Sigmund Freud Theorized that Moses was a Pharaoh

anthony7q
anthony7q Members Posts: 782
edited November 2010 in R & R (Religion and Race)
Moses and Monotheism
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Moses and Monotheism, 1939 by Sigmund Freud, ISBN 978-0394700144 is a book where Freud hypothesizes that Moses was not Jewish, but actually born into Ancient Egyptian nobility and was perhaps a follower of Akhenaten, an ancient Egyptian monotheist, or perhaps Akhenaten himself. The book consists of three parts and is an extension of Freud's work on psychoanalytic theory as a means of generating hypotheses about historical events. Freud had similarly employed psychoanalytic theory to history in his much earlier work, Totem and Taboo.

http://achanjati.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/akhenaten1.jpgakhenaten1.jpg

In Moses and Monotheism, Freud contradicts the Biblical story of Moses with his own retelling of events claiming that Moses only led his close followers into freedom during an unstable period in Egyptian history after Akhenaten and that they subsequently killed Moses in rebellion and later combined with another monotheistic tribe in Midian based on a volcanic ? . Freud explains that years after the murder of Moses, the rebels regretted their action thus forming the concept of the Messiah as a hope for the return of Moses as the Saviour of the Israelites. Freud said that the guilt from the murder of Moses is inherited through the generations; this guilt then drives the Jews to religion to make them feel better. Most historians since the 1960s reject the legitimacy of Psychohistory

Excerpt from book- http://www.archive.org/stream/mosesandmonothei032233mbp/mosesandmonothei032233mbp_djvu.txt

Part I
MOSES AN EGYPTIAN

To deny a people the man whom it praises as
the greatest of its sons is not a deed to be under-
taken light-heartedly especially by one belong-
ing to that people. No consideration, however,
will move rne to set aside truth in favour
of supposed national interests. Moreover, the
elucidation of the mere facts of the problem may
be expected to deepen our insight into the
situation with which they are concerned.

The man Moses, the liberator of his people, who
gave them their religion and their laws, belonged
to an age so remote that the preliminary question
arises whether he was an historical person or a
legendary figure. If he lived, his time was the
thirteenth or fourteenth century B.C.; we have
no word of him but from the Holy Books and
the written traditions of the Jews. Although
the decision lacks final historical certainty, the
great majority of historians have expressed the
opinion that Moses did live and that the exodus
from Egypt, led by him, did in fact take place.



12 MOSES AND MONOTHEISM

It has been maintained with good reason that
the later history of Israel could not be understood
if this were not admitted. Science to-day has
become much more cautious and deals much
more leniently with tradition than it did in the
early days of historical investigation.

What first attracts our interest in the person of
Moses is his name, which is written Mosche in
Hebrew. One may well ask: Where does it
come from ? What does it mean ? As is well
known, the story in Exodus, Chapter ii, already
answers this question. There we learn that the
Egyptian princess who saved the babe from the
waters of the Nile gave him his name, adding the
etymological explanation: because I drew him
out of the water. But this explanation is obviously
inadequate. " The biblical interpretation of the
name ' He that was drawn out of the water 5 "
thus an author of the Judisches Lexikon 1 "is folk
etymology; the active Hebrew form itself of the
name (Mosche can at best mean only ' the
drawer out 5 ) cannot be reconciled with this
solution." This argument can be supported by
two further reflections : first, that it is nonsensical
to credit an Egyptian princess with a knowledge
of Hebrew etymology, and, secondly, that the
water from which the child was drawn was most
probably not the water of the Nile.

1 Judisches Lexikon, founded by Herlitz und Kirschner, Bd. IV,
1930, Jiidischer Verlag, Berlin.

Comments

  • anthony7q
    anthony7q Members Posts: 782
    edited November 2010
    http://photo.goodreads.com/books/1171401172l/97743.jpg97743.jpg

