Top 10 Reasons Jesus isn't ?

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  • Coo Coo Cal's Beanie
    Coo Coo Cal's Beanie Members Posts: 3,864 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    And Step wrote: »
    ........Can't listen to a white dude talk about Jesus for more than 30 seconds......................
    ahahahhaahha

    basically
  • kids in america_
    kids in america_ Members Posts: 213
    edited December 2010
    Strong post right here..



    I have yet to see anyone refute John 8:56-58...

    Here read the article. I share the same sentiments on how ‘Jesus’ was "before" Abraham...
    John 8:58b
    Before Abraham was, I am. (KJV)

    1. Trinitarians argue that this verse states that Jesus said he was the “I am” (i.e., the Yahweh of the Old Testament), so he must be ? . This is just not the case. Saying “I am” does not make a person ? . The man born blind that Jesus healed was not claiming to be ? , and he said “I am the man,” and the Greek reads exactly like Jesus’ statement, i.e., “I am.” The fact that the exact same phrase is translated two different ways, one as “I am” and the other as “I am the man,” is one reason it is so hard for the average Christian to get the truth from just reading the Bible as it has been translated into English. Most Bible translators are Trinitarian, and their bias appears in various places in their translation, this being a common one. Paul also used the same phrase of himself when he said that he wished all men were as “I am” (Acts 26:29). Thus, we conclude that saying “I am” did not make Paul, the man born blind or Christ into ? . C. K. Barrett writes:

    Ego eimi [“I am”] does not identify Jesus with ? , but it does draw attention to him in the strongest possible terms. “I am the one—the one you must look at, and listen to, if you would know ? .” [23]

    2. The phrase “I am” occurs many other times in the New Testament, and is often translated as “I am he” or some equivalent (“I am he”—Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; John 13:19; 18:5, 6 and 8. “It is I”—Matt. 14:27; Mark 6:50; John 6:20. “I am the one I claim to be”—John 8:24 and 28.). It is obvious that these translations are quite correct, and it is interesting that the phrase is translated as “I am” only in John 8:58. If the phrase in John 8:58 were translated “I am he” or “I am the one,” like all the others, it would be easier to see that Christ was speaking of himself as the Messiah of ? (as indeed he was), spoken of throughout the Old Testament.

    At the Last Supper, the disciples were trying to find out who would deny the Christ. They said, literally, “Not I am, Lord” (Matt. 26:22 and 25). No one would say that the disciples were trying to deny that they were ? because they were using the phrase “Not I am.” The point is this: “I am” was a common way of designating oneself, and it did not mean you were claiming to be ? .

    3. The argument is made that because Jesus was “before” Abraham, Jesus must have been ? . There is no question that Jesus figuratively “existed” in Abraham’s time. However, he did not actually physically exist as a person; rather he “existed” in the mind of ? as ? ’s plan for the redemption of man. A careful reading of the context of the verse shows that Jesus was speaking of “existing” in ? ’s foreknowledge. Verse 56 is accurately translated in the King James Version, which says: “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.” This verse says that Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ, which is normally considered by theologians to be the day when Christ conquers the earth and sets up his kingdom. That would fit with what the book of Hebrews says about Abraham: “For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is ? ” (Heb. 11:10). Abraham looked for a city that is still future, yet the Bible says Abraham “saw” it. In what sense could Abraham have seen something that was future? Abraham “saw” the Day of Christ because ? told him it was coming, and Abraham “saw” it by faith. Although Abraham saw the Day of Christ by faith, that day existed in the mind of ? long before Abraham. Thus, in the context of ? ’s plan existing from the beginning, Christ certainly was “before” Abraham. Christ was the plan of ? for man’s redemption long before Abraham lived. We are not the only ones who believe that Jesus’ statement does not make him ? :

    To say that Jesus is “before” him is not to lift him out of the ranks of humanity but to assert his unconditional precedence. To take such statements at the level of “flesh” so as to infer, as “the Jews” do that, at less than fifty, Jesus is claiming to have lived on this earth before Abraham (8:52 and 57), is to be as crass as Nicodemus who understands rebirth as an old man entering his mother’s ? a second time (3:4). [24]

    4. In order for the Trinitarian argument that Jesus’ “I am” statement in John 8:58 makes him ? , his statement must be equivalent with ? ’s “I am” statement in Exodus 3:14. However, the two statements are very different. While the Greek phrase in John does mean “I am,” the Hebrew phrase in Exodus actually means “to be” or “to become.” In other words ? is saying, “I will be what I will be.” Thus the “I am” in Exodus is actually a mistranslation of the Hebrew text, so the fact that Jesus said “I am” did not make him ? .

