SMH at still being scared of China...
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kingblaze84 wrote: »Yeah, this is all very true. China is not exactly loved by its Asian neighbors. Japan, India, and I bet South Korea would join the USA rather than fight with China. China is seen as a threat in much of Asia, while the USA is still seen in mostly favorable terms in the region.
In a fight, China would go 12 rounds, and America would get a KO in that round with lots of nuclear weapons. The American airforce is the best in the world, ask Japan.
Your sig is also really funny.
India would never side with the USA(think Brazil, Russia, India. China= BRIC----Vietnam isn't exactly pro US, just like cambodja/laos are not), that would be absurd. In India the middleclass will double within the next 5 years, India(just like China) will not only have a greater economy than that of the states, they also want to be a worldpower that fends for itself. Japan and Korea are complicated.....(cause in korea people have been protesting US presence from the troops to the food/beef imports, this happens in south korea mind you and in Japan it has been a populair political sentiment to hate on the US presence in the land as well, even are animes about them lol) And lets not forget that the koreans don't really have the best relationship with Japan and vice versa so.......
Please don't let your patriotism (cause thats the only thing I can come up with about why you people can drop such foolish arguments) blind you of what is actually happening in the world. -
Alkindus
Let me ask you mister hater. If you and yours are attacked are you gonna just turn the other cheek? I'm NO FOOL but you definitely are the hater & America is the worst country on the planet.....so wtf is your beef? BTW I betcha you don't celebrate thanksgiving either....yeah all the bad that the pilgrims et al did to the indigenous population....on and on and on and on. JUST get ? out of this terrible country & go and find your own lollipops and sunshine world,YOU aren't welcome here.
I live in The Netherlands bro, people don't even know wtf thanks giving is over here lol.
I didn't know Iraq attacked the US, hell I didn't even know laos, somalia and dozens of others did. Thanks 4 the info.
When it involves human life/rights I'm not going to romantisize ? because of some form of affection/passion I would have towards 'my country', ? borders/nationality, try to look at the world as a world citizen and not the interest of the (corporate) American government. It are nothing but facts that the US is the biggest arms trader in the world + waged war a zillion times meaning they dropped thousands of bombs, shot millions of bullets after the 2end world war and lets not pretend that it was in self defense...
edit: Oh and I hate the way these facts are ignored or whimpled away as if they aren't important or were done in the name of patriotic justice etc ? that. Thats why I'm a hater, I hate how people pretend that dropping hundreds of clusterbombs in residential areas isn't that bad at all when it are africans/arabs. Those same ? feel sad when a soldier dies, it gets a shitload of media attention but the thousands of nameless children, women (once again nobody gives a ? about man) that died are completly ignored because they are all non americans and it were americans that killed them.
Maybe you don't give a ? about foreigners(read: the rest of the world), but people all over the world have different newspapers/channels than u bro, people don't think that america acts in self defense or turns the other cheek etc to say the least. -
Ok so you don't know about that holiday and the history behind it......good one less hateful diatribe to hear from outsiders. Incidentally, I never said anything about Iraq attacking us -- I was testing your courage and I found out EXACTLY what I felt all along. YOU hate my country and what it stands for......SO you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Population IT seems like you live in the perfect world.....however it's WAY to cold for me.
I can't stand injustice bro, I just don't make a difference between Russian/American/Chinese/Israeli/Moroccan/Dutch etc agression. You can't ignore the previous facts I mentioned regarding the wars and arms trade. I feel that if you have any humanity in you than you should also not look the other way when americans ? non americans. murder is murder. Whether someone has a chinese or american nationality it should not matter. I don't hate America, I hate the ? that use it to justify their corporate interests/other interests while sacrificing brain washed soldiers and completly innocent civilisians which are non-americans. Just like I hate moslims that stone people in the name of ? or christians that ? people in the name of ? etc, injustice is injustice no matter who you rap it up.