    More excerpts
    MOSES AN EGYPTIAN 13

    On the other hand the suggestion has long been
    made and by many different people that the name
    Moses derives from the Egyptian vocabulary.
    Instead of citing all the authors who have voiced
    this opinion I shall quote a passage from a recent
    work by Breasted, 1 an author whose History of
    Egypt is regarded as authoritative. "It is
    important to notice that his name, Moses, was
    Egyptian. It is simply the Egyptian word ' mose '
    meaning * child/ and is an abridgement of a
    fuller form of such names as ' Amen -mose '
    meaning c Amon-a-child 5 or ' Ptah-mose, 5 mean-
    ing c Ptah -a -child, 5 these forms themselves being
    likewise abbreviations for the complete form
    * Amon-(has-given)-a child 5 or Ptah -(has -given) -
    a -child. 5 The abbreviation ' child 5 early became
    a convenient rapid form for the cumbrous full
    name, and the name Mose, c child, 5 is not un-
    common on the Egyptian monuments. The father
    of Moses without doubt prefixed to his son 5 s name
    that of an Egyptian ? like Amon or Ptah, and
    this divine name was gradually lost in current
    usage, till the boy was called ' Mose. 5 (The final
    s is an addition drawn from the Greek translation
    of the Old Testament. It is riot in the Hebrew,
    which has ' mosheh 5 ). 55 I have given this
    passage literally and am by no means prepared
    to share the responsibility for its details. I am
    a little surprised, however, that Breasted in

    1 The Dawn of Conscience, London, 1934, p. 350.

    Let us return to the two families in the myth.
    As we know, on the level of analytic interpreta-
    tion they are identical. On a mythical level they
    are distinguished as the noble and the humble
    family. With an historical person to whom the
    myth has become attached there is, however, a
    third level, that of reality. One of the families is
    the real one, the one into which the great man
    was really born and in which he was brought up.
    The other is fictitious, invented by the myth in
    pursuance of its own motives. As a rule the real
    family corresponds with the humble one, the
    noble family with the fictitious one. In the case
    of Moses something seemed to be different. And
    here the new point of view may perhaps bring
    some illumination. It is that the first family,
    the one from which the babe is exposed to danger,
    is in all comparable cases the fictitious one; the
    second family, however, by which the hero is
    adopted and in which he grows up is his real one.
    If we have the courage to accept this statement
    as a general truth to which the Moses legend also
    is subject, then we suddenly see our way clear.
    Moses is an Egyptian probably of noble origin
    whom the myth undertakes to transform into a
    Jew. And that would be our conclusion!
  • streetmason
    streetmason Members Posts: 75
    edited November 2010
  • anthony7q
    anthony7q Members Posts: 782
    edited November 2010
    2504663521_2c641e3ee3.jpg


    Thus E. Meyer in Die Mosessagen und die Leviten, Berliner
    Sitzber. 1905: " The name Mose is probably the name Pinchas in
    the priest dynasty of Silo . . . without a doubt Egyptian. This
    does not prove however that these dynasties were of Egyptian
    origin, but it proves that they had relations with Egypt." (p. 651 .)
    One may well ask what kind of relations one is to imagine.

    A strange fact in the history of the Egyptian
    religion, which was recognized and appraised
    relatively late, opens up another point of view.
    It is still possible that the religion Moses gave to
    his Jewish people was yet his own, an Egyptian
    religion though not the Egyptian one.

    In the glorious Eighteenth Dynasty, when
    Egypt became for the first time a world power,
    a young Pharaoh ascended the throne about
    1 375 B.C., who first called himself Amenhotep (IV)
    like his father, but later on changed his name
    and not only his name. This king undertook



    IF MOSES WAS AN EGYPTIAN 35

    to force upon his subjects a new religion, one
    contrary to their ancient traditions and to all
    their familiar habitsXIt was a strict monotheisn*,
    the first attempt of its kind in the history of the
    world as far as we know and religious intoler-
    ance, which was foreign to antiquity before this
    and for long after, was inevitably born with the
    belief in one ? . But Amenhotep's reign lasted
    only for seventeen years; very soon after his
    death in 1358 the new religion was swept away
    and the memory of the heretic king proscribed.
    From the ruins of his new capital which he had
    built and dedicated to his ? , and from the
    inscriptions in the rock tombs belonging to it, we
    derive the little knowledge we possess of him.
    Everything we can learn about this remarkable,
    indeed unique, person is worthy of the greatest
    interest. 1
  • anthony7q
    anthony7q Members Posts: 782
    edited November 2010
    Young-Ice wrote: »
    this is too long to read. nobody likes reading over the comp

    Sigmund Freud believed that Moses from the bible was an Egyptian King (also known as Pharaoh) and not a Hebrew/Jew.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
    i read that book

    its been debunked

    freud didn't know much about history

    or psychology, for that matter
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010

    freud didn't know much about history

    or psychology, for that matter

    So they stopped teaching Freud in psych courses?
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
    So they stopped teaching Freud in psych courses?

    they started teaching that he was wrong about pretty much everything
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    they started teaching that he was wrong about pretty much everything

    Do they have anyone else they use to represent the foundation of psychotherapy?
  • DarcSkies
    DarcSkies Members Posts: 13,791 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Do they have anyone else they use to represent the foundation of psychotherapy?
    Cavemen are the foundation of the wheel. But you wouldnt want one designing one that fits your car though.

