Why hasn't Hip-Hop united under a Socio-Economic System/Philosophy Yet?

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  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Lol ? rather invest on alchool lol wtf.

    How about they make there own private schools.
  • UPTOWN
    UPTOWN Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 13,009 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    You ask a very powerful question that i have also asked. To answer your questions, i don't think hip hop artists today are smart enough to execute such a feat, and the ones that are aren't popular or "relevant" in pop culture. I think for artists to do what you and KRS are talking about they would have to be accepted, and most of today's acceptable artists are the most dumbed down. Most listeners are TRAINED to admire radio-friendly rappers who are industry created and disposable. For hip hop to rise up it would require a massive major-to-indie label movement, then they will need lyrics inundated with conscious content and uplifting messages. From their it can made into a lucrative product by and for the urban/black working-class. IMO of course.

    ive been saying this for years ... the only problem is creating a distributor on a national level
  • Ibex
    Ibex Members Posts: 7,935 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    ? in a barrel...
  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    ibex wrote: »
    ? in a barrel...

    this answers it all.
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    Lol ? rather invest on alchool lol wtf.

    How about they make there own private schools.

    because black people love "getting ? up" off that liquor, why do you think there are so many liquor stores in urban neighborhoods?
  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    because black people love "getting ? up" off that liquor, why do you think there are so many liquor stores in urban neighborhoods?

    iT AINT JUST BLACK PEOPLE THAT LOVE TO GET TWISTED.IRISH PEOPLE LIKE IT WAY MORE BUT THEY GOT PRIVATE SCHOOLS.
  • Disciplined InSight
    Disciplined InSight Members Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Moeskezli wrote: »
    As a direct product of the underclass, why hasn't Hip-Hop smartened up and begin to move towards becoming a self-sufficient system for it and its audience? I remember KRS-One talking about the ability of Hip-Hop to start its own country, and it doesn't sound far-fetched. It extends past being just music into a culture with its own language, philosophies, and capitol. Hip-Hop's a multi-billion dollar industry, being represented now in politics (Kevin Powell) economics (Jay-Z) etc. Not saying that rubbing elbows with whites is supposed to mean something, but to the contrary it s a testament to the potential power that we have to actually make moves. I wanna elaborate but my mind is scattered. In the end, Hip-Hop has the ability to service, feed, clothe, employ, house, educate and strengthen its own people. My questions for yall

    - Why hasn't this happened yet?
    - Would yall be interested in something like this?
    - If so what type of system would you propose?

    *kanye shrug*

    Because Hip Hop is an arena for SELFISH people. Everything in Hip Hop is SELF centered...i.e. how dope my rhymes/beats are, how much money I got, how many cars I got and drive, how many chains I can wear in one day...especially in today's Hip Hop climate. And even though this culture is bigger and suppose to cater to global expansion in the "hoods" of the world for uplift, charity, unity, the artists themselves can't escape those formulaic trends of being self-centered in Hip Hop to expand toward the philosophical/socio-economical side, due to "powers" that wants to keep them there but, to some it's by choice, because they're afraid to step outside that box.
  • 5th Letter
    5th Letter Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    iT AINT JUST BLACK PEOPLE THAT LOVE TO GET TWISTED.IRISH PEOPLE LIKE IT WAY MORE BUT THEY GOT PRIVATE SCHOOLS.

    But we dont, so that is the difference.
  • UPTOWN
    UPTOWN Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 13,009 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Why are yall still stuck on that distribution nonsense. The record industry business model is broken, why would anyone get into distribution when albums aren't selling anymore. I tell you who needs competition, Itunes, they are ripping off these artists based off of the music old business of points off singles and albums.


    Plus what you guys fail to consider is individuality and greed essentially pushes the system. If everyone teams up, there is no competition and creativity. That's essentially communism, you need the individualism for growth and creativity.

    LOL first off distribution is more than just selling cds .... second look at who owns itunes ... if it was as simple as your making it seem someone would have been created some bootleg itunes store. then to top it off ... the artists are on major labels, itunes has deals with these labels/artists. so essentially .. itunes IS the "distributor" .... and also, cds do still sell, its not like rappers are selling 1.5 million downloads and selling 200,000 albums. the majority of music sales are still mechanical royalties (CD's and radio) ringtones had their run until smart phones came into prominence. rick ross couldnt even go gold so now he is re releasing his album with some new tracks on it ... so its not that CD's dont sell and people are running to rapsody and itunes. the actual product sucks nowadays and you can hear the best of it on any radio station. the consumer doesnt trust the artists nowadays, they wanna hear the album first, but the ? dies out before they can even get to best buy to purchase it.... the ? is garbage period ... the last album i remember getting play like albums from ten years ago was sadly lil wayne carter 3 ... everyone was playing that ? and it sold like what?? a million copies the first week??
    jamacia wrote: »
    If blacks can own their own distribution companies then we would be in business. So instead of Roc Nation, and Ciroc liquor, or G Unit cloths they should combine their money and create their own distribution.

    exactly ... the goal that everyone has to have is to not do any business with any established major label/ publisher/ or distributor
  • musicology1985
    musicology1985 Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Great thread and props to Jorkerzwild, Jamaica, UPTOWN & T/S!
  • Moeskezli
    Moeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    You ask a very powerful question that i have also asked. To answer your questions, i don't think hip hop artists today are smart enough to execute such a feat, and the ones that are aren't popular or "relevant" in pop culture. I think for artists to do what you and KRS are talking about they would have to be accepted, and most of today's acceptable artists are the most dumbed down. Most listeners are TRAINED to admire radio-friendly rappers who are industry created and disposable. For hip hop to rise up it would require a massive major-to-indie label movement, then they will need lyrics inundated with conscious content and uplifting messages. From their it can made into a lucrative product by and for the urban/black working-class. IMO of course.

