I just finished reading Che Guevara´s biography and it touched my heart.

24

Comments

  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    you make that ? sound like nothing...he was killing people for ? reasons...plus the fact that he was anti-capitalism yet did ? like wore Rolex watches (he had one taken from him and taken by the Bolovian president if I'm not mistaken after he was executed) while talking about revolution made some people do a double take

    ? .Dude never had a rolex.And who said he killed people for ? reasons.You gotta be kidding me.Where´s the proof in that.And the proof that he was rocking a rolex.Nobody ever mentioned a rolex ever in any book nor fil or documentary.Let´s say he was rocking one doubt.What does that gotta do with capitalism.So because he rode in american cars he was a traitor too lol.? rolex is the best watch in the world.Dude was fighting in the woods.He needed the best ? .? can´t know what time it is by looking at the sun.

    I can´t even belive ? would try to ? on dude.Especially because he didn´t try to take any money from the revolutions he made.

    That rolex story sounds like b.s.

    Since they cut his hand off that would be a known story.
  • blakfyahking
    blakfyahking Members Posts: 15,785 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    ? .Dude never had a rolex.And who said he killed people for ? reasons.You gotta be kidding me.Where´s the proof in that.And the proof that he was rocking a rolex.Nobody ever mentioned a rolex ever in any book nor fil or documentary.Let´s say he was rocking one doubt.What does that gotta do with capitalism.So because he rode in american cars he was a traitor too lol.? rolex is the best watch in the world.Dude was fighting in the woods.He needed the best ? .? can´t know what time it is by looking at the sun.

    I can´t even belive ? would try to ? on dude.Especially because he didn´t try to take any money from the revolutions he made.

    That rolex story sounds like b.s.

    Since they cut his hand off that would be a known story.

    damn champ you caping for this ? kinda hard

    all men are fallible

    I respect any historical figure's story, but you have to take all that ? with a grain of salt

    authors dilute the true story when they write ? cause things are clouded by their own perspective

    no person can truly be unbiased.............so I wouldn't be surprised if Che has flaws like anybody else :shrugs
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    ? .Dude never had a rolex.And who said he killed people for ? reasons.You gotta be kidding me.Where´s the proof in that.And the proof that he was rocking a rolex.Nobody ever mentioned a rolex ever in any book nor fil or documentary.Let´s say he was rocking one doubt.What does that gotta do with capitalism.So because he rode in american cars he was a traitor too lol.? rolex is the best watch in the world.Dude was fighting in the woods.He needed the best ? .? can´t know what time it is by looking at the sun.

    I can´t even belive ? would try to ? on dude.Especially because he didn´t try to take any money from the revolutions he made.

    That rolex story sounds like b.s.

    Since they cut his hand off that would be a known story.

    cheGMT.jpg anything else you want to dispute without reseaching first?...and yes he was murking people who he simply "thought' were dissenters...i'm not ? on him in any way...I'm just pointing out why some have an issue with him
  • letstrythisagain
    letstrythisagain Members Posts: 427
    edited December 2010
    blank.. wrote: »
    ? a motorbike gotta do with Che Guevara?

    lmao______
  • CaliGuerillaBlazin
    CaliGuerillaBlazin Members Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Che has flaws like any other man.

    He's surely been a G and fought the good fight tho.

    I would like to believe, as I'm sure he did, his actions were necessary during the time of the Revolution. There will always be an arguement tho, I wasn't there so idk, I think some of it was also paranoia, it was war time. Cuba has its share of salty characters but I believe Cuba as a whole became better as a result of the Revolution. The poor were no longer shutouts, no more prostitution or gambling as a result of the Mob, Batista was out.

    Originally the Revolution almost never happened. Only sixteen of the eighty-two men who landed from the Granma(Original crew of Cubans including Fidel who landed and began the Revolution) survived the battle of Alegría del Pío and the army’s subsequent pursuit.

    He was also a cheater and left his 1st wife after falling in love during the Revolution.

    Never knew about the rolex but Id rock that ? in guerilla warfare instead of a casio or something ? , I cant fault em unless the ? was diamond encrusted.

    He was a martyr and real ? imo. Did more than I would but some of his actions and words do serve as an inspiration. He's no different from MLK or Malcom, except he took extreme action and kept it gutta when he didn't have to, he was a Dr. and came from a middle class but he did it for the people. He was like a violent Ghandi yo.
  • Lorenzo de Medici
    Lorenzo de Medici Members Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    History always views people through rose colored glasses.

    Che Guevara was nothing more than another latin American would-be despot. Let's not aggrandize this man, and I won't try to trivialize him.

    Fact: There is a correlation between democracy and quality of life.
    Fact: The marxist policies he would have implemented would have failed miserably. Only place that ISI and mercantilism work for an extended period of time was Mexico. Even theirs was not as extreme as Che's.

