Is Capitalism Really The Ideal System To Govern Under?
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There has got to be a better way especially when you hear that 4 members of the Walton family ( Walmart heirs I Think ) make more money than 40 percent of Americans.
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I've been wondering about this question lately myself. Capitalism needs everlasting growth on a planet that has finite resources. Capitalism has created massive wealth, but only for the select few who own the means of production. American capitalism is something of a joke now though, since the govt loves to bail out banks and rich corporations while the middle class and working class get squeezed in due to inflation and few raise increases. Capitalism in America is now sick and needs some big time medicine. I personally think a combination of socialism and capitalism is best for the country. Bail outs for the poor and for the middle class is needed badly.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »I've been wondering about this question lately myself. Capitalism needs everlasting growth on a planet that has finite resources. Capitalism has created massive wealth, but only for the select few who own the means of production. American capitalism is something of a joke now though, since the govt loves to bail out banks and rich corporations while the middle class and working class get squeezed in due to inflation and few raise increases. Capitalism in America is now sick and needs some big time medicine. I personally think a combination of socialism and capitalism is best for the country. Bail outs for the poor and for the middle class is needed badly.
not necessarily true -
blakfyahking wrote: »not necessarily true
Really? Think of everything you need to run a business, including electricity (energy resource) and equipment (material resource). Those things don't really last forever. And if it can be grown or used over and over again, it is destroying the environment. Prove me wrong if you can because I used to believe the way you do...... -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Really? Think of everything you need to run a business, including electricity (energy resource) and equipment (material resource). Those things don't really last forever. And if it can be grown or used over and over again, it is destroying the environment. Prove me wrong if you can because I used to believe the way you do......
well the one of the foundations of economics is that capital and labor are transferable
ultimately the idea is that there is supposedly a finite number of resources, but they do not run out
because they are just transferred from one person to another
thinking of the circulation of US dollars................... most of the problems stem from not enough money circulating amongst the population vs. there actually being a shortage
other resources are able to be reused as well
capitalism encourages innovation................but the real problem is human nature and the fact that not everyone is capable of fully participating in a capitalistic structure
hence the growing concentration of wealth for a select few at the expense of others -
capitalism is not a system of government
it's an economic philosophy -
ya'll know what t/s is attempting to say tho
of course it's an economic philosophy.............but does it work better for govts to use that philosophy vs another? -
Well maybe it is but there needs to be heavy regulation and oversite setup by Governmental and independent watch dog agencies. Capitalism is also widely unpredictable and when ever these big businesses screw us over they should be fined. Honestly you can't have a large capitalist system with out ? over some one either the customer or the worker....because that's the easiest way to obtain wealth in this system. The main gripe against socialism is that no one can ever be enormously rich because the Government controls the means of production (Gov would own business instead of individuals) they would be reduced to a Government salary No 35 million dollar a year salary. I guess you have to take the good with the bad. Either a more equally distributed wealth....no one is super rich but poverty almost doesn't exist.....or People can make tens of billions of dollars but poverty levels are high.
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blakfyahking wrote: »ya'll know what t/s is attempting to say tho
of course it's an economic philosophy.............but does it work better for govts to use that philosophy vs another?
Governments don't use capitalism. They are used by it.
What do you mean by "work better" here? Better how? And for who?
In societies dominated by capital, the wealthy will have a great quality of life, class mobility will be ? , a middle class will only exist if the working class fights for it, and most people will be unhealthy, uneducated, overworked, underpaid, and unhappy.
Societies that use at least some socialism will have a greater quality of life. Societies that embrace socialism and democracy have the best overall quality of life. -
There has got to be a better way especially when you hear that 4 members of the Walton family ( Walmart heirs I Think ) make more money than 40 percent of Americans.
Be more specific T/S. Do you want shared revenue. Do you want communism? Like someone else said. Someone has to do the ? work. It is usually the ones with some bad breaks. Stop ? up, get your ? right and your kids will be able to enjoy your money, too! The American dream. -
@My_nameaintearl wrote: »Governments don't use capitalism. They are used by it.
What do you mean by "work better" here? Better how? And for who?
In societies dominated by capital, the wealthy will have a great quality of life, class mobility will be ? , a middle class will only exist if the working class fights for it, and most people will be unhealthy, uneducated, overworked, underpaid, and unhappy.
