Mmmmm veggie burgers

2

Comments

  • Rock_Well
    Rock_Well Members Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    The BIble says those that choose to eat veggies only are weak
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited November 2010
    well, since we are posting links...read this one (yeah it's from PETA but it's information still holds strong)...

    http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-living/The-Natural-Human-Diet.aspx

    This one too...

    http://healthat7.blogspot.com/2009/06/eating-meat-is-not-natural-our-bodies.html

    I don't think humans are naturally designed to eat meat, and with all the side effects of meat it is obviously an unhealthy choice. I'm not saying it's right or wrong to eat it, because it's neither. If you do eat it, it should be in moderation. I think most people don't eat meat for "moral" reasons, others for health. You definitely don't NEED meat to be healthy or consume a healthy diet.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    What's the point of being a vegetarian?

    for one animals with flat molars are herbivores. for two our long intestines make the proper digestion of meat impossible. eating flesh is amoral, unhealthy and destructive. for your consideration....




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    UN urges global move to meat and dairy-free diet

    Lesser consumption of animal products is necessary to save the world from the worst impacts of climate change, UN report says


    A global shift towards a vegan diet is vital to save the world from hunger, fuel poverty and the worst impacts of climate change, a UN report said today.

    As the global population surges towards a predicted 9.1 billion people by 2050, western tastes for diets rich in meat and dairy products are unsustainable, says the report from United Nations Environment Programme's (UNEP) international panel of sustainable resource management.

    It says: "Impacts from agriculture are expected to increase substantially due to population growth increasing consumption of animal products. Unlike fossil fuels, it is difficult to look for alternatives: people have to eat. A substantial reduction of impacts would only be possible with a substantial worldwide diet change, away from animal products."

    Professor Edgar Hertwich, the lead author of the report, said: "Animal products cause more damage than [producing] construction minerals such as sand or cement, plastics or metals. Biomass and crops for animals are as damaging as [burning] fossil fuels."

    The recommendation follows advice last year that a vegetarian diet was better for the planet from Lord Nicholas Stern, former adviser to the Labour government on the economics of climate change. Dr Rajendra Pachauri, chair of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), has also urged people to observe one meat-free day a week to curb carbon emissions.

    The panel of experts ranked products, resources, economic activities and transport according to their environmental impacts. Agriculture was on a par with fossil fuel consumption because both rise rapidly with increased economic growth, they said.

    Ernst von Weizsaecker, an environmental scientist who co-chaired the panel, said: "Rising affluence is triggering a shift in diets towards meat and dairy products - livestock now consumes much of the world's crops and by inference a great deal of freshwater, fertilisers and pesticides."

    Both energy and agriculture need to be "decoupled" from economic growth because environmental impacts rise roughly 80% with a doubling of income, the report found.

    Achim Steiner, the UN under-secretary general and executive director of the UNEP, said: "Decoupling growth from environmental degradation is the number one challenge facing governments in a world of rising numbers of people, rising incomes, rising consumption demands and the persistent challenge of poverty alleviation."

    The panel, which drew on numerous studies including the Millennium ecosystem assessment, cites the following pressures on the environment as priorities for governments around the world: climate change, habitat change, wasteful use of nitrogen and phosphorus in fertilisers, over-exploitation of fisheries, forests and other resources, invasive species, unsafe drinking water and sanitation, lead exposure, urban air pollution and occupational exposure to particulate matter.

    Agriculture, particularly meat and dairy products, accounts for 70% of global freshwater consumption, 38% of the total land use and 19% of the world's greenhouse gas emissions, says the report, which has been launched to coincide with UN World Environment day on Saturday.

    Last year the UN's Food and Agriculture Organisation said that food production would have to increase globally by 70% by 2050 to feed the world's surging population. The panel says that efficiency gains in agriculture will be overwhelmed by the expected population growth.

    Prof Hertwich, who is also the director of the industrial ecology programme at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, said that developing countries – where much of this population growth will take place – must not follow the western world's pattern of increasing consumption: "Developing countries should not follow our model. But it's up to us to develop the technologies in, say, renewable energy or irrigation methods."