    Freud has pretty much been hailed for starting the process but...most of his theories are only taught to show that they are wrong.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Darxwell wrote: »
    Cavemen are the foundation of the wheel. But you wouldnt want one designing one that fits your car though.

    Freud has pretty much been hailed for starting the process but...most of his theories are only taught to show that they are wrong.

    So who do they credit for the correct theories? Or is it just anonymous discoveries that are now taught?
  • bless the child
    bless the child Members Posts: 5,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    LMAO at Sigmund Freud getting sonned in here.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    i read that book

    its been debunked

    freud didn't know much about history

    or psychology, for that matter

    Jung >>> Freud

    Freud knew how to manipulate people pretty well though. Watch "Century of the Self"
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    Jung >>> Freud

    Freud knew how to manipulate people pretty well though. Watch "Century of the Self"

    To be fair it was more his nephew, Edward Bernays, who brought his ideas to America and used it manipulate people.
  • Jay Pee
    Jay Pee Members Posts: 761
    edited November 2010
    Freud exposed.....the mainstream still follows him still wake up docile people.
  • Alkindus
    Alkindus Members Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    This is very plausibel, I have posted this ? before but for those that are familair with african cultures/civilisations know that dozens of (modern day) cultures are directly connected to 'ancient egypt' (langueges/traditions etc). anno 2010 the biggest berber culture in africa( the 'amazigh' which means 'free people') called themselves that way after the first berber farao came to power and freed them(this happened 3000 years ago)

    So in other words their are millions of people that have been calling themselves 'the free people' that mostly live east of egypt/outside egypt for 3000 years. The farao that freed the people lived a very similair life to that of moses(which was written down CENTURIES later, the story of moses was not written 3200/3000 years ago)

    So.....we all know that egypt/babylon civilisations had huge influence on the abrahamic faiths. there is no historical/archeological evidence of an exodus/moses etc but we do have masses and living proof of millions and millions of people that once lived in egypt, still use their own karakters/alphabet/customs etc but were freed by a farao and anno 2010 (or allmost the year 3000 by their calender) the biggest berber tribe in all of africa
  • anthony7q
    anthony7q Members Posts: 782
    edited November 2010
    Egyptian Tomb in Israel Volume 50 Number 1, January/February 1997
    by Andrew Kasdan

    This passage tomb dating to ca. 3000 B.C. discovered at Tel Halif in Israel's Negev Desert is similar to early Egyptian tombs. (Photo by Z. Radovan, courtesy of T.E. Levy) [LARGER IMAGE, 52K]


    The discovery of an Egyptian-style tomb at Tel Halif in the Negev Desert suggests an Egyptian colonial presence in southern Israel ca. 3000 B.C. Most burials in the region are in caves or shaft tombs attributed to the Canaanites, but this one, built during the Early Bronze 1B period (3300-3000 B.C.), is typical of contemporary tombs in Egypt, according to excavators Thomas Levy of the University of California, San Diego, and David Alon of the Joe Alon Regional Research Center in Israel. A 30-foot-long passageway descends to the burial chamber, which is about 26 feet long, 16 feet wide, and nine and one-half feet high. Within the dome-shaped chamber is a plastered stone platform on which the skeleton of a woman was found. About 25 years old when she died, she was found in a fetal position facing east, characteristic of Egyptian burials.

    That an Egyptian was buried at Tel Halif "gives us evidence of a full-blown Egyptian colony in Israel right after the crystallization of the first Egyptian state," says Levy. "Egyptians were known to have very profound and elaborate belief systems about the afterlife and what was required to get there. One of these requirements was to die and be properly entombed on Egyptian soil. I think it's very likely that this part of southern Israel was considered part of greater Egypt during this period."Egyptian ceramics, seal impressions, and bread molds found at Tel Halif support an Egyptian occupation. Among these artifacts is a potsherd engraved with the serekh, or sign, of King Narmer, who is believed to have united Upper and Lower Egypt between 3050 and 3000 B.C.