    I used to fall for this ? , until i read not only about Che and other revolutionaries, but about Latin America as a whole. It is an area rife with autocratic rule regardless of populist, communist, fascist, juntas, doesn't matter. They all ruled the people with a heavy hand, were all corrupt, and all of them - regardless of intent and motives - did not help their people(barring very few exceptions).
  • Lorenzo de Medici
    Lorenzo de Medici Members Posts: 5,739 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Che has flaws like any other man.

    He's surely been a G and fought the good fight tho.

    I would like to believe, as I'm sure he did, his actions were necessary during the time of the Revolution. There will always be an arguement tho, I wasn't there so idk, I think some of it was also paranoia, it was war time. Cuba has its share of salty characters but I believe Cuba as a whole became better as a result of the Revolution. The poor were no longer shutouts, no more prostitution or gambling as a result of the Mob, Batista was out.

    Originally the Revolution almost never happened. Only sixteen of the eighty-two men who landed from the Granma(Original crew of Cubans including Fidel who landed and began the Revolution) survived the battle of Alegría del Pío and the army’s subsequent pursuit.

    He was also a cheater and left his 1st wife after falling in love during the Revolution.

    Never knew about the rolex but Id rock that ? in guerilla warfare instead of a casio or something ? , I cant fault em unless the ? was diamond encrusted.

    He was a martyr and real ? imo. Did more than I would but some of his actions and words do serve as an inspiration. He's no different from MLK or Malcom, except he took extreme action and kept it gutta when he didn't have to, he was a Dr. and came from a middle class but he did it for the people. He was like a violent Ghandi yo.

    People talk like "the revolution" was a good thing. The Cuban people haven't been able to elect a leader for over 5 decades. They are basically still stuck in the 50's. Every people deserves to have a say in who rules them. Every people deserves to have a say in the creation of their public policy. Stop with the whole "down with the man" diatribe. The Cuban Revolution was one strong man over throwing a strong system, using the people as pawns. Castro didn't overthrow ? for the people, nor would have Che. You want proof? Wouldn't a man of the people want the people to have a say in their government? The point of communism is to have no government. Since the revolution Castro's had a socialist government and socialism is supposed to put society in a position over time to have true communism(no government, everyone shares everything) and it still hasn't happened. Castro is worth half a billion dollars while his people live off government subsidies. ? outta here with "the revolution". "The revolution" was the worst thing that could have happened to the Cuban people.
  • elzo69
    elzo69 Confirm Email Posts: 2,707 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    And that ? fled the Congo fyi anyway ? Battista was a puppet. But Cuba aint been ? since Fidel and etc... took it over so what was the point of the revolution again?
  • CaliGuerillaBlazin
    CaliGuerillaBlazin Members Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    "The revolution" was the worst thing that could have happened to the Cuban people.
    Now u need to ? with this cuz that is not true for all, the poor living in huts under miserable conditions along with people being persecuted by the Batista military dictatorship were the reason the Revolution happened. Some bettered(extreme poor) and some worsened(Upper class elite) and I would agree as a whole Cuba suffered later on due to the departure of Che and the dictatorship rule of Castro.

    My belief is that originally the Revolution did stand for something. I will agree that Castro has used the people as a ? and Cuba now is nowhere near what Castro or Che had envisioned during the time.The movement literally launched a guerilla campaign and overthrew a ? government, they get props for that.

    Ive read Che's Biography(500+page Lee Anderson joint) and his diary of the revolution. I dont agree with everything Che has said and sometimes I do question his thinking and I also believe he didnt know exactly wtf he was doing but in his mind he was doing the right thing.

    Castro pimped a nation and threw em some healthcare and upgraded their education. I know ? aint all peachy in Cuba but it is what it is. If the U.S. government can't even take him out, he was handling his.The Revolution will forever be known in the mindset of the Cuban people for better or worse, definitely depends on who you ask.

    I aint gonna ? on Che he was a imperfect man but idk any concrete details to support some of the ? Ive heard where people paint him as a demon. I think above it all he was a human.

    "At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality... We must strive every day so that this love of living humanity will be transformed into actual deeds, into acts that serve as examples, as a moving force."-Che
  • CaliGuerillaBlazin
    CaliGuerillaBlazin Members Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    elzo69 wrote: »
    And that ? fled the Congo fyi anyway ? Battista was a puppet. But Cuba aint been ? since Fidel and etc... took it over so what was the point of the revolution again?

    Originally it sounded like a cool plan and it worked but it just seems like afterward they couldn't execute. Im not an adovocate for Fidel, I believe ? ultimately ended up in his favor more than the Cuban peoples but it could be worse that ? is still a Dictator tho. Problem is most the people who fought for the Revolution didn't survive it or much long after. Sad, actually how it all turned out. I'd be curious to know what would happen if it never took place. Would the mob still control Cuba and whatnot.
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    Now u need to ? with this cuz that is not true for all, the poor living in huts under miserable conditions along with people being persecuted by the Batista military dictatorship were the reason the Revolution happened. Some bettered(extreme poor) and some worsened(Upper class elite) and I would agree as a whole Cuba suffered later on due to the departure of Che and the dictatorship rule of Castro.

