The nature of suffering

The_African
The_African Members Posts: 174
edited March 2010 in The Social Lounge
Life inevitably involves suffering and although most people romanticise suffering as having some higher meaning or being necessary for some greater good, it simply is not. The only instrumental value distress can ever have is in preventing or alleviating even more distress, it is always intrinsically disvaluable. There is no good that comes from factory farming, clinical depression and mental illness, extreme poverty, war etc. We don't need to suffer in order to experience happiness anymore than we need to starve to eat, they are two separate feelings. Natural selection favored animals who can suffer because they were more likely to propagate their genes than were their always happy-go-lucky counterparts, not because suffering was in their best interests or necessary for their well-being. Even if happiness did require suffering, being happy isn't preferable to being unconscious since nobody who is unconscious minds being unconscious. There is something fundamentally wrong with suffering, there is nothing wrong with being unconscious. I see only two solutions to human suffering : develop the technology to genetically engineer human embryos who will be physiologically incapable of experiencing any form of distress (be it anger, fear, boredom, depression &c.) or voluntarily stop procreating so the human race will phase out within the next century.

Comments

  • The_African
    The_African Members Posts: 174
    edited March 2010
    ether-i-am wrote: »
    WTF?

    ? you sad?

    No, I'm not sad. I only feel that the popular claim of suffering being 'necessary' to appreciate happiness or serving some higher purpose is erroneous. It's just a defense mechanism we employ to deal with the daily tribulations of our lives. Bioengineering and/or antinatalism are the only long term solutions to human suffering that I can think of.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    Hmmmm, what is the something that is fundamentally wrong with suffering?
  • The_African
    The_African Members Posts: 174
    edited March 2010
    Hmmmm, what is the something that is fundamentally wrong with suffering?

    Suffering is wrong. It's aversive. We know that suffering (not 'pain' mind you, but suffering) is wrong which is why we avoid it.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    Suffering is wrong. It's aversive. We know that suffering (not 'pain' mind you, but suffering) is wrong which is why we avoid it.

    If its so aversive, makes you wonder why so many humans continue on in the same ways so that suffering is sure to follow. It is almost as though humans in a weird kind of way enjoy suffering.
  • CapitalB
    CapitalB Members Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    If its so aversive, makes you wonder why so many humans continue on in the same ways so that suffering is sure to follow. It is almost as though humans in a weird kind of way enjoy suffering.

    they think its their ticket into heaven..
    the thought ..THOUGHT.. of suffering ur entire existence on earth to live eternally in peace and pleasure is too good to pass up..

    smh @ people who follow religion..
  • Jay Pee
    Jay Pee Members Posts: 761
    edited March 2010
    I consider myself a truth seekers, I am not religious and I believe the theory of evolution has many holes, but anyway it would be nice if you worded your thread differently....instead of acting like you know more then everyone else when we don't even know about the other 99.9 percent of the universe. We barely know anything about earth, the mind/consciousness connection, certain mechacnism of how things work. react and why.
  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    CapitalB wrote: »
    they think its their ticket into heaven..
    the thought ..THOUGHT.. of suffering ur entire existence on earth to live eternally in peace and pleasure is too good to pass up..

    smh @ people who follow religion..

    People all over the world, religious or not, do things that are sure as rain to bring suffering upon themselves. Habitually they do this, knowingly they do it. It's like they can't help themselves from bringing it on.
  • CapitalB
    CapitalB Members Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    People all over the world, religious or not, do things that are sure as rain to bring suffering upon themselves. Habitually they do this, knowingly they do it. It's like they can't help themselves from bringing it on.

    oh i know.. i keep tellin people ? only happens to them because they either a. allowed it.. or b. called for it..
    religion helps them cope and escape responsibility. haha
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    It is really weird how people seem to PURPOSELY follow a path that will lead them straight onto suffering. A good example is people that want to have kids. Having kids will bring a lot of pain in the form of financial strain, crying, nagging, whining, and the worst part of all, growing up. Yet the average person will have 2-3 kids in their lifetime worldwide...I truly don't understand human nature sometimes. It's like we're programmed to either destroy ourselves or make life a lot harder than it has to be. I guess religion texts aid in this stupidity, but shame on people if they fall for the scam that is known as organized religion.

    I'm happy I have complete freedom of mind, a 2000 year old book written by people who smoked ? and supported slavery has no no place in my life. ? the Bible and Koran.....bet ya'll didn't know the Koran sanctions child marriages?
  • DarcSkies777
    DarcSkies777 Members Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    ruw61d.jpg

    ...good thread though.
  • Chike
    Chike Members Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭
    edited March 2010
    Life inevitably involves suffering and although most people romanticise suffering as having some higher meaning or being necessary for some greater good, it simply is not. The only instrumental value distress can ever have is in preventing or alleviating even more distress, it is always intrinsically disvaluable. There is no good that comes from factory farming, clinical depression and mental illness, extreme poverty, war etc. We don't need to suffer in order to experience happiness anymore than we need to starve to eat, they are two separate feelings. Natural selection favored animals who can suffer because they were more likely to propagate their genes than were their always happy-go-lucky counterparts, not because suffering was in their best interests or necessary for their well-being. Even if happiness did require suffering, being happy isn't preferable to being unconscious since nobody who is unconscious minds being unconscious. There is something fundamentally wrong with suffering, there is nothing wrong with being unconscious. I see only two solutions to human suffering : develop the technology to genetically engineer human embryos who will be physiologically incapable of experiencing any form of distress (be it anger, fear, boredom, depression &c.) or voluntarily stop procreating so the human race will phase out within the next century.



    You had me up until the bold... wtf?