Societies that use at least some socialism will have a greater quality of life. Societies that embrace socialism and democracy have the best overall quality of life.
I wholeheartedly agree with this post, although I believe a mixture of socialism and capitalism would truly be best. Runaway capitalism only causes wealth to be concentrated to a few with the vast majority suffering from insecurity and anxiety about the future. I would love to live in a system where rent and other basic services are guaranteed, not at the mercy of an employer. -
I'm not sure if any of these economic philosophies matter much. It's human nature that we have to address here. Humankind's natural affinity for power, control, and greed. Though the way capitalism is structured, it definitely plays into the aforementioned vices. American capitalism is just a worst case scenario of exploitation. I would think that other better scenarios (which most likely incorporate other economic philosophies) have laws, policies, and regulations that prevent the kind of outright exploitation that is prevalent here in America. It's just that Americans hate government regulation and want to believe in rags to riches, absolute independence (which kind of sounds like anarchy), the American Dream, and other bs like that, but all of that isn't really practical today.
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I'm not sure if any of these economic philosophies matter much. It's human nature that we have to address here. Humankind's natural affinity for power, control, and greed. Though the way capitalism is structured, it definitely plays into the aforementioned vices. American capitalism is just a worst case scenario of exploitation. I would think that other better scenarios (which most likely incorporate other economic philosophies) have laws, policies, and regulations that prevent the kind of outright exploitation that is prevalent here in America. It's just that Americans hate government regulation and want to believe in rags to riches, absolute independence (which kind of sounds like anarchy), the American Dream, and other bs like that, but all of that isn't really practical today.
Sadly you are mostly right....I do believe most Americans want govt regulation though, as seen by many Americans upset at runaway power of corporations and their powerful influence on govt. For all the hatred some Americans have for govt programs, most support Medicare, Medicaid, SS, and a govt institutions that regulate pollution and medicine. It's just talk radio and mostly the Republicans that seem to hate govt the most, and in the process giving Americans a bad name. Greed and the Federal Reserve, along with inflation, is completely destroying the American Dream for most people. The country is a total wreck right now. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Sadly you are mostly right....I do believe most Americans want govt regulation though, as seen by many Americans upset at runaway power of corporations and their powerful influence on govt. For all the hatred some Americans have for govt programs, most support Medicare, Medicaid, SS, and a govt institutions that regulate pollution and medicine. It's just talk radio and mostly the Republicans that seem to hate govt the most, and in the process giving Americans a bad name. Greed and the Federal Reserve, along with inflation, is completely destroying the American Dream for most people. The country is a total wreck right now.
yeah that all certainly seems true.
at the bold - Oh, is this true though? I guess that I wouldn't really know about that. It just seemed to me that most Americans dont want government regulation. But yeah, when it comes to the general American population, I definitely could be overrepresenting Republicans and the Tea Party. -
Not everyone has these psychological needs.
True, but I'm guessing (obviously with no real definite evidence here) that most people have those psychological needs. Especially those who want power or are in power. And especially when you consider the current political system that demands power at all costs even if the given individual is not power hungry.I personally don't.
I don't either. And I'm sure that many of us feel the same way. But the current system has ways of pressuring even the most genuine people who are in power, or at least I think so. Obama might be a good example.People who do have high need for power should have their power limited
Agreed. -
I agree. I'd also add in, that different people have different levels of power ? . Those with the highest levels often being the ones who do crooked/illegal/inhumane things to obtain and maintain their power.
True.What do you mean by pressuring?
and please elaborate on the Obama reference.
Ok, I'll try to explain this as best as I can because I myself am finding it hard to explain or understand this well in my head. And it's all specualtion too.
An honest and genuine politician that actually wants to help America (and Americans) may find it difficult to do so because he has to conform to his party in order to actually have power because his power comes from his party. And his party may have to conform to the party's key demographics in order to actually have power because it's power comes from their people/supporters. And so through that process, that honest and genuine politician's initial goals and policies are thoroughly corrupted and alienated, not only because political parties are corrupt and greedy and American voters are self serving and stupid, but also because politicians must serve the system in order to even have the opportunity to be effective in what they do. This may mean compromising with policies that they know are disingenuous and harmful, lying blatantly, or serving the elite in ways that harm the nonelite beause political parties are made and funded by the elite.
