Is there a such thing as “Real” Hip Hop?
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Lol @ the Common Sense reference. I really don't think Sweet was one of the best records of last year either
Nice article @Traestar , props on the drop. As for my opinion, well, I largely agree with your second post.
I don't necessarily condemn an artist upon the moves that they make. I care about the music, period. But it is difficult to accept the authenticity of an artist who's droppin' gems, if they have done the opposite in the past.
But in all honesty, an artist who has stayed true to their craft may never prosper if their lane isn't popular. That may result in them having to work 5 days a week like everyone else. That choice is up to them. I'll respect them for choosing that route, but I could also respect them for trying to make a crossover hit (it's a cruel world after all).
But a group like CYNE who drop a track like 'First Person' just earn instant respect from me as their music is real. It is the truth. It is what is faced in the real world by your average person. And real hip hop, if it exists, encompasses these things. It's who you are, as an artist or a listener. As others have now stated, 'real hip hop' is made by the artist who feels their produce through and through, rather than the artist who is out for the $$$ alone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg7E96VG7pkWhy is the writer worried about what some rappers think of the musical genre they're into?
I'm done with these arguments. I listen TO WHATEVER THE ? I want ..
At the end of the day, its just music. Everyone's different. The way the melodies of a song capture one person might not be the same for others and vice versa
You reminded me of Bernie Mac with this post, RIP.
Co-sign the whole post though.
@achewon87 Great drop!! Co-sign your whole post. I feel the same way about Rick Ross too LOL.
But I can't hate either. If you like it, listen to it.
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I agree with what you said man! My thing is is that the mainstream has really put a gridlock on rappers in the game who embraced knowledge, respect, and creativity. They've made the rules that created this monotinous illusion of a culture that they wanted the people involved within it to be destroyed. Sorry it took so long to respond, mind has been all over the place lately, lol
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I agree with what you said man! My thing is is that the mainstream has really put a gridlock on rappers in the game who embraced knowledge, respect, and creativity. They've made the rules that created this monotinous illusion of a culture that they wanted the people involved within it to be destroyed. Sorry it took so long to respond, mind has been all over the place lately, lol
Agreed & not to worry, I'm away on holiday for another two weeks, but I'll be back posting many threads upon my return.
Off on a bear tour though, so that is if I don't get eaten! -
I agree with what you said man! My thing is is that the mainstream has really put a gridlock on rappers in the game who embraced knowledge, respect, and creativity. They've made the rules that created this monotinous illusion of a culture that they wanted the people involved within it to be destroyed. Sorry it took so long to respond, mind has been all over the place lately, lol
Agreed & not to worry, I'm away on holiday for another two weeks, but I'll be back posting many threads upon my return.
Off on a bear tour though, so that is if I don't get eaten!
haha, I hear ya!
Here's part 2 BTW peoplez
http://youtu.be/J9hn-hAYsP4 -
I agree with what you said man! My thing is is that the mainstream has really put a gridlock on rappers in the game who embraced knowledge, respect, and creativity. They've made the rules that created this monotinous illusion of a culture that they wanted the people involved within it to be destroyed. Sorry it took so long to respond, mind has been all over the place lately, lol
I agree with what you posted here. The lack of respect that mainstream artist have for their fans is appalling.Think about what people listen to. Rappers talking about how much money they have and how you ain't ? cause you got nothing, basically talking down to the listener; it's akin to mental prison, you listen to ? like that all day everyday 100% it has an effect on the individual, mental shackles. They are not educating anyone, no lessons are being taught other than I got all this ? by selling drugs, which is a huge lie to impart on fragile minds. I mean even Jay-Z has the world believing he sold drugs once as a kingpin, really? Get the ? outta here with that. I don't believe you, you need more people..lol
Mainstream hip-hop is poison for the mind, but it is still hip-hop.
