distinct types of experiences from Muslims born and raised in the US and those raised outside the US -
western Muslims practice "vanilla" Islam
-
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
traditional... i grew up baptist my pops is Nigerian and muslim. they will openly talk and explain the koran and any questions u have. dude right christians will shame u mock ur intelligence will ? cliche answers of flat out refuse to discuss it. u know how manly whoopins i got as a kid cuz i asked real ass questions in sunday school that got no answers and instead they told my mom i was actuing uo being disruptive? lol -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
traditional... i grew up baptist my pops is Nigerian and muslim. they will openly talk and explain the koran and any questions u have. dude right christians will shame u mock ur intelligence will ? cliche answers of flat out refuse to discuss it. u know how manly whoopins i got as a kid cuz i asked real ass questions in sunday school that got no answers and instead they told my mom i was actuing uo being disruptive? lol
That's because the answers to many questions people have about christian theology are either too hard for some people to properly explain or they just cannot be bothered to go through the whole thing with a little kid.
if a little child asks me why is there so much suffering in the world..... do you know how hard it can be to explain theodicy and everything related to it to him??? Now i can give him some simple answer but he'll just have more questions and it will only become harder for me to continue dumbing it down for him and in dumbing it down i also do him a disservice because he will remain somewhat ignorant but will most likely not know that he's ignorant and could possible spread more ignorance....... That's why smart Christians tend to just tell most people to pray and to the study scriptures themselves.
Then come back and ask more questions to Christians they think may know more, you feed the children milk before you feed them meat. -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
traditional... i grew up baptist my pops is Nigerian and muslim. they will openly talk and explain the koran and any questions u have. dude right christians will shame u mock ur intelligence will ? cliche answers of flat out refuse to discuss it. u know how manly whoopins i got as a kid cuz i asked real ass questions in sunday school that got no answers and instead they told my mom i was actuing uo being disruptive? lol
That's because the answers to many questions people have about christian theology are either too hard for some people to properly explain or they just cannot be bothered to go through the whole thing with a little kid.
if a little child asks me why is there so much suffering in the world..... do you know how hard it can be to explain theodicy and everything related to it to him??? Now i can give him some simple answer but he'll just have more questions and it will only become harder for me to continue dumbing it down for him and in dumbing it down i also do him a disservice because he will remain somewhat ignorant but will most likely not know that he's ignorant and could possible spread more ignorance....... That's why smart Christians tend to just tell most people to pray and to the study scriptures themselves.
Then come back and ask more questions to Christians they think may know more, you feed the children milk before you feed them meat.
The bold would suffice if those types of responses were only directed towards kids, but people also use those responses to adults as well. Now granted many people's interpretation of things is very elementary and flawed, but it still doesn't all the way excuse people's ignorance in terms of their understandings of scriptures and their beliefs they base around them or their lack of ability to explain things. One common example is people who say "Just pray on it" as if that's a magical answer to everything yet you will also get some who say prayer w/o work or actions to actively change what you want is pointless. One of those responses makes sense, the other is an oft repeated adage that is said just to be said -
@skpjr78 aren't you a Muslim?????
No I'm not but I am studying Islam. I grew up in the Christian church and was told too many times to stop asking questions and never question ? . It feels good to able to study something and be surrounded by people who want you to ask questions and won't let you leave until they answer it.
Meanwhile the typical church going Christians are still doing overt, contradictory ? right in your face and expecting you to pretend like you don't see it and forbidding you to ask questions about it. You can't ? on my head and tell me it's raining. I'll save that ? for the negros who still pray to the same ? as David Duke and the KKK. I'll pass.
I grew up in a Christian family and went to Catholic schools all the way up to 10th grade. Ive definitely experienced the don't ask ? christians but I've also met and spoken with plenty who encourage asking questions and debating scriptures and applying them to your view of the world. Every religion and denomination has people who are very strict and don't deviate from what they interpret as the literal meanings and then some who are open to interpretation and discussion. You say you're studying Islam now...I'm sure you're not naive enough to think there aren't people within Islam who also discourage questions and aren't extremely traditional in their beliefs. Those people exist everywhere
Everytime I've gone to the mosque or attended any kind of session of any sort I've been told to bring a notebook a pen and be prepared to ask questions. I've actually been to meetings where the brothers were upset that not enough questions were being asked. I have never walked out of the mosque with unanswered question and I make it my business to ask as many questions as I can. No one brother claimed to know everything but they would not allow to walk out of the door until they found someone somewhere who could provide me with a satisfactory answer. I can wholeheartedly attest to their dedication to answering any and all questions that anybody has. That is the exact opposite of what I dealt with in the church. Anytime I asked my family, a reason, an elder or the pastor a question they didn't like or couldn t answer they would tell me some ? like ? works in mysterious ways, don't question ? or they would just get ? off and tell me to stop asking so many damn questions. I peeped that ? at a very young age and that's when I began to realise that the church was full of ? .
Are you going to Nation of Islam mosques or traditional Islamic mosques?
traditional... i grew up baptist my pops is Nigerian and muslim. they will openly talk and explain the koran and any questions u have. dude right christians will shame u mock ur intelligence will ? cliche answers of flat out refuse to discuss it. u know how manly whoopins i got as a kid cuz i asked real ass questions in sunday school that got no answers and instead they told my mom i was actuing uo being disruptive? lol
That's because the answers to many questions people have about christian theology are either too hard for some people to properly explain or they just cannot be bothered to go through the whole thing with a little kid.
if a little child asks me why is there so much suffering in the world..... do you know how hard it can be to explain theodicy and everything related to it to him??? Now i can give him some simple answer but he'll just have more questions and it will only become harder for me to continue dumbing it down for him and in dumbing it down i also do him a disservice because he will remain somewhat ignorant but will most likely not know that he's ignorant and could possible spread more ignorance....... That's why smart Christians tend to just tell most people to pray and to the study scriptures themselves.
Then come back and ask more questions to Christians they think may know more, you feed the children milk before you feed them meat.
The bold would suffice if those types of responses were only directed towards kids, but people also use those responses to adults as well. Now granted many people's interpretation of things is very elementary and flawed, but it still doesn't all the way excuse people's ignorance in terms of their understandings of scriptures and their beliefs they base around them or their lack of ability to explain things. One common example is people who say "Just pray on it" as if that's a magical answer to everything yet you will also get some who say prayer w/o work or actions to actively change what you want is pointless. One of those responses makes sense, the other is an oft repeated adage that is said just to be said
In my experience many learned Christians do see people as children and spiritually feed them as children until them show themselves to be otherwise. It is simply too arduous to explains things to some people especially when those people aren't asking to questions out of a sincere desire to know but are engaging with you looking for contention. I have went through this very thing many times right here on this forum.
You are correct about the bold but it depends on the topic at hand because sometimes " Just pray on it" is the best answer depending on the person asking the question and the parameters of said question. -
man open dialogue is needed not shaming and denying and denying