    Trill post. And you've already etched out a small plan. Thats all i we need to do is build on it!

    I agree with the bolded. But then again, most hip hop artist aint smart at all, and we manage to turn this culture into a profitable entity. And just like today's listeners are trained we can re-train our own. I mean, the current system aint working for the underclass right? We should be the people most receiving of an alternative solution.

    And the "lyrics inundated with conscious content and uplifting messages" can be done; maybe not entirely through Hip-Hop but by Hip-Hop. If the culture started to fund education, conscious lyrics could be in the school textbooks. That way the knowledge is instilled. I know its far-fetched, and it would not be easy. but ideas is how we start building
  • Moeskezli
    Moeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    Excellent thread. My take on this, is that Hip hop is a culture. Much of what Krs1 speaks of is'nt too far- fetched. If you think about it. Hip Hop is gaining more independence then ever. There are still more artists out there than we can even imagine. Thats because it's a culture. It's easy to see all the ? that I dont like. but the more that I dig (surf), the more dope music I find.There are a lot of people doing Hip hop for the love. And at this moment in time, more people are making money within it than ever before. Thats power to the people right there. Say what you want about Obama, but wihout Hip Hop. he wouldn't have been elected. That means something People! We for the first time really stood up and won against america's right wing power structure.
    I think in the very near future Rap music will lose it's star appeal. and artists will just be looked at as cultural figures and not stars. The internet is responsible for this, We also have a lot of rapper/activists. It's inevitable that Hip Hoppers permeate every level of Government, Military and Commerce. keep in mind it's just a lil' more than 30 yrs old. But I just don't see it Uniting to the point where it Has it's own "nationality" and state. In some ways that seems counter to what Hip Hop is about. It's suppsed to be Splintered.

    I agree with all of this. Except that Love can't be splintered. The styles, sounds, dialects etc can be splintered but if we doing it for the Love like you said we already were, we can unite. Everybody that aint doing it for the love can continue with there paths. But the people that are can start to do some ? . It's usually the superstar that latches onto some underground idea instead of them starting it. Hip-Hop didn't start with a megastar. We just have to build on how to get it done
  • Moeskezli
    Moeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    Because Hip Hop is an arena for SELFISH people. Everything in Hip Hop is SELF centered...i.e. how dope my rhymes/beats are, how much money I got, how many cars I got and drive, how many chains I can wear in one day...especially in today's Hip Hop climate. And even though this culture is bigger and suppose to cater to global expansion in the "hoods" of the world for uplift, charity, unity, the artists themselves can't escape those formulaic trends of being self-centered in Hip Hop to expand toward the philosophical/socio-economical side, due to "powers" that wants to keep them there but, to some it's by choice, because they're afraid to step outside that box.

    True ? . Hip-Hop is exactly this. I feel like we seen what could have happened though, with P.E., KRS, and the rest. We all know what Hip-Hop is I wanna find out what you think it could be
  • Moeskezli
    Moeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    If Jay Z has enough influence to make people stop wearing jerseys and start wearing button ups, or stop drinking crystal, then I wonder if he started telling people more positive things would people do it?

    I wonder..
  • JokerzWyld
    JokerzWyld Members Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    Moeskezli wrote: »
    Trill post. And you've already etched out a small plan. Thats all i we need to do is build on it!

    I agree with the bolded. But then again, most hip hop artist aint smart at all, and we manage to turn this culture into a profitable entity. And just like today's listeners are trained we can re-train our own. I mean, the current system aint working for the underclass right? We should be the people most receiving of an alternative solution.

    And the "lyrics inundated with conscious content and uplifting messages" can be done; maybe not entirely through Hip-Hop but by Hip-Hop. If the culture started to fund education, conscious lyrics could be in the school textbooks. That way the knowledge is instilled. I know its far-fetched, and it would not be easy. but ideas is how we start building

    It's a very broad plan, but we need a viable product to build and economy for ourselves. What better way than to use one's talents to do so? Hip Hop has already proven to be profitable business, even during the days it was more conscious and positive.

    If more people do like AZ is doing, for example, and build their own website to sell their music, similar to iTunes, hip hop could grow even larger and profit the people. That would create a need for web & software designers as well as online security programmers and such. Control of our own product is paramount.
  • Skeratch
    Skeratch Members Posts: 1,395 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    How your going to get an Immortal Technique to agree with a Puff Daddy?
  • freshb651
    freshb651 Members Posts: 8,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2010
    "? ? cause it's hard to keep em' close together"-AZ
  • Moeskezli
    Moeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited October 2010
    JokerzWyld wrote: »
    It's a very broad plan, but we need a viable product to build and economy for ourselves. What better way than to use one's talents to do so? Hip Hop has already proven to be profitable business, even during the days it was more conscious and positive.

