Interesting Read on Vick...not complimenting him
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It's not the whole article because it's long, and half of you won't read this much:
A similar thing is occurring with Michael Vick now because of his terrific start, but there is a significant difference in that fans and media types in general are saying that he is returning to the level of elite.
There is but one issue with this line of thinking: Vick has never been an elite quarterback.
I know the initial reaction among many to reading that is to question my sanity, but let's take a serious look at this. When did Vick ever meet even one of the criteria that are generally used to designate a quarterback as being elite?
The No. 1 category for quarterback greatness is Super Bowl championships. That is admittedly a very high bar, but given that the only title Vick has won at the professional level is an NFC South championship in 2004, he hasn't earned his elite chops in this achievement class.
A second way quarterbacks are judged for dominant status is playoff victories. Vick guided his Falcons teams to two playoff berths in four full seasons as a starter.
Atlanta won its opening games in each of those tournaments and then lost the subsequent one, so Vick has one wild card and one divisional win to his credit. During that same time frame, there were nine quarterbacks who posted at least as many playoff wins -- and all but one either had more wins or had two wins that were deeper in the playoffs (e.g. divisional and conference championship victories). He doesn't cut it for elite status here, either.
A lot of Vick's backers will say that he had a very good regular-season win percentage, but the evidence here also isn't very strong.
At the moment, Vick's career record is 40-28-1; that's a 58.7 win percentage. Pro-rate that percentage over a 16-game season and it equals a 9-7 mark.
That record is also skewed quite heavily by his 11-4 win-loss mark in 2004. Take that single season away and his record is 29-24-1 (54.6 win percentage). To put it simply, when it comes to wins and losses, Vick in the NFL has mostly been a slightly above .500 quarterback.
So if championships, playoff wins and regular-season victories aren't places he can hang his greatness cap, his elite status would have to come from statistics.
This obviously isn't the case because Vick has fared quite poorly in the areas that are generally used to designate a quarterback as top of the line in this arena. He has never rated higher than 18th in passer rating and his highest single-season passing touchdown total is 20."
Just to bring the Vick fans back down to Earth. We can't go around thinking every QB that beats the Lions and Jags are amazing for it. If he continues to do well, I'll give him his props, but for now...waaaay too early.
A similar thing is occurring with Michael Vick now because of his terrific start, but there is a significant difference in that fans and media types in general are saying that he is returning to the level of elite.
There is but one issue with this line of thinking: Vick has never been an elite quarterback.
I know the initial reaction among many to reading that is to question my sanity, but let's take a serious look at this. When did Vick ever meet even one of the criteria that are generally used to designate a quarterback as being elite?
The No. 1 category for quarterback greatness is Super Bowl championships. That is admittedly a very high bar, but given that the only title Vick has won at the professional level is an NFC South championship in 2004, he hasn't earned his elite chops in this achievement class.
A second way quarterbacks are judged for dominant status is playoff victories. Vick guided his Falcons teams to two playoff berths in four full seasons as a starter.
Atlanta won its opening games in each of those tournaments and then lost the subsequent one, so Vick has one wild card and one divisional win to his credit. During that same time frame, there were nine quarterbacks who posted at least as many playoff wins -- and all but one either had more wins or had two wins that were deeper in the playoffs (e.g. divisional and conference championship victories). He doesn't cut it for elite status here, either.
A lot of Vick's backers will say that he had a very good regular-season win percentage, but the evidence here also isn't very strong.
At the moment, Vick's career record is 40-28-1; that's a 58.7 win percentage. Pro-rate that percentage over a 16-game season and it equals a 9-7 mark.
That record is also skewed quite heavily by his 11-4 win-loss mark in 2004. Take that single season away and his record is 29-24-1 (54.6 win percentage). To put it simply, when it comes to wins and losses, Vick in the NFL has mostly been a slightly above .500 quarterback.
So if championships, playoff wins and regular-season victories aren't places he can hang his greatness cap, his elite status would have to come from statistics.
This obviously isn't the case because Vick has fared quite poorly in the areas that are generally used to designate a quarterback as top of the line in this arena. He has never rated higher than 18th in passer rating and his highest single-season passing touchdown total is 20."
Just to bring the Vick fans back down to Earth. We can't go around thinking every QB that beats the Lions and Jags are amazing for it. If he continues to do well, I'll give him his props, but for now...waaaay too early.
Comments
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I agree with the article, a few others on here will as well.
The only reason Vick is as loved as he is by ? is because he got locked up for committing a crime (and you know how us ? hate self responsibility) and he came back to gain a starting job. Dude was never elite and never was a good passer. One think I do disagree with is that it said he's the same. No Way. Someone in between the last pre-season game and the beginning of the reg season taught him how to throw. Those last two games I was shocked at how accurate and poised in the pocket he has become, he looks better now than he did any year with the falcons. -
this is all stuff thats been said ad nauseum in the 'cheap seats' about vick. dude musta been a lurker
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this is all stuff thats been said ad nauseum in the 'cheap seats' about vick. dude musta been a lurker
I don't think so. I've actually read people say Vick has a much higher win percentage. I also haven't really heard it said that Vick's only accomplishment is 1 NFC South title, or that he only has 2 career playoff wins. I have heard a lot of he's not accurate, runs when he should pass, makes a lot of mistakes. But I haven't seen these points mentioned at nauseum. -
damn...thought more people would read this
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Don't nobody bring up those ? ass WR he had in ATL......You know the WR's are Doo-Doo when your TE and RB are the leading receivers.