Holland is far from a perfect world.....If we would have won the world cup last summer it would have been the perfect world lol -
LOL@ Defending American Imperialism by default
Dude is right America has done tons upon tons of ? *d up ? to other countries and continues to this very hour. All in the name of "Freedom" right? We aint even free in America get a ? *n clue. -
The US uses its military primarily to protect and promote multinational corporations grounded in the US. That said, the US also introduced (in practice) the notions of citizenship, universal citizenship, and human rights to the modern western world.
Is the US a purposeful force for good around the world? Of course not, to assume as much is adopt a truly childish worldview. But does the US place much more emphasis on domestic human rights than say China? Yes definitely. -
As for the EU being a bigger economic entity than the US (as a lot of Europeans like to argue), of course one can make this argument, but it depends on how u look at it. The euro-zone is not on par with the US in terms of GDP, nor does the EU have the sort of economic elasticity that the US does (global economy is still dollarized and the euro isn't ready for primetime). Plus let's keep it real, the EU is in a lot of trouble right now and europhiles are chomping at the bit to undermine its cohesion.
US has problems too, obviously, haha. -
parallelrhymes wrote: »Bruh, China don't want us to start droppin bombs...they better hit up Japan and ask about us...
C/S/...The u.s. could destroy that whole region with probably a dozen airplanes flying over the china skies. -
parallelrhymes wrote: »we'd get pretty ? up too though...pretty sure WW3 would start at that point
but I don't think that'd happen between US and China based off this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_first_use
We would just bomb tha ? out of them i know we would take some loses also... but japan is a STRONG alie to the u.s. and you know how much they despise china. -
seriously, find the part of my post where i dispute that the US has bombed some countries, fought some countries, supported some shady dudes or sold some weapons. i'm going to wait right here while you check, because come on, i am not going to defend a position i did not take.I know I might come of as a hater but you guys are fooling yourselves if u are going to ignore the given that the US bombed significant parts of the world(from Laos to Iraq) it has consistantly waged war, supported separists groups/militias/rebellions etc(in total about 30 to 50 wars), is the biggest arms dealer in the world by far(and has sold weaponry to the previous mentioned groups)
oh ? , for real? i thought this was all something on my PS3?Do you ? even realize that they are using REAL bombs and real bullets and that the colletaral damage are actual human beings? this is not call of duty but real life...
you come off as a hater because your position is "you ? , this isn't a video game." did i say it was? for that matter, did i miss where i framed my argument as "you ? , the US is way better than China, dude?"
i'm going to say it because the Soviets were worse and because the Chinese aren't showing me they give a ? about human rights either, and the debate always gets framed as "the US is an evil capitalist power, never mind about the selfish motivations of anyone else." seriously, what is China doing that leads you to believe that they care?the US track record speaks for itself, if you gonna say that well the sovjets were worse or the chinese are worse than you really have no clue or any respect for human rights in general.
regarding China? the country that motivated India to get nuclear weapons? the country that they've had multiple military conflicts with? no, China and India may be getting along a lot better right now, but the whole point of India being unaligned means they'll play nice to countries like the US and China as needed, and sometimes this will mean, shockingly, siding with the US.India would never side with the USA
Vietnam isn't gung-? pro-US, but despite the Vietnam War, it's probably remembered that Vietnam and China have had military conflict of their own, and it's not like Vietnam is wild about China trying to dominate them because they're in the region.Vietnam isn't exactly pro US, just like cambodja/laos are not
just like Americans focus on "AMERICA #1" at the expense of trying to get some additional perspectives, non-Americans focus so much on how EVIL America surely is that they can't be bothered to notice we're not the only country full of selfish ? .Please don't let your patriotism (cause thats the only thing I can come up with about why you people can drop such foolish arguments) blind you of what is actually happening in the world. -
seriously, find the part of my post where i dispute that the US has bombed some countries, fought some countries, supported some shady dudes or sold some weapons. i'm going to wait right here while you check, because come on, i am not going to defend a position i did not take.
oh ? , for real? i thought this was all something on my PS3?
you come off as a hater because your position is "you ? , this isn't a video game." did i say it was? for that matter, did i miss where i framed my argument as "you ? , the US is way better than China, dude?"
i'm going to say it because the Soviets were worse and because the Chinese aren't showing me they give a ? about human rights either, and the debate always gets framed as "the US is an evil capitalist power, never mind about the selfish motivations of anyone else." seriously, what is China doing that leads you to believe that they care?
regarding China? the country that motivated India to get nuclear weapons? the country that they've had multiple military conflicts with? no, China and India may be getting along a lot better right now, but the whole point of India being unaligned means they'll play nice to countries like the US and China as needed, and sometimes this will mean, shockingly, siding with the US.