I said Obama because it seemed to me that Obama actually looked like an honest candidate that could better America. But now, even though it seems that he's done some good, he's also doing some bad, and I always thought that this was so because he's trying to appease Republican Congressmen and the general American public so that he could gain re-election and not have everything he passes vetoed. But he, like all politicans, absolutely need power, regardless of how little or how it is done, in order to stay in power. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »I've been wondering about this question lately myself. Capitalism needs everlasting growth on a planet that has finite resources. Capitalism has created massive wealth, but only for the select few who own the means of production. American capitalism is something of a joke now though, since the govt loves to bail out banks and rich corporations while the middle class and working class get squeezed in due to inflation and few raise increases. Capitalism in America is now sick and needs some big time medicine. I personally think a combination of socialism and capitalism is best for the country. Bail outs for the poor and for the middle class is needed badly.
Seeing as though we're in a mixed economy and everything.......... -
Seeing as though we're in a mixed economy and everything..........
Yeah but it's mixed in favor of the rich and corporations. Corporations and rich people get bail outs and the rest of us pay the bills LOL.....sickening. But I guess it's the American way. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Yeah but it's mixed in favor of the rich and corporations. Corporations and rich people get bail outs and the rest of us pay the bills LOL.....sickening. But I guess it's the American way.
well of course it's the American way when majority of the population refuses to get educated enough to effectively use the system as its intended purpose
too many American citizens aren't active in politics, nor understand basic workings of their own govt................yet they have nerve to be surprised that the same system that is supposed to serve them is being used to exploit them
how you gon be mad about a new law when you don't even know who your congressman is? how are you going to be upset about a bailout by the fed govt when you don't even understand how budgets are created? how many states are in the red cause of blatant mismanagement, but now all of a sudden mofos want to get mad when taxes need to be raised?
capitalism with a few social programs should be more than enough IMO, but too many mofos refuse to do their part and then get upset because the next person has more :shrugs -
blakfyahking wrote: »well of course it's the American way when majority of the population refuses to get educated enough to effectively use the system as its intended purpose
too many American citizens aren't active in politics, nor understand basic workings of their own govt................yet they have nerve to be surprised that the same system that is supposed to serve them is being used to exploit them
how you gon be mad about a new law when you don't even know who your congressman is? how are you going to be upset about a bailout by the fed govt when you don't even understand how budgets are created? how many states are in the red cause of blatant mismanagement, but now all of a sudden mofos want to get mad when taxes need to be raised?
capitalism with a few social programs should be more than enough IMO, but too many mofos refuse to do their part and then get upset because the next person has more :shrugs
I would agree but sadly there are many many educated and even well off individuals who are getting screwed in the American capitalistic system. Banks and corporations have benefited from bail outs, which is fine, but why aren't there some bailout programs for everyone else who truly needs it? Like people who lost their jobs and now need some kind of help? If big business can get bailouts, why not those who truly need it? We got trillions of dollars for neverending wars, building schools, hospitals, and embassies in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet we cutting back in America on social programs and jobs? And benefits? People have every right to be upset at the state of the nation, in fact, 70 percent of Americans are. And guess what? Most Americans want the wars ended and most also want taxes on the rich increased. It's not about people being mad cuz the next man has more, people are ? because the man who already has more is getting bailed out just because his or her corporation paid the most money for campaign donations. The American capitalistic system is failing the average American, big time. That includes the politically active, educated, and poor alike. -
Totally agree. It's hard to stay positive when it's all about taking care of political stuff before the people.kingblaze84 wrote: »I would agree but sadly there are many many educated and even well off individuals who are getting screwed in the American capitalistic system. Banks and corporations have benefited from bail outs, which is fine, but why aren't there some bailout programs for everyone else who truly needs it? Like people who lost their jobs and now need some kind of help? If big business can get bailouts, why not those who truly need it? We got trillions of dollars for neverending wars, building schools, hospitals, and embassies in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet we cutting back in America on social programs and jobs? And benefits? People have every right to be upset at the state of the nation, in fact, 70 percent of Americans are. And guess what? Most Americans want the wars ended and most also want taxes on the rich increased. It's not about people being mad cuz the next man has more, people are ? because the man who already has more is getting bailed out just because his or her corporation paid the most money for campaign donations. The American capitalistic system is failing the average American, big time. That includes the politically active, educated, and poor alike.