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/jun/02/un-report-meat-free-diet/print
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Also from me being an athlete I know there is no way in hell I could go out and play without eating meat.

    Being a vegan you get no creatinine which means energy and building muscle is slowed dramatically, little protein, decreased vitamins and minerals. Obviously you could take pills to get those but it aint the same.

    You are either grossly misinformed or purposely lying. Creatine can be created by your livers synthesis of amino acids from plants. ALL YOU NEED is arginine, glycine, and methionine. These can be derived from non-animal sources.

    Little protein????

    Serving Protein (g)
    Wheat Gluten (Seitan) 3 oz. 22.5
    Tofu 1/2 cup 10-20
    Veggie Dog/Burger 1 6-18
    Cooked Soybeans 1/2 cup 14.3
    Texturized Soy Protein 1/2 cup 11
    Soymilk 1 cup 5-10
    Cooked Lentils 1/2 cup 8.9
    Peanut Butter 2 Tablespoons 8
    Cooked Chickpeas 1/2 cup 7.5
    Sunflower Seeds 2 Tablespoons 5

    How do large herbivores get large? Cows and elephants dont eat meat.

    http://www.soystache.com/sources_of_protein.htm

    The only vitamin that is missing from most vegans diets is B12. That can be had by way of nutritional yeast. Besides, when you cook meat you destroy most of the B12 in it anyway. And mineral content is more concentrated and bio-available in non-animal foods especially superfoods from the ocean such as kelp and spirulina. But to keep it real mineral content in either veggies or flesh depends on soil quality. Look it up
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    for one animals with flat molars are herbivores. for two our long intestines make the proper digestion of meat impossible. eating flesh is amoral, unhealthy and destructive. for your consideration....

    To add to this, it's not in our instinct to attack other animals. We don't naturally salivate at the sight of a cow or chicken. We HAVE to season and prepare our foods or run the risk of becoming seriously sick. As a baby we can't even eat meat.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    To add to this, it's not in our instinct to attack other animals. We don't naturally salivate at the sight of a cow or chicken. We HAVE to season and prepare our foods or run the risk of becoming seriously sick. As a baby we can't even eat meat.

    exactly. you gotta use plants and minerals to even make the taste of flesh tolerable
  • ra-mes1
    ra-mes1 Members Posts: 420 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Lang and Juda said most of what I was going to say. I used to be kind of a "vege-? " but have learned to chill. However, I will tell anyone that asks "why?" that I physically feel better without meat in my system and it is also a moral issue for me, mainly in the way meat is generated as a product for mass consumption. I think it devalues life. If someone I knew went hunting and gave thanks to the animal for giving its life, it wouldn't bother me. Personally, I can't/won't take another sentient being's life unless it's absoutely necessary. If I was lost in the woods for more than a day I would probably try to catch fish or even a rabbit since I know it would be edible, then go back to my "regularly scheduled program" when I no longer needed to do so for survival.

    And I know how to start a fire from scatch, skin and gut an animal (my father made me clean some stuff like rabbit and quail that he caught when I was a kid--I still have very vivid memories so I'm sure I would do reasonably OK) and bury the remains far away from me, so cooking wouldn't be an issue.
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    To add to this, it's not in our instinct to attack other animals. We don't naturally salivate at the sight of a cow or chicken. We HAVE to season and prepare our foods or run the risk of becoming seriously sick. As a baby we can't even eat meat.

    to add to that, Factory- farm fed animals are dipped in, and sprayed with many toxic compounds. they are injected with dyes so that their meat and yolks appear to be healthy. pesticides are also injected to ? worms in their stomachs. cattle,pigs,
    and other livestock are often doused with toxaphen to ? the parasites they breed in crowded, filthy conditions. toxaphen is in the same family with DDT,dieldrin and PCBs. in most microscopic doses, it produces cancer, birth defects, causes bones to dissolve in lab animals. It is used every day in ameriKKKA on animals whose flesh ameriKKKans eat
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    exactly. you gotta use plants and minerals to even make the taste of flesh tolerable

    whats up, how you been?
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    You are either grossly misinformed or purposely lying. Creatine can be created by your livers synthesis of amino acids from plants. ALL YOU NEED is arginine, glycine, and methionine. These can be derived from non-animal sources.