Vietnam isn't gung-? pro-US, but despite the Vietnam War, it's probably remembered that Vietnam and China have had military conflict of their own, and it's not like Vietnam is wild about China trying to dominate them because they're in the region.
just like Americans focus on "AMERICA #1" at the expense of trying to get some additional perspectives, non-Americans focus so much on how EVIL America surely is that they can't be bothered to notice we're not the only country full of selfish ? .
Damn, this is a good ass post. Allkindus has good points too, but damn, you knocked this one out the park. -
seriously, find the part of my post where i dispute that the US has bombed some countries, fought some countries, supported some shady dudes or sold some weapons. i'm going to wait right here while you check, because come on, i am not going to defend a position i did not take.
oh ? , for real? i thought this was all something on my PS3?
you come off as a hater because your position is "you ? , this isn't a video game." did i say it was? for that matter, did i miss where i framed my argument as "you ? , the US is way better than China, dude?"
i'm going to say it because the Soviets were worse and because the Chinese aren't showing me they give a ? about human rights either, and the debate always gets framed as "the US is an evil capitalist power, never mind about the selfish motivations of anyone else." seriously, what is China doing that leads you to believe that they care?
regarding China? the country that motivated India to get nuclear weapons? the country that they've had multiple military conflicts with? no, China and India may be getting along a lot better right now, but the whole point of India being unaligned means they'll play nice to countries like the US and China as needed, and sometimes this will mean, shockingly, siding with the US.
Vietnam isn't gung-? pro-US, but despite the Vietnam War, it's probably remembered that Vietnam and China have had military conflict of their own, and it's not like Vietnam is wild about China trying to dominate them because they're in the region.
just like Americans focus on "AMERICA #1" at the expense of trying to get some additional perspectives, non-Americans focus so much on how EVIL America surely is that they can't be bothered to notice we're not the only country full of selfish ? .
I seriously just spend 15 minutes countering every argument you made man, I clicked on reply and than I had to log in again and ? didn't process whatevr. I'm ? of right now lmao
So to sum it up:
u posted this:
whatever your disagreement with US foreign policy, it pays human rights much more regard than Chinese foreign policy. or, to go to the earlier dominant power, than that of the USSR
Nowmy dissagreement is/was that it makes no sense to say that the US pays more more regard for human rights than the chinese/sovjet foreign policy because thats like comparing Suid Afrika Apartheid policy with Israels current policy, they are both ? horrible + the given that this is a totally Subjective argument because If you and I would be living in Laos or lets say Iraq right now than we would both say ? the US and will not for a second believe that the US foreign policy is in any way better than that of the Chinese.
I'll make it even more easy for u: when were teh sovjets worse than the US? pre ww2? when people with darker skin were being lynched on the streets and consider non humans in the good ol USA? or do you mean in the 60's when the US bombed the ? out of vietam/laos?
- I don; t believe India will side with the US in a war against China, In fact I don't believe there will be a war between the US and China.
- Vietnam was ruled by China for a thousand years, I donot see a US/Vietnam coalition against the Chinese during a new war or any of the other surroiuning nations, infact in countries like laos in history class they teach their children that they have overcome US imperiliasm etc their are many anti american sentiments and with all the viet friens I have I refuse to believe there will be such a coalition, the US lost the war remember?