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Totally agree. It's hard to stay positive when it's all about taking care of political stuff before the people.
Yeah sadly American govt is no longer really for the people, it's more for the rich guy who owns a fountain in his backward and sleeps on silk satin sheets, and also has about a couple hundred million in the bank. The working and middle class matter nothing to most politicians these days and that's why ? is doing what they gotta do to survive out here these days.... -
kingblaze84 wrote: »I would agree but sadly there are many many educated and even well off individuals who are getting screwed in the American capitalistic system. Banks and corporations have benefited from bail outs, which is fine, but why aren't there some bailout programs for everyone else who truly needs it? Like people who lost their jobs and now need some kind of help? If big business can get bailouts, why not those who truly need it? We got trillions of dollars for neverending wars, building schools, hospitals, and embassies in Afghanistan and Iraq, yet we cutting back in America on social programs and jobs? And benefits? People have every right to be upset at the state of the nation, in fact, 70 percent of Americans are. And guess what? Most Americans want the wars ended and most also want taxes on the rich increased. It's not about people being mad cuz the next man has more, people are ? because the man who already has more is getting bailed out just because his or her corporation paid the most money for campaign donations. The American capitalistic system is failing the average American, big time. That includes the politically active, educated, and poor alike.
oh I agree with you
but it all comes down to action
if the American people aren't willing to do ? , then they can't really get upset that their govt is working for them anymore
if you aren't willing to organize and make moves, then basically you are cosigning the current power structure IMO
I say to those who aren't happy with the current state of affairs in the US, be ready and willing for a revolution.............or move to another country
cause it's true when they say that freedom isn't free -
blakfyahking wrote: »oh I agree with you
but it all comes down to action
if the American people aren't willing to do ? , then they can't really get upset that their govt is working for them anymore
if you aren't willing to organize and make moves, then basically you are cosigning the current power structure IMO
I say to those who aren't happy with the current state of affairs in the US, be ready and willing for a revolution.............or move to another country
cause it's true when they say that freedom isn't free
Ha, damn I actually agree with you.....well movements gotta start somewhere, maybe this is a start? Or maybe not but every movement has to make a start somewhere and this could be the start of something special. Maybe not a complete revolution now but a way to get politicians' attention as to how bad things are for so many out here. -
? !!! - if you've NEVER been out of this country? how would you know what true freedom is? - Yeah nothings free but TRUE freedom allows the individual to succeed or fail depending on what said person feels success really is. I SWEAR TO ? - most within this site have got to be the MOST UNGRATEFUL American people this earth has ever known....always ? about one thing or another.
You keep saying people on this site are complaining or "? ", but yet 70+ percent of Americans are also dissatisfied with the state of things in America today. So 70% of Americans, including most seniors, are just whiners?? ORRRR maybe something wrong is going on in the country right now, problems bigger than Obama? (I say that because you blame Obama for everything without also putting blame on Republicans) -
Here's a very interesting poll on capitalism among Americans......Blacks, young people, and liberals favor socialism the most.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/young-people-socialism_n_1175218.html
Young people -- the collegiate and post-college crowd, who have served as the most visible face of the Occupy Wall Street movement -- might be getting more comfortable with socialism. That's the surprising result from a Pew Research Center poll that aims to measure American sentiments toward different political labels.
The poll, published Wednesday, found that while Americans overall tend to oppose socialism by a strong margin -- 60 percent say they have a negative view of it, versus just 31 percent who say they have a positive view -- socialism has more fans than opponents among the 18-29 crowd. Forty-nine percent of people in that age bracket say they have a positive view of socialism; only 43 percent say they have a negative view.
Still, the nationwide Occupy demonstrations notwithstanding, socialism doesn't score very well in other age groups in the Pew poll, or across other demographic categories.
Pew broke down its results by age, race, income and political affiliation, as well as support for the Occupy Wall Street and Tea Party movements. There were only two other groups among whom socialism's positives outweighed its negatives -- blacks, who say they favor socialism 55 to 36 percent, and liberal Democrats, who say they favor socialism 59 to 39 percent. These were also the only two groups to show net favor for socialism in the 2010 poll.