    Little protein????

    Serving Protein (g)
    Wheat Gluten (Seitan) 3 oz. 22.5
    Tofu 1/2 cup 10-20
    Veggie Dog/Burger 1 6-18
    Cooked Soybeans 1/2 cup 14.3
    Texturized Soy Protein 1/2 cup 11
    Soymilk 1 cup 5-10
    Cooked Lentils 1/2 cup 8.9
    Peanut Butter 2 Tablespoons 8
    Cooked Chickpeas 1/2 cup 7.5
    Sunflower Seeds 2 Tablespoons 5

    How do large herbivores get large? Cows and elephants dont eat meat.

    http://www.soystache.com/sources_of_protein.htm

    The only vitamin that is missing from most vegans diets is B12. That can be had by way of nutritional yeast. Besides, when you cook meat you destroy most of the B12 in it anyway. And mineral content is more concentrated and bio-available in non-animal foods especially superfoods from the ocean such as kelp and spirulina. But to keep it real mineral content in either veggies or flesh depends on soil quality. Look it up

    DAAAAMN.......I feel almost guilty for eating meat now. I'll keep in mind what you just said.
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Let's all keep in mind that dietary choices do not define ones character.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    whats up, how you been?

    Great. Tryinmg to build on some major moves in the Midwest. You?
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    shootemwon wrote: »
    Let's all keep in mind that dietary choices do not define ones character.

    ? . You wouldnt say that about a cannibal.
  • melanated khemist
    melanated khemist Members Posts: 608 ✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    Great. Tryinmg to build on some major moves in the Midwest. You?

    learning the self publishing game & reading.

    keep in touch on your midwest moves. i will support... peace
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    ? . You wouldnt say that about a cannibal.

    That depends.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    I knew Judah was bound to come in here and school this ? .
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    You are either grossly misinformed or purposely lying. Creatine can be created by your livers synthesis of amino acids from plants. ALL YOU NEED is arginine, glycine, and methionine. These can be derived from non-animal sources.

    Little protein????

    Serving Protein (g)
    Wheat Gluten (Seitan) 3 oz. 22.5
    Tofu 1/2 cup 10-20
    Veggie Dog/Burger 1 6-18
    Cooked Soybeans 1/2 cup 14.3
    Texturized Soy Protein 1/2 cup 11
    Soymilk 1 cup 5-10
    Cooked Lentils 1/2 cup 8.9
    Peanut Butter 2 Tablespoons 8
    Cooked Chickpeas 1/2 cup 7.5
    Sunflower Seeds 2 Tablespoons 5

    How do large herbivores get large? Cows and elephants dont eat meat.

    http://www.soystache.com/sources_of_protein.htm

    The only vitamin that is missing from most vegans diets is B12. That can be had by way of nutritional yeast. Besides, when you cook meat you destroy most of the B12 in it anyway. And mineral content is more concentrated and bio-available in non-animal foods especially superfoods from the ocean such as kelp and spirulina. But to keep it real mineral content in either veggies or flesh depends on soil quality. Look it up

    Misinformed I guess, props on this.

    I tried being all vegan and felt slow and had energy but not as much as usual, I talked to the teams nutritionist and that's what he told me, that I either had to eat a lot more vegetables and fruits or include meat in my diet and not have to eat as much. I chose meat and my body feels great. As for soybeans I couldn't eat alot of those because the iron was so high, I was taking a muscle building supplement and a fat burning supplement and eating more soy meant I had to stop taking those.

    Obviously we won't agree, i think eating in moderation is fine and will believe it until personally my health deteriorates from it and I don't think it's amoral at all, but I do appreciate the information. Props on the link also.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Misinformed I guess, props on this.