    Buzzard, pp. 93-97

    Dana, Letter 21, pp. 169-171

    Morgridge, pp. 120-21

    Norton, pp. 242-246

    Snedeker, pp. 416-418





  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    if schizophrenics exists and they can be convincing in being a whole other person(s). Certainly if ? choses to divided himsel into three different character, he would be master of the perception or expression of different realiies, with each personality completey independent of each other. But why limit ? to three personalities, what if...and this is where i blow your minds,...what if he has divided himself into billions, trillions of different personalties and realities, each completely unaware of the other, in a never ending cycle of life and death...and they are you and I.

    remember there is no limit to the possibilities of the creator.....
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    or consider this.....

    In the same way ? has fashioned everything out of his own energy and exists in his image and is therefore his imagination. This is all the visible image of the invisible ? . In exactly the same way that words type on a page are the visible image or reflection of the invisible thoughts and concepts.

    ? is forever sustaining the universe by means of his thought. Where are we? We are inside of ? 's head. But how does that make any sense? What does it mean to say that the universe is inside of ? 's head? Isn't there at least the appearance here of reality?
    What is on the other side of the universe? Only ? . This is a theory meant to try and explain many things, the vastness of the universe. The incomprehensibility of how it got here. And also some of the mysteries as to how ? can be everywhere and inside of everything. The highest heavens the lowest sea, how can he be the first, the last. The same yesterday, today and forever.
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    or consider this.....

    In the same way ? has fashioned everything out of his own energy and exists in his image and is therefore his imagination. This is all the visible image of the invisible ? . In exactly the same way that words type on a page are the visible image or reflection of the invisible thoughts and concepts.

    ? is forever sustaining the universe by means of his thought. Where are we? We are inside of ? 's head. But how does that make any sense? What does it mean to say that the universe is inside of ? 's head? Isn't there at least the appearance here of reality?
    What is on the other side of the universe? Only ? . This is a theory meant to try and explain many things, the vastness of the universe. The incomprehensibility of how it got here. And also some of the mysteries as to how ? can be everywhere and inside of everything. The highest heavens the lowest sea, how can he be the first, the last. The same yesterday, today and forever.

    No, just because ? imagined Jesus doesn't mean Jesus is ? .

    This a serious subject, this is heavy in the Christian faith. This is very important as well, and this video brought up 10 great points and arguments. I'm not sure if people don't want to get into this or are just lazy to watch a 40+ minute video.
  • toktaylor
    toktaylor Members Posts: 612 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    ? IS EVERYTHING
    if schizophrenics exists and they can be convincing in being a whole other person(s). Certainly if ? choses to divided himsel into three different character, he would be master of the perception or expression of different realiies, with each personality completey independent of each other. But why limit ? to three personalities, what if...and this is where i blow your minds,...what if he has divided himself into billions, trillions of different personalties and realities, each completely unaware of the other, in a never ending cycle of life and death...and they are you and I.

    remember there is no limit to the possibilities of the creator.....
  • VIBE
    VIBE Members Posts: 54,384 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    toktaylor wrote: »
    ? IS EVERYTHING
    if schizophrenics exists and they can be convincing in being a whole other person(s). Certainly if ? choses to divided himsel into three different character, he would be master of the perception or expression of different realiies, with each personality completey independent of each other. But why limit ? to three personalities, what if...and this is where i blow your minds,...what if he has divided himself into billions, trillions of different personalties and realities, each completely unaware of the other, in a never ending cycle of life and death...and they are you and I.

    remember there is no limit to the possibilities of the creator.....