- I donot focus on the evil to much, I focus on the people that forgot what evil is(due to patriotism or whatever), I think you hate the fact that your illusion of the US being superior regarding human rights gets blown to pieces when subjected to an objective state of mind, I'm arab, ever since 2003 I couldn't turn on the tv without some mothers screaming in arab to ? about their children because the US bombed the ? out of Iraq, I was in puberty etc that ? woke me up, evil is evil, if u do not like hearing about it than go live on the mountains. the reason why so many foreigners hate america is because of the ? u just posted, the evil the US is doing and has done isnot miniscule, regarding the bolded: they aren't 'some' countries/shady dudes/some weapons, we are talking about worldwide stuff it's on a very large scale, for example the US sells more weapons than the Chinese and Russians combined and I wish they were just 2 'some' shady dudes. -
most of u monkeys dont know ? about current events or even history.
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BlackxChild wrote: »How well is that working in afganistan.
a war and nation-building are completely different.
War is DOD
Nation-building is State Department. -
that IS frustrating... although i dispute the existence of this awesome countering postI seriously just spend 15 minutes countering every argument you made man, I clicked on reply and than I had to log in again and ? didn't process whatevr. I'm ? of right now lmao
okay, first off, it makes sense to make the argument if one DOES care more than the other. one can always be worse than another even if both are bad. but perhaps more to the point is that when you say "US foreign policy has been the defintion of a total disregard for human rights," the implication is that other nations' foreign policies are not. this is why i want you to explain to me why China gives a ? about human rights in other nations; the US can at LEAST claim to pay lip service to the idea.Nowmy dissagreement is/was that it makes no sense to say that the US pays more more regard for human rights than the chinese/sovjet foreign policy because thats like comparing Suid Afrika Apartheid policy with Israels current policy, they are both ? horrible + the given that this is a totally Subjective argument because If you and I would be living in Laos or lets say Iraq right now than we would both say ? the US and will not for a second believe that the US foreign policy is in any way better than that of the Chinese.
pre-WWII and post-WWII. the Soviets didn't round up and ? scores of their own citizens? furthermore, regarding the Soviet Union, we're talking about foreign policy, right? so let's leave the domestic issues of the US and the USSR aside ... what foreign policy of the USSR shows me they gave a ? about human rights?I'll make it even more easy for u: when were teh sovjets worse than the US? pre ww2? when people with darker skin were being lynched on the streets and consider non humans in the good ol USA? or do you mean in the 60's when the US bombed the ? out of vietam/laos?
also, regarding the bombing of Laos... why did the US bomb Laos? just to do it? or because North Vietnam was using Laos (and Cambodia) as a staging area? i'm mystified as to why we act like the US was horribly out of line to bomb anything within the borders of Laos... but totally fine for North Vietnam to run through Laos?
i don't think there will be a war between the US and China, but what i DO think is that it's not a given that India would never side with the US. it doesn't have to be out of love for the US that you side with it.I don; t believe India will side with the US in a war against China, In fact I don't believe there will be a war between the US and China.
China ruling Vietnam for 1000 years is not an argument in favor of Vietnam loving China. but do we REALLY want to debate whether or not the US lost the Vietnam War? because it's going to get ? -retentive up in here if we do.Vietnam was ruled by China for a thousand years, I donot see a US/Vietnam coalition against the Chinese during a new war or any of the other surroiuning nations, infact in countries like laos in history class they teach their children that they have overcome US imperiliasm etc their are many anti american sentiments and with all the viet friens I have I refuse to believe there will be such a coalition, the US lost the war remember?
i don't think your state of mind is objective at all. you have beef with the US (or at least its foreign policy) and i doubt you want to weigh issues; you've got your mind made up. you say the US sells more weapons than China and Russia combined... but the US doesn't sell more than Russia and Germany combined. and then we're just talking dollars spent, not what's being sold (million-dollar jets? piles of rifles?), or to whom (nations that never use these arms? nations that do?). these things don't matter when the purpose is to go "the US is the most evil country in the world."I donot focus on the evil to much, I focus on the people that forgot what evil is(due to patriotism or whatever), I think you hate the fact that your illusion of the US being superior regarding human rights gets blown to pieces when subjected to an objective state of mind-
on the internet, the way it tends to work is that if i don't agree with you (and i don't mean you and i specifically), then you claim you're objective and i'm not and that's the problem. can't it be that i'm objective but disagree with you? i guess not... -
that IS frustrating... although i dispute the existence of this awesome countering post
okay, first off, it makes sense to make the argument if one DOES care more than the other. one can always be worse than another even if both are bad. but perhaps more to the point is that when you say "US foreign policy has been the defintion of a total disregard for human rights," the implication is that other nations' foreign policies are not. this is why i want you to explain to me why China gives a ? about human rights in other nations; the US can at LEAST claim to pay lip service to the idea.