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Don't nobody bring up those ? ass WR he had in ATL......You know the WR's are Doo-Doo when your TE and RB are the leading receivers.
Mcnabb didn't have great receivers in Philly, or Brady in NE -
parallelrhymes wrote: »He's a decent black quarterback...quarterback is a stereotypical white position...if he does above average it will look great...word to Atlanta
haha, i don't think it's that simple man. -
I don't remember anybody saying he's an elite QB, but more like elite player. The guy hasn't started or played any meaningful downs in almost 3 years so what he has done so far is amazing because at the end of the day he's playing against NFL talent. Lions have improved some so they don't suck as bad on D. He also out played the Packers D, who had the top rated D last year I believe. His record still reflects that of a winning QB.
Right now he is #2 in passer rating behind Manning, #4 in passing TD, and he is the most sacked QB yet he hasn't thrown an INT yet. He's finally coming into his own. Is he top 5? No, but I think he can make a real push for Top 10. He's doing it all without his starting center. Manning started 1-2 in 2008 when Saturday was injured those first 3 games so having your starting center is kind of a big deal... -
I don't remember anybody saying he's an elite QB, but more like elite player. The guy hasn't started or played any meaningful downs in almost 3 years so what he has done so far is amazing because at the end of the day he's playing against NFL talent. Lions have improved some so they don't suck as bad on D. He also out played the Packers D, who had the top rated D last year I believe. His record still reflects that of a winning QB.
Right now he is #2 in passer rating behind Manning, #4 in passing TD, and he is the most sacked QB yet he hasn't thrown an INT yet. He's finally coming into his own. Is he top 5? No, but I think he can make a real push for Top 10. He's doing it all without his starting center. Manning started 1-2 in 2008 when Saturday was injured those first 3 games so having your starting center is kind of a big deal...
The only position he plays is QB. It's not like he's on some Reggie Bush, Josh Cribbs, Devin Hester stuff. He's only a QB. Him not strapping up for 3 years doesn't really matter IMO. You're a starter in the NFL, and you took the other QB's spot...you're expected to perform. Only exception is possibly injury. And we can't say anything about stats when we're only 3 games into the season. Right now ? Foster's the leading RB, and Austin Collie's the leading receiver. It's just crazy to me that this is his 8th season in the NFL. Take away his rookie yr, and last year and we have 6 years of Vick to look at. But people want to look at 2 games and say he's finally arrived, and he's fixed the problems he used to have, yadda yadda. I say wait and see how the season turns out. If he has a good SEASON then give him all the props he deserves. -
Some of this article is true, but for the most part Vick won games, and to bring up the fact that he hasn't won a superbowl is crazy too, cause Dan Marino never won a championship and he still considered one of the greatest, along with Warren Moon and others. Now I do agree with the fact that he wasn't that good of a passer, but he made up for that with his running ability. Also like many have said Roddy White, Micheal Jenkins and not to forget Peerless Price was straight garbage at the time. Also Roddy Whites work ethic was just as bad as Vick's until the Falcons brought in Joe Horn, who taught him how take the game more seriously and cut out the late night partying. Also another thing that probably contributed to the Falcons not being as good as they could have been was the lack of a defense. Every team that has won a championship while Vick was playing in Atlanta had a great defense to back them up, like the Patriots, Bucs, and Steelers.
You can't discredit the man cause he beat the Lions and Jaguars, cause if you look at the stats he's still playing better than half the QB's in the league right now and they didn't have a two year layoff like Vick did. Also lets not forget that he had a good game against the Packers who many are claiming to reach the Superbowl or go deep into the playoffs this year. I think ? are just trying to find a way to discredit the man cause they never liked him in the first place. -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »I agree with the article, a few others on here will as well.
The only reason Vick is as loved as he is by ? is because he got locked up for committing a crime (and you know how us ? hate self responsibility) and he came back to gain a starting job. Dude was never elite and never was a good passer. One think I do disagree with is that it said he's the same. No Way. Someone in between the last pre-season game and the beginning of the reg season taught him how to throw. Those last two games I was shocked at how accurate and poised in the pocket he has become, he looks better now than he did any year with the falcons.
Thats crazy dude MF's been loving Mike Vick since he came into the league. Michael Vick was one of the most popular QB's in the league MF's stood behind him b/c that was a ? up charge b/c he had 2 be made a example of. Michael Vick didnt have near the skill players he has now 2 be that QB with a high passer rating Deshawn Jackson prim example and Jeremy Maclin another example. Michael Vick struggled b/c he was carrying those teams 2 the playoffs he had 2 make something out of nothing plenty of times -
ThaChozenWun wrote: »I agree with the article, a few others on here will as well.
The only reason Vick is as loved as he is by ? is because he got locked up for committing a crime (and you know how us ? hate self responsibility) and he came back to gain a starting job. Dude was never elite and never was a good passer. One think I do disagree with is that it said he's the same. No Way. Someone in between the last pre-season game and the beginning of the reg season taught him how to throw. Those last two games I was shocked at how accurate and poised in the pocket he has become, he looks better now than he did any year with the falcons.
shut the ? up.