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I agree with what you said man! My thing is is that the mainstream has really put a gridlock on rappers in the game who embraced knowledge, respect, and creativity. They've made the rules that created this monotinous illusion of a culture that they wanted the people involved within it to be destroyed. Sorry it took so long to respond, mind has been all over the place lately, lol
I agree with what you posted here. The lack of respect that mainstream artist have for their fans is appalling.Think about what people listen to. Rappers talking about how much money they have and how you ain't ? cause you got nothing, basically talking down to the listener; it's akin to mental prison, you listen to ? like that all day everyday 100% it has an effect on the individual, mental shackles. They are not educating anyone, no lessons are being taught other than I got all this ? by selling drugs, which is a huge lie to impart on fragile minds. I mean even Jay-Z has the world believing he sold drugs once as a kingpin, really? Get the ? outta here with that. I don't believe you, you need more people..lol
Mainstream hip-hop is poison for the mind, but it is still hip-hop.
Tariq Nasheed talks about the "White Daddy Syndrome" in alot of his podcasts, especially this episode:
Episode #291-"Blacks Suffering From White Daddy Syndome"
And thats what I feel is whats going on with today's media and how they portray blacks. From hip hop to sports to even politics, black people had to tear down their own race just to be accepted by society and get the checks that they get. Like you said, when you down talk the listeners into thinking that you are superior to them in which you are definitely not, saying that you sold on the block, pop bottles, or get money, you're really faking it to your fans and only in your heart crush your well being in the process. And I'm not even backing up the fans, they are just as brain dead believing into a lie.
As for the athletes, its more on the perception of opportunity, they are in terrible home conditions and are forced to think that the only way out is sports or rapping.
Black Politicians are more "fake it til you make it" mentality that they are thinking that doing whatever it takes to get to a certain position and they would do anything to get to, just as in hip hop with the mainstream idols in Diddy, Jigga, Kanye, Jeezy, Ross. etc. Many people are given the illusion that they are powerful and wealthy, but have you seen their general ledger? Are they really what they say they are, and how do you know that they didn't cheat someone else from a spot to get where they are?
This interview with Ice T is beautiful and I believe him wholeheartedly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH-D21c79GI -
Got Dayum! Seems I opened a can of worms here.
What you summarized in the post is the truth. Chappelle brought it up in an interview on Oprah, about how black actors & comedians are forced to dress up as women, this is clearly done to make it more palpable for white folks to accept them and perceive them as not threatening, which is degrading. Definitely comes off as some sort of hazing or initiation ritual does it not?
The point you brought up about athletes is very true as I have a coworker who's previous employment was as a youth worker, he was a teacher for youth who were recently released from Juvie. He told me that 80-85% of the kids were black and that their future plans were to either be a rapper, basketball player or crime kingpin. ? was sad to me as those 3 "career" options are all the kids think they can accomplish. Not sure who is to blame but some of it has to fall on mainstream hip-hop and the sphere of influence they project. Who put the kids in that frame of mind?
And 100% most of these artist are lying about the financial success they have. What you see in the videos (Cars, mansions, boats etc.) are rented i.e. The Roots - Do What They Do. And if we are being honest, then I would also say 100% that these people cheated their way to the top. Seriously Puff and The Lox are a great example, someone will argue that Puff was just being a savvy business man when it came to the publishing, but I say if your dishonest and immoral when dealing with people in business then you deserve whatever bad karma comes your way and I do not consider you to be a savvy business man, just a ? !
Ice T was speaking truth in this vid.
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Well thats why Diddy doesn't have a good reputation in the industry, and on all aspects too.
I seen that Dave Chappelle video, and thats one example of it too. The blame goes to the people who control
the media, they are the ones who decide what plays on TV/Radio and what doesn't. The artists in mainstream hip hop to blame...yea and I love what Harry Belafonte said recently about Jay-Z and Beyonce not being socially responsible. Beyonce I don't care how many philanthropic things you've done in the past...racism is still big in this world, capitalism is the driver of racism, you guys represent the "but they've made it" image that they have put you and Jigga in, and until you help fight injustices that happen everyday, Harry Belafonte's words would burn slow. Trayvon Martin's killer is still walking around, so this is what Mr. Belafonte is talking about, using your power to reach the masses to point out injustices.