    Schizos are crazy, we can agree on that. So if Tara really thinks she's Buck, T, or Alice that can mean ? could be 3 persons as well? No. If you don't know who Tara is, it's simply a TV show. Anyways, that's not a good example. We personally know that a person who thinks they're someone else or acts like someone else is crazy and has a disorder. So is it fair to say ? is crazy and has a disorder? How does ? divide himself? How does that work? How is ? , a ? , Holy Spirit and Jesus at the same time? How does Jesus, as man, deny many things and revert them back to the "Father in heaven"? Jesus always pointed back to the ? . Called him "? the Father" simply because he would be ? the Father of all mankind, our Father as our Creator. In instances from the bible, "US" is used. I don't know what that means, I don't know how to explain it. But that doesn't leave it for the next option as "Jesus has to be ? then, right?" Wrong. Have any other options been explored? Is US ? and his angels?

    Also, that didn't blow my mind. I was like, wtf are you talking about. I see what you're saying, but that's not in the bible, either is the Trinity.
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    And Step wrote: »
    ........Can't listen to a white dude talk about Jesus for more than 30 seconds......................
    Yo is that Ktulu minus the biggie shirt?


    My thoughts exactly.
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    ayo soul rattler, you know about the new corner, right?
  • one_manshow
    one_manshow Members Posts: 4,591 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Good video..... a lot of facts were brought up but its a shame how people will still deny or counter argue it.
  • DRO
    DRO Members Posts: 9,943 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    No jesus is not ? ..

    Can ? die?... No

    did jesus die?... Yes

    can ? be tempted...no

    was jesus tempted.. Yes

    does ? feel pain... No

    did jesus feel pain.. Yes

    is mary the mother of ? ... No

    is mary the mother of jesus.. yes

    did ? pray to jesus... No

    did jesus pray to ? ...yes


    i can go on and on...
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    VIBE86 wrote: »
    Yeah. I'm on the fence though to be honest, even after watching the video. I need to study and read into this more. We can sit and listen to whoever and let them say whatever but we cannot just accept what they say, and this is the problem of the Church. All of them have an instilled product of thought which is all the same, they never double think it, they cannot because they fear they'll be sent to hell. I know though when you really set off of "religion" and read and truly understand, you come to better understanding. This is why I'm now on a whole different level of spirituality, I have no religion, I don't, or try not to, practice my old beliefs in "Christianity".

    I'm more on the side of Jesus isn't ? but is of ? , sent by ? , is ? 's son, everything that "Christians" believe but being ? . But still need to dive into scriptures and deciphering it.

    I can dig this. I have no religion either, hopefully no one will one day.

    But to each his own.
  • ReppinTime
    ReppinTime Members Posts: 4,760 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    1. Jesus Christ never had a beginning. Jesus Christ pre-existed His physical birth. Jesus Christ came from eternity and into time to redeem mankind. ? became a man to save man. These following verses all speak of Jesus pre-existing His physical birth because He created the universe.
    • "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:3
    • "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:2
    • "8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O ? , is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
    • 9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore ? , even thy ? , hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
    • 10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
    • 11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
    • 12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." Hebrews 1:8-12
    • 16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Colossians 1:16-17
    2. Jesus is Divine in name and is called "? " directly: John 1:1-3

    • "1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with ? , and the Word was ? . 2The same was in the beginning with ? . 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
    Here are other passages which unquestionably state that Jesus Christ is ? .

    • Heb 1:8 Father addresses son as ?
    • Jn 1:1 The word was ?
    • Phil 2:6-8 Jesus existed in the form of ?
    • Jn 20:28 'My Lord and My ?
    • Isa 7:14 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Emanuel: ? with us"
    • Isa 9:6 "A Child Will Be Born And His Name Is Called": "Mighty ? , Eternal Father, Prince of Peace"
    3. Of course nobody has seen ? in all His glory. Jesus Christ relieved Himself of the glory that He had before He became a man. He veiled His glory in human flesh and became like one of us, in order to redeem us. If Jesus Christ came to earth glorified at His first coming, mankind would have been doomed because He would becoming to judge and put down sin and rebellion. No man can look at ? , glorified, in an unredeemed state and live. We would all melt in the presence of His glory. Philippians the 2nd chapter addresses the issue of Jesus Christ laying aside His glory, even though He is ? , so that He could redeem man.