    If more people do like AZ is doing, for example, and build their own website to sell their music, similar to iTunes, hip hop could grow even larger and profit the people. That would create a need for web & software designers as well as online security programmers and such. Control of our own product is paramount.

    I do believe that this is Step One.

    I feel like the reason this shift hasn't been executed yet is because there hasn't been a viable framework presented as an alternative to the opportunistic/exploitative condition of our capitalistic society. It's a hard thing to reverse, but conspicuous consumption fuels the ignorance. I think it would be hard-pressed to try to seize our own product in the current state of mind because A) ? is getting money so who cares and B) ? want to get more money than the next ? . Using the black experience as an example, all of our movements have failed or strayed too far from the initial purpose because none were anti-capitalists. The Civil Rights movement just made way for a black middle class. If Hip-Hop is to unite it won't be under this current system.
  • UPTOWN
    UPTOWN Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 13,009 Regulator
    edited October 2010
    sionb55 wrote: »
    nah u just need a major artist who sells well (like tip, wayne or 50 cent) to go indie. if theres some1 willing to pay for a product then u can distribute goods. thing is tho, ? need to find a way to make money selling their own music online cuz aint nobody gonna be buying CDs in 5 or 6 years maybe even sooner. i bet the labels mad as ? they didn't take advantage of the "peer to peer" networks wen they had the chance. they went thru all that trouble of supressing them only to have the ? blow up in their faces.... i wonder how ? will be in 10 years for the music industry...

    real talk i gotta agree w/ usmarin & his view on competition. now i can understand if 2 or 3 major artists did this but not if EVERYONE was on that ? . fact of the matter is u need competition. but still it'd be nice to see a predominantly black owned major label w just as much clout as BET, & Universal working together :(

    fam ... even if all the top selling artists rap and rnb go indie it will still end up like it is right now. when you look at it ... all these artists have their own label/publishing/etc .... the only time you see them on a major label is when they signed to that label pre maturely and are still under contract. the thing is, most artists will sign to a label so their advance money and the labels connections can support their early career. but then when they finally break out and go 2x plat etc ... hind sight becomes 20/20... because if they had known they were gonna blow they would have never signed to that major. most of those deals are like 5 to 7 years or 5 to 7 albums and even have extension clauses beyond that ... its easy to see a normal deal with a major get stretched out to ten years.

    if there is a high demand for your cd, say a million people are projected to buy it in two weeks. how can you distribute this yourself?? you need a market place for people to go get it... people are not gonna send you the money and let you mail them the album like an ebay transaction. and even if they did, good luck to your and your peeps mailing off a million cds in a week or so to make sure all your fans get their ? in a timely manner LOL .....the fact is ... you need to have your cd at wal mart, fye, and best buy if you are jay z or alicia keys or kanye west. that is your distribution, the companies who see to it that your product is placed in these stores at the right time and make sure you are visible in the market place. these companies are basically fraternal at this point ... ? is a monopoly. you would literally have to open stores in malls all across the US and have trucks pick up and deliver your cd's and merchandise. because there is no way in hell their letting you in. im sure that jay Z and all them cats tried it before. cuzzo..... just because alot of people want your album doesnt mean you have the means to get it to them.

    selling entire albums online requires a new format that cant be bootlegged ... like a file type that is only accepted by the software that allows you to listen to it. then, this format has to be universally accepted and available before hand, in car and home stereos, PC's and smart phones and "mp3" players so that when they buy your album they can listen to it anyway where they want just like CD's and MP#'s. even if cds arent around in the near future they will be replaced by some other form of hardware like a usb memory stick type deal. this has to be or the distributors and labels are out of business. which they aint gonna let happen ... you gotta take it from them while they scratch, kick, claw, and bite to keep their livelyhood

    the competition will still be there ... just because you are doing business together doesnt take away rivalry ... look at the nfl, nba, boxing etc ... hell look at universal and clear channel or interscope and def jam or columbia
  • UPTOWN
    UPTOWN Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 13,009 Regulator
    edited October 2010
    Skeratch wrote: »
    How your going to get an Immortal Technique to agree with a Puff Daddy?

    its not about that .... its having a vehicle that everyone can use to sell their product .... nothing will change really, it just that we would own it and music would be much better. its literally like telling the artists "if you make better music i will give you 100% control and more money" tell waka flocka that ? i garauntee you he start spitting flames LOL
  • Skeratch
    Skeratch Members Posts: 1,395 ✭✭
    edited October 2010
    its not about that .... its having a vehicle that everyone can use to sell their product .... nothing will change really, it just that we would own it and music would be much better. its literally like telling the artists "if you make better music i will give you 100% control and more money" tell waka flocka that ? i garauntee you he start spitting flames LOL

    Ah, cool. I see now. I was thinking more about ideology than some kind of distribution system.

    lol @ waka spitting flames.