    I tried being all vegan and felt slow and had energy but not as much as usual, I talked to the teams nutritionist and that's what he told me, that I either had to eat a lot more vegetables and fruits or include meat in my diet and not have to eat as much. I chose meat and my body feels great. As for soybeans I couldn't eat alot of those because the iron was so high, I was taking a muscle building supplement and a fat burning supplement and eating more soy meant I had to stop taking those.

    Obviously we won't agree, i think eating in moderation is fine and will believe it until personally my health deteriorates from it and I don't think it's amoral at all, but I do appreciate the information. Props on the link also.

    No prob. Yeah, you gotta really have somebody really informed to walk you through being vegan or you will be malnourished. Its not about just eating plants; its about putting together the right combos for nutrition and learning how to cook/ or prepare meals properly so the ? actually tastes good. Its not for everybody but after 14 years I cant see any other way for me. When I get a chance to get a bio-dynamic farm going Im probably going to be an all raw vegan. I did it for a year and I felt like the Hulk.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    especially the filthy pig

    to add to that, Factory- farm fed animals are dipped in, and sprayed with many toxic compounds. they are injected with dyes so that their meat and yolks appear to be healthy. pesticides are also injected to ? worms in their stomachs. cattle,pigs,
    and other livestock are often doused with toxaphen to ? the parasites they breed in crowded, filthy conditions. toxaphen is in the same family with DDT,dieldrin and PCBs. in most microscopic doses, it produces cancer, birth defects, causes bones to dissolve in lab animals.

    Why are pigs so nasty?

    Fruits and veggies are sprayed with crazy stuff too.

    oliverlang wrote: »
    If I saw a bag of veggies and fruit by the side of the road, I'm not tempted to eat those either. I don't salivate at the sight of picked fruits and veggies nor do I daydream about digging up potatoes or pulling carrots. But for real, that was a pretty dumb intro to an otherwise interesting article.
    judahxulu wrote: »
    for one animals with flat molars are herbivores.
    Why do we have eye teeth then? Our mouth is more like a tiger's than it is a cows.


    90% of the worlds soy is genetically modified at this point, so it's probably out of the question to consume.


    Does anyone know the moral reasons why people don't eat meat?
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Why are pigs so nasty?




    Why do we have eye teeth then? Our mouth is more like a tiger's than it is a cows.


    90% of the worlds soy is genetically modified at this point, so it's probably out of the question to consume.


    Does anyone know the moral reasons why people don't eat meat?

    The same reasons other animals like horses and camels do. And our mouth is nothing like a tigers.
    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://ezinspirations.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/Go%2520Green/tiger%2520teeth.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bearingspics.com/q/tiger%2Bbearing%2Bteeth/&h=478&w=468&sz=97&tbnid=grVhNeo2eoRyMM:&tbnh=227&tbnw=222&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtiger%2Bteeth&zoom=1&q=tiger+teeth&hl=en&usg=__gOyme3DUBGzvAYjj9zql9QPA-Ok=&sa=X&ei=wzDrTML2JoT48Ab-tZGfAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCEQ9QEwAA

    Actually our teeth look more like cow teeth

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pour-favor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/cow-teeth-300x225.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pour-favor.com/2009/04/03/friday-wine-news-health-religion-technology-travel/&h=225&w=300&sz=24&tbnid=t7nJX6T_UyKIOM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcow%2Bteeth&zoom=1&q=cow+teeth&hl=en&usg=__QJeEUJxBVaY9Sv7EL4ULOyWEIWw=&sa=X&ei=7jDrTKmDBMOB8gb9ttVa&sqi=2&ved=0CB8Q9QEwAg
    The eye teeth we have are not the same length or sharpness as the canine teeth of carnivores. Bite into a living chicken or cow and see how that works for you. Not very well.....
    As far as the soy figures..thats a falsehood. 90% of soy grown in the UNITED STATES is GMO. Most countries have strict legislation against that stuff. At any event, soy is best used in moderation unless soy isoflavones are needed to cure "female troubles:.