Sorry to go alittle out there, but think about it. These same artists are looked upon as idols, thats power. And they
have not used that power for good. And Diddy is funny, every single dude from Bad Boy is practically bankrupt but Diddy...what does that say? Where's Craig Mack at?? -
Valid observation, they are idol like to these fans. But that is something that is not exclusive to hip-hop, it is happening across the globe in many variations. I did not know that Belafonte actually went in on Jay & Beyonce like that but he brought up a great point about them not using there power for the better good or pointing out social injustice.
Back in the day, even before my old ass was born 60's - early 70's, musicians used to stand for things and were pretty active and it was not just black artist; it was all of them. Nowadays artist only promote themselves and do what the label tells them to do, no ? , cause they don't want to get cut out from whatever riches they might gain by being compliant with the request.
If we take out race from the equation of the Martin shooting we are still left with a rather disgusting act, an adult killing a child and it shocks me that he may actually walk. And truthfully I do not need to hear both sides of the story cause I will tell you what, if someone was stalking me like that at that age they would 100% get a confrontation.
Somethings to ponder.
- The word "Hebrew" is censored from the "All About the Benjamins" but the N-bomb is dropped uncountable times on that album and is not censored once. One is extremely offensive and degrading and the other is the word "Hebrew"
- Try to find the song "Nature of the Threat" by Ras Kass on youtube, you won't be able to. I am shocked that "Behold a Pale Horse" by The Boogie Monsters is still up, nowhere near the popularity of Ras Kass but a still a song that touches on the same type of subject matter.
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I have had some much trouble finding it on Youtube. Thx, added it to my favs.
How many pages did you go back? 2-3?
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I have had some much trouble finding it on Youtube. Thx, added it to my favs.
How many pages did you go back? 2-3?
I searched the title and artist on google -
And you see we're going beyond the scope of the thread, but yet it is very relevant and should be discussed. Because as people are talking about whats "Real Hip Hop" and whats not, they're worried about the image it portrays yet aren't willing to talk about how the same industry is being criminalized and demonized yet the culture is constantly being ripped of its trends...ask Ryan Lochte.
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Never tried that, used Youtube search and came up empty numerous times.
It is very relevant to the discussion, even though it seems OT. Image is very important to the mainstream, reason why artist like Joel Ortiz never blew up.
Just read the full article.
LOL @ Beyonce publicist talking about charities, that is part of the problem too, folks give money to charities and that is it, it ends there. I will not go in on the veracity of charities as I think they are a bit of a scam as only some of the proceeds actually go to the cause. Again they make it about money and nothing else, and I think that is what Belafonte was sort of saying, this guy marched with activist putting himself out there. Would it have killed Jay & Beyonce to show up with the rest of the folks at the Martin protest, it would have been nothing but time, no check needed to be cut for that.
And Jay should be ashamed of himself claiming to be some sort of owner of the Nets and having folks evicted out of Brooklyn for the Nets arena, shameful. Dude is like an old jazz club owner, just the black front to white money who have no concern for Brooklyn or the people and dude straight pied pipered them. He owns one-fifteenth of one percent of the team for $1 mil.He should have been on the other side of this debate but he chased the money and screwed the people. -
Never tried that, used Youtube search and came up empty numerous times.
Google is also connected with Youtube, so search and go to the videos tab -
Never tried that, used Youtube search and came up empty numerous times.
It is very relevant to the discussion, even though it seems OT. Image is very important to the mainstream, reason why artist like Joel Ortiz never blew up.
Just read the full article.
LOL @ Beyonce publicist talking about charities, that is part of the problem too, folks give money to charities and that is it, it ends there. I will not go in on the veracity of charities as I think they are a bit of a scam as only some of the proceeds actually go to the cause. Again they make it about money and nothing else, and I think that is what Belafonte was sort of saying, this guy marched with activist putting himself out there. Would it have killed Jay & Beyonce to show up with the rest of the folks at the Martin protest, it would have been nothing but time, no check needed to be cut for that.