pre-WWII and post-WWII. the Soviets didn't round up and ? scores of their own citizens? furthermore, regarding the Soviet Union, we're talking about foreign policy, right? so let's leave the domestic issues of the US and the USSR aside ... what foreign policy of the USSR shows me they gave a ? about human rights?
also, regarding the bombing of Laos... why did the US bomb Laos? just to do it? or because North Vietnam was using Laos (and Cambodia) as a staging area? i'm mystified as to why we act like the US was horribly out of line to bomb anything within the borders of Laos... but totally fine for North Vietnam to run through Laos?
i don't think there will be a war between the US and China, but what i DO think is that it's not a given that India would never side with the US. it doesn't have to be out of love for the US that you side with it.
China ruling Vietnam for 1000 years is not an argument in favor of Vietnam loving China. but do we REALLY want to debate whether or not the US lost the Vietnam War? because it's going to get ? -retentive up in here if we do.
i don't think your state of mind is objective at all. you have beef with the US (or at least its foreign policy) and i doubt you want to weigh issues; you've got your mind made up. you say the US sells more weapons than China and Russia combined... but the US doesn't sell more than Russia and Germany combined. and then we're just talking dollars spent, not what's being sold (million-dollar jets? piles of rifles?), or to whom (nations that never use these arms? nations that do?). these things don't matter when the purpose is to go "the US is the most evil country in the world."
on the internet, the way it tends to work is that if i don't agree with you (and i don't mean you and i specifically), then you claim you're objective and i'm not and that's the problem. can't it be that i'm objective but disagree with you? i guess not...
Well it indeed was an awesome counter reply lol;)
But yeah I still consider the US foreign policy as the defintion of total disregard for human rights(because when it's about human life you can't deliver half work, be consistant etc, you can't respect human rights in Europe but don't do the same in Africa and claim you respect human rights because than you are just being selective and a ? hypocrit) but that doesn't mean(and I never stated that) that it implicates that I consider Chinas or Russia's foreign policies better alternatives, on the contrary I have posted that I hate their policies with a passion as well in this thread. Don't feel like repeating myself now. I also do not consider the US the most evil country on the world, I just stated that on this planet they are ONE of the most evil ones and their track record speaks for itself. Who cares if domestic wise the russians or chinese were worse(eventhough many darkskinned americans will dispute that with you) facts are that they are all full of ? human rights wise domestic and especially foreign policies wise. I just don't feel personnally attached to any of those nations like you do.
Oh and they still haven't cleaned up all the bombs in Laos(US government never helped to clean them up even to this day), u saying that they did it because the Viet were running across the border and back might be sound but you still ignore the fact that the US shouldn't have been there in the first place and killed more civilians than soldiers and is responsible fr straight up war crimes in that region.
I respect your view though and yes I'm everything but a objective mind, so take it as u wish, I don't consider the US foreign policy post ww2 a blessing for this planet. -
just to get this out of the way: the DEFINITION of "total disregard" would be none. you cannot say, with a straight face, that US foreign policy has a TOTAL disregard for human rights. call it hypocritical, call it overshadowed by other stuff/worse stuff, whatever.But yeah I still consider the US foreign policy as the defintion of total disregard for human rights(because when it's about human life you can't deliver half work, be consistant etc, you can't respect human rights in Europe but don't do the same in Africa and claim you respect human rights because than you are just being selective and a ? hypocrit)-
so i think this is where i am going with this: if essentially every country operates their foreign policy based on ? , selfish reasons... then what's the point of making a big deal about how bad the US foreign policy is? wouldn't this mean that EVERYONE'S sucks equally?-but that doesn't mean(and I never stated that) that it implicates that I consider Chinas or Russia's foreign policies better alternatives, on the contrary I have posted that I hate their policies with a passion as well in this thread.