    • "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of ? , thought it not robbery to be equal with ? : 7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. "
    4. Jesus did teach that He was ? .

    • "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58
    Jesus Christ told us to, "search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." (John 5:39) Now if you don't search the scriptures to see if these things are true, you will continue to not believe, just as the jews didn't even though He performed signs and miracles that the world had never seen before or after His first coming.

    5. Jesus Christ became a man and was made like His brethren. Of course He slept, ate, and prayed. These reasons are ridiculous. The man in the video has no knowledge of ? , nor does He have any knowledge of the scriptures.

    • "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to ? , to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." Hebrews 2:17

    I will leave off here. If need be I will answer the last 5 disputes with the knowledge that the Holy Spirit (who is ? too) will give me. Thank you Lord for you have hidden these things from the wise in heart and has revealed your truth unto babes. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to you and you take the wise in their own craftiness. I glorify you Father for giving me wisdom and understanding in order to praise you for who you truly are and to give light to a world filled with darkness. Continue to use me and fashion me into the image of your Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. In Jesus name I pray, Amen.



    i missed the replies to this
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    ayo soul rattler, you know about the new corner, right?

    No. Thought it was dead and gone.


    ..................
  • KTULU IS BACK
    KTULU IS BACK Banned Users Posts: 6,617 ✭✭
    edited December 2010
    No. Thought it was dead and gone.


    ..................

    thahiphopcorner.com/forum/
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2010
    Anyone that reads the bible should know that Jesus is not ? and I still don't get why people keep pushing statements like Jesus was part of ? because you are part of ? also if u believe in the bible 100% because it says you were made in his image. I know there are people that believe that Jesus was some type of miracle baby that never had to be given birth to by a human but so was Adam which most people fail to acknowledge, you, Jesus, Adam and on and on come from the same image no matter how you try to give less significance to one person than the other.
  • supaman4321
    supaman4321 Members Posts: 946
    edited December 2010
    3:59 Verily, in the sight of ? , the nature of Jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.
    3:60 [This is] the truth from thy Sustainer; be not, then, among the doubters!
    3:61 And if anyone should argue with thee about this [truth] after all the knowledge that has come unto thee, say: "Come! Let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves; and then let us pray [together] humbly and ardently, and let us invoke ? 's curse upon those [of us] who are telling a lie."
    3:62 Behold, this is indeed the truth of the matter, and there is no deity whatever save ? ; and, verily, ? - He alone - is almighty, truly wise.
    3:63 And if they turn away [from this truth] - behold, ? has full knowledge of the spreaders of corruption.
    3:64 Say: "O followers of earlier revelation! Come unto that tenet which we and you hold in common: that we shall worship none but ? , and that we shall not ascribe divinity to aught beside Him, and that we shall not take human beings for our lords beside ? ." And if they turn away, then say: "Bear witness that it is we who have surrendered ourselves unto Him."


    No point in arguing with anybody tell them the truth if they accept it mash'Allah if not then they go astray at the cost of their own souls

    ? is not "everything" this is a very dangerous concept in Islam and leads to shirk which is the belief that ? can/does have partners or associates

    112:1 SAY: "He is the One ? :
    112:2 "? the Eternal, the Uncaused Cause of All Being.
    112:3 "He begets not, and neither is He begotten;
    112:4 "and there is nothing that could be compared with Him.

    I've never seen a response to how Jesus can be ? but always says he's not good and that only ? is good as well so i guess we're both waitin, I'm pretty sure i would have an easier time of explaining him not being divine than you would for him being divine if you look at the materials objectively of course.

    i'll post this again for anybody that hasn't had an opportunity to see it it's a muslims argument to most of the points given by christians on Isa's(a.s.) divinity: http://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_what_did_jesus_really_say.pdf


    Salaam