And Jay should be ashamed of himself claiming to be some sort of owner of the Nets and having folks evicted out of Brooklyn for the Nets arena, shameful. Dude is like an old jazz club owner, just the black front to white money who have no concern for Brooklyn or the people and dude straight pied pipered them. He owns one-fifteenth of one percent of the team for $1 mil.He should have been on the other side of this debate but he chased the money and screwed the people.
Glad you said that, really overlooked! And yea you're right, he owns that small of an amount to be doing anything but decorations. -
DOPE Thread
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Okay well first thing first, there is no government takeover of the radio. Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which is: "The goal of this new law is to let anyone enter any communications business -- to let any communications business compete in any market against any other." http://transition.fcc.gov/telecom.html
If you are going to make an argument it should be a true one.
Now with that said the deregulation of communications that began under Clinton (in TCA of 96) radio stations have more power than ever. Now companies no long must have competition and a large radio network can buy up smaller ones and control more of the airwaves. The Original Author misrepresented that as a Government takeover, but in reality it is a CORPORATE takeover.
What you have now is extremely large entertainment corporations (like Warner Bros, Viacom, & Disney among others) making decisions on what's played on the radio and how often. Considering all the smaller local stations are probably owned by one of the giants (or they survive due to advertisement money that comes from one of the giants) the likelihood of independent artists breaking through is minimal (This is why we should fight like hell against any regulation of the internet). All that matters because these record labels are also in league with the entertainment giants (Warner Bros makes movies and has a music division for instance).
Now "real" hip-hop has always meant HONEST music, it was always CULTURAL, the MC/DJ represented the culture of their city/state/neighborhood. But now its all IMAGE, that's what the entertainment giants are selling. The image of a baller/dope pusher/gangster/thug/ladies man/whatever can make them some money MC. They don't care about culture or about honesty, its all about the money.
So for me I separate real from fake by the backstory of the MC. DMX was always real, he might not have been pop-locking and wearing Adidas but he represents where he's from and speaks HIS OWN voice. As opposed to guys like "Rick Ross" who are selling an image that one of the Giants thinks is marketable. There's a difference there, you don't have to be underground to be "real" you can be mainstream and "real", you can be underground and be gimmicky, its all about the artists. Sometimes we will get a Kanye West or a Drake that breaks barriers and changes the image of what a rapper should be but it shouldn't be expected from everybody because while we slowly lose control over the images of rap, we hold on to the soul of it. -
There's a difference there, you don't have to be underground to be "real" you can be mainstream and "real", you can be underground and be gimmicky, its all about the artists. Sometimes we will get a Kanye West or a Drake that breaks barriers and changes the image of what a rapper should be but it shouldn't be expected from everybody because while we slowly lose control over the images of rap, we hold on to the soul of it.
I can't argue with that because its true, but the corporations like you said are selling the image. Which in fact they will continue to ride the cash cow to infinity, caring nothing about the lives it destroys. The reason I choose underground hip hop music (I'm only speaking for myself, my experience, and why I promote it), is because even tho you do get the gimmicks in there, some of them which are my favorites, its really the unlimited variety of artists out there that bring something to the table without restrictions to the listener listening to it. You can search bandcamp, Youtube, soundcloud, whatever resource you use and find someone new. Not saying all out there are great, but when you go to a undergroundhiphop.com or sandboxautomatic.com or rappersiknow.com, those vendors go out to bring new fresh music out to the masses without someone saying "its not relevant". You choose who you want to listen to, not the radio/TV.So for me I separate real from fake by the backstory of the MC. DMX was always real, he might not have been pop-locking and wearing Adidas but he represents where he's from and speaks HIS OWN voice. As opposed to guys like "Rick Ross" who are selling an image that one of the Giants thinks is marketable.
I'll never forget Rick Ross debut on Trina's song wearing a tight ass Lakers jersey:
http://youtu.be/VNFpaj095C4
Now look at em
But onto what you said about DMX, thats true and when Irv Gotti had his Sway interview last year (we talked about it in the Essence as well), what he said was similar to what you said about DMX
http://www.hiphopstan.com/irv-gotti-rapfix-interview-jay-z-dmx-nas-ja-rule/
The first 7 mins he talks about DMX and Jay-Z beef and talks about believing in the Dog. -
@Jono Great points, the corporations will continually ? the music, but hip-hop heads hold the soul. The spirit will always go on as long as folks push the culture.