so who IS the most evil?I also do not consider the US the most evil country on the world, I just stated that on this planet they are ONE of the most evil ones and their track record speaks for itself.
actually, i don't know who cares about the domestic policies of Russia and China because, to be fair, you brought up domestic policy when we were discussing foreign policy.Who cares if domestic wise the russians or chinese were worse(eventhough many darkskinned americans will dispute that with you) facts are that they are all full of ? human rights wise domestic and especially foreign policies wise.
sorry that i was born in and live in one of these nations, dude. but also, you're saying this because it's an attempt to dismiss my position as "oh, you're just attached to the US." again, i can make the effort to be objective, and maybe even BE objective, and just happen to disagree with you.I just don't feel personnally attached to any of those nations like you do.
actually, i'm not ignoring anything. let's be frank: you brought up the bombing of Laos and presented it as the US bombing Laos... without giving any reason as to why. you paired it with Iraq, implying that, like Iraq, we were launching an invasion/attack on Laos.Oh and they still haven't cleaned up all the bombs in Laos(US government never helped to clean them up even to this day), u saying that they did it because the Viet were running across the border and back might be sound but you still ignore the fact that the US shouldn't have been there in the first place and killed more civilians than soldiers and is responsible fr straight up war crimes in that region.
further, it matters why were bombing in Laos because if you think that North Vietnam was violating Laos' neutrality first (which is true) and the US bombed them there as a result... well, who's fault is this? i also think it's a slightly inaccurate portrayal to make it seem as if all that happen in Laos was "the US bombed and killed some civilians."
well, it's cool, we can always agree to disagreeI respect your view though and yes I'm everything but a objective mind, so take it as u wish, I don't consider the US foreign policy post ww2 a blessing for this planet. -
I seriously just spend 15 minutes countering every argument you made man, I clicked on reply and than I had to log in again and ? didn't process whatevr. I'm ? of right now lmao
So to sum it up:
u posted this:
whatever your disagreement with US foreign policy, it pays human rights much more regard than Chinese foreign policy. or, to go to the earlier dominant power, than that of the USSR
Nowmy dissagreement is/was that it makes no sense to say that the US pays more more regard for human rights than the chinese/sovjet foreign policy because thats like comparing Suid Afrika Apartheid policy with Israels current policy, they are both ? horrible + the given that this is a totally Subjective argument because If you and I would be living in Laos or lets say Iraq right now than we would both say ? the US and will not for a second believe that the US foreign policy is in any way better than that of the Chinese.
I'll make it even more easy for u: when were teh sovjets worse than the US? pre ww2? when people with darker skin were being lynched on the streets and consider non humans in the good ol USA? or do you mean in the 60's when the US bombed the ? out of vietam/laos?
- I don; t believe India will side with the US in a war against China, In fact I don't believe there will be a war between the US and China.
- Vietnam was ruled by China for a thousand years, I donot see a US/Vietnam coalition against the Chinese during a new war or any of the other surroiuning nations, infact in countries like laos in history class they teach their children that they have overcome US imperiliasm etc their are many anti american sentiments and with all the viet friens I have I refuse to believe there will be such a coalition, the US lost the war remember?
- I donot focus on the evil to much, I focus on the people that forgot what evil is(due to patriotism or whatever), I think you hate the fact that your illusion of the US being superior regarding human rights gets blown to pieces when subjected to an objective state of mind, I'm arab, ever since 2003 I couldn't turn on the tv without some mothers screaming in arab to ? about their children because the US bombed the ? out of Iraq, I was in puberty etc that ? woke me up, evil is evil, if u do not like hearing about it than go live on the mountains. the reason why so many foreigners hate america is because of the ? u just posted, the evil the US is doing and has done isnot miniscule, regarding the bolded: they aren't 'some' countries/shady dudes/some weapons, we are talking about worldwide stuff it's on a very large scale, for example the US sells more weapons than the Chinese and Russians combined and I wish they were just 2 'some' shady dudes.
Damn, very good post. This is all, sadly, very true. America does not have an innocent history, it's a pretty brutal one, although there is lots of good mixed in.