    My belief is that originally the Revolution did stand for something. I will agree that Castro has used the people as a ? and Cuba now is nowhere near what Castro or Che had envisioned during the time.The movement literally launched a guerilla campaign and overthrew a ? government, they get props for that.

    Ive read Che's Biography(500+page Lee Anderson joint) and his diary of the revolution. I dont agree with everything Che has said and sometimes I do question his thinking and I also believe he didnt know exactly wtf he was doing but in his mind he was doing the right thing.

    Castro pimped a nation and threw em some healthcare and upgraded their education. I know ? aint all peachy in Cuba but it is what it is. If the U.S. government can't even take him out, he was handling his.The Revolution will forever be known in the mindset of the Cuban people for better or worse, definitely depends on who you ask.

    I aint gonna ? on Che he was a imperfect man but idk any concrete details to support some of the ? Ive heard where people paint him as a demon. I think above it all he was a human.

    "At the risk of seeming ridiculous, let me say that the true revolutionary is guided by a great feeling of love. It is impossible to think of a genuine revolutionary lacking this quality... We must strive every day so that this love of living humanity will be transformed into actual deeds, into acts that serve as examples, as a moving force."-Che

    From what I've read and know from some of my friends family who was in Cuba or had/have family there, alot of people feel like Che took on the mind frame of "If you're not with me then ? you" but in the sense of he'd ? you or didn't care if someone else did...
  • blackrain
    blackrain Members, Moderators Posts: 27,269 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    Originally it sounded like a cool plan and it worked but it just seems like afterward they couldn't execute. Im not an adovocate for Fidel, I believe ? ultimately ended up in his favor more than the Cuban peoples but it could be worse that ? is still a Dictator tho. Problem is most the people who fought for the Revolution didn't survive it or much long after. Sad, actually how it all turned out. I'd be curious to know what would happen if it never took place. Would the mob still control Cuba and whatnot.

    the US would've only maintained that control for so long before another anti-US country came and helped out...with what the US was doing n Latin America during that time, hell they're still running ? in some countries, eventually something would've happened
  • CaliGuerillaBlazin
    CaliGuerillaBlazin Members Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    blackrain wrote: »
    From what I've read and know from some of my friends family who was in Cuba or had/have family there, alot of people feel like Che took on the mind frame of "If you're not with me then ? you" but in the sense of he'd ? you or didn't care if someone else did...

    Thats my basic understanding of it thanks. I dont necessarily agree with his mentality at the time because it definitely seems like he was on the tip ur either with the Revolution or a traitor like there is no middle ground. Im sure he killed some people based upon good reasoning and evidence, others I'm not so sure.
  • Conscious__Nkechi
    Conscious__Nkechi Members Posts: 6,110 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    J-GUTTA wrote: »
    The movie The Movie Motorcycle Diaries was dope too.

    I have the book which I usually find to be far better and affective than the movie.

    Sometimes a book can be phenomenal and the movie ends up lacking what the book itself delivered.
  • The Prime Minister
    The Prime Minister Members Posts: 2,883 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Don't believe the hype. Dude used to run forced labor camps and all types of ? ? .

    Capitalism FTW.

    50-dollar-bill-new-front-back(14).jpg
  • Cabana_Da_Don
    Cabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    ? there was no forced Camp.Volunters.? ´s confused.And by the way whoever was against the revolution and didn´t touch any weaponds could have left the island and gone to the states.Cuba and the U.S had a pact.Word to tony montana.
  • ThaChozenWun
    ThaChozenWun Members Posts: 9,390
    edited December 2010
    I love Che Guevara. But for as great as he was in leading a revolution he wasn't all that he's made out to be. He took down a dictator with no health insurance and helped put in a dictator with free health insurance.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    He took down a dictator with no health insurance and helped put in a dictator with free health insurance.
    this. for all the talk about the excellence of the revolution, people don't like to dwell on the fact that it's not like the revolution freed them from a dictatorship... which was, you know, kind of the point.
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Liking Che Guevarra been lame for years now.

    It just goes to show you, no matter what type of legacy you have, some ? can always put your face on a t-shirt and starting 6 months later, you suck forever.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Che murdered women and children.

    Stalin didn't do that.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    Che murdered women and children.
    Stalin didn't do that.
    uh... this might not be accurate depending on how you view what Stalin did
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    janklow wrote: »
    uh... this might not be accurate depending on how you view what Stalin did

    Your anti-Stalin bias is just sad.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    edited December 2010
    shootemwon wrote: »
    Your anti-Stalin bias is just sad.
    well, it is well-known fact that i think Stalin sucks
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    janklow wrote: »
    well, it is well-known fact that i think Stalin sucks

    um no, stalin was probly the most moral human being of the 20th century
  • shootemwon
    shootemwon Members Posts: 4,635 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    um no, stalin was probly the most moral human being of the 20th century

    I think Stalin was a decent guy as well. Don't treat your biased opinions like facts janklow