    Some of the moral objections to flesh consumption are the cruel conditions that exist in the meat industry, the simple fact that a sentient being had to die to feed you and some people directly link their health to their morality.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    judahxulu wrote: »
    The same reasons other animals like horses and camels do. And our mouth is nothing like a tigers.

    Actually our teeth look more like cow teeth
    Damn hey, look what happens when we listen to our mom sometimes. That's how she tricked me into eating meat.

    As far as the soy figures..thats a falsehood. 90% of soy grown in the UNITED STATES is GMO. Most countries have strict legislation against that stuff. At any event, soy is best used in moderation unless soy isoflavones are needed to cure "female troubles:.
    Nuh uhhh, on Food Inc or something, they were saying it's more like 90% world, corn too, genetically modified. And now 'natural' corn farms in Mexico are "being infected" by the plants. The GM are seeding and spreading.
    Some of the moral objections to flesh consumption are the cruel conditions that exist in the meat industry, the simple fact that a sentient being had to die to feed you and some people directly link their health to their morality.

    But there are other meat eaters, if they are sentient why aren't they under the same killing law as us sentient beings?
  • wtruckc
    wtruckc Members Posts: 9
    edited November 2010
    You are either grossly misinformed or purposely lying. Creatine can be created by your livers synthesis of amino acids from plants. ALL YOU NEED is arginine, glycine, and methionine. These can be derived from non-animal sources.

    Little protein????

    Serving Protein (g)
    Wheat Gluten (Seitan) 3 oz. 22.5
    Tofu 1/2 cup 10-20
    Veggie Dog/Burger 1 6-18
    Cooked Soybeans 1/2 cup 14.3
    Texturized Soy Protein 1/2 cup 11
    Soymilk 1 cup 5-10
    Cooked Lentils 1/2 cup 8.9
    Peanut Butter 2 Tablespoons 8
    Cooked Chickpeas 1/2 cup 7.5
    Sunflower Seeds 2 Tablespoons 5

    How do large herbivores get large? Cows and elephants dont eat meat.

    http://www.soystache.com/sources_of_protein.htm

    The only vitamin that is missing from most vegans diets is B12. That can be had by way of nutritional yeast. Besides, when you cook meat you destroy most of the B12 in it anyway. And mineral content is more concentrated and bio-available in non-animal foods especially superfoods from the ocean such as kelp and spirulina. But to keep it real mineral content in either veggies or flesh depends on soil quality. Look it up

    glad somebody in here has it right.
  • oliverlang
    oliverlang Members Posts: 593
    edited November 2010
    Our mouth is more like a tiger's than it is a cows.

    What?

    Cow teeth...

    pp2e_teeth.jpg

    Tiger teeth...

    tiger-teeth.jpg

    human teeth...

    174252-1.png

    I usually agree with your posts...but yeah...right now you're trippin' lol.
  • judahxulu
    judahxulu Members Posts: 3,988 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    Damn hey, look what happens when we listen to our mom sometimes. That's how she tricked me into eating meat.


    Nuh uhhh, on Food Inc or something, they were saying it's more like 90% world, corn too, genetically modified. And now 'natural' corn farms in Mexico are "being infected" by the plants. The GM are seeding and spreading.



    But there are other meat eaters, if they are sentient why aren't they under the same killing law as us sentient beings?

    Yeah if Food Incs figures are true thats a shame. Me and my folks fall up under that 10% so Im glad. That ? with the Mexican corn is extra ? . BTW, "The Future of Food" is a little more in depth than "Food INC" IMO.

    And to answer our question yes and no. The law is ? and be killed. Buts its worse for sentient beings equipped with the faculty of conscience.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2010
    oliverlang wrote: »
    ...right now you're trippin' lol.

    I never questioned the validity of that idea until now even though I've seen images of tiger's and cows teeth at least a million times. That was something my mom said to us all the time.