The corporations control the airwaves and the images we get and they are clearly getting the better deal. With Youtube, Twitter & Facebook they have tied in marketing campaigns, for free. We are going down a dangerous path, soon society is going to be like "The Running Man" or "The Hunger Games" we are almost there. A daily browse of the WSHH video section confirms this, and reality TV crosses the line constantly. This morning I was reading the Jojo thread, the 17 yr "rapper" who got shot up and killed. Back in my day we would have had a "Self Destruction" type song for this and other tragedies (Trayvon Martin) that have happened through the year, sure we have memorial songs and what not, but no collective of big time artist getting together to talk about a subject like this and talking out against it. What happened to hip-hop's social awareness?
DMX is possibly the realest dude to ever come out in the mainstream by a country mile. Someone like this would not survive the industry today. Which is too bad cause the mainstream seriously needs a change of climate. -
@achewon87 the game has changed completely...to the degree where kids today are glorifying their violent ignorant ways. That Chief Keef tweet about Lil Jo had to be up there with Soulja Boy as one of the most trifling comments/tweets/posts ever. (For those who don't remember, Soulja Boy made a comment during an interview saying "Shout out to the slave masters! Without them we'd still be in Africa. We wouldn't be here to get this ice and tattoos.")
http://www.hiphopdx.com/index/news/id.8005/title.soulja-boy-shouts-out-slave-masters
I have a Ms Wanja Lange from Germany who recently responded to the Chief Keef situation..I should have that up as a thread shortly.
I gotta be honest, I do remember the Fight the Power movements, Self Destruction movement (my dad still has that record)... but they only made little to no difference to the systems oppressive structure. Even Spike Lee along time ago during one of the awards said "This movie has been out and we still have the same problems". But its even worse now, because ALOT of the stars today want to do something thats going to reward a paycheck afterwards. This killed any movements toward injustice, racism, and public school miseducation. The only ones doing it now are motivation speakers and their significance depends on the consciousness of the audience. And I'm not saying all stars, or rap stars, I'm saying as I told you before and what Harry Belafonte said, the ones who have that power to make a statement.
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It seems to me that there is a disconnect. People seem to be mistaking "Hip-Hop" for "rap music." Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live. "Hip-Hop" in my very humble opinion is NOT "whatever you think it is." That's like saying Islam is "whatever you think it is." Of course things change and evolve but the core intent of the culture (Hip-Hop is not an art...it's a culture comprising of different art forms and the largest segment...the party people) have to remain intact. Hip-Hop was and always will be counter-culture. The culture at the time Hip-Hop was formed was Disco. Hip-Hop utilized disco breaks as a rebellion against the disco aesthetic. Now, Hip-Hop "culture" is no longer anti-anything. It's super-conformity. It wants to be exactly like everything that is cool instead of rebelling against the "cool" and becoming the anti-cool. De La Soul had it right when, after their first album became embedded into pop culture, they backlashed and went in the opposite direction for De La Soul is Dead. THIS is the exact aesthetic of the Hip-Hop mind. P.E.ace.
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JohnnyJuice wrote: »It seems to me that there is a disconnect. People seem to be mistaking "Hip-Hop" for "rap music." Rap is something you do, Hip-Hop is something you live. "Hip-Hop" in my very humble opinion is NOT "whatever you think it is." That's like saying Islam is "whatever you think it is." Of course things change and evolve but the core intent of the culture (Hip-Hop is not an art...it's a culture comprising of different art forms and the largest segment...the party people) have to remain intact. Hip-Hop was and always will be counter-culture. The culture at the time Hip-Hop was formed was Disco. Hip-Hop utilized disco breaks as a rebellion against the disco aesthetic. Now, Hip-Hop "culture" is no longer anti-anything. It's super-conformity. It wants to be exactly like everything that is cool instead of rebelling against the "cool" and becoming the anti-cool. De La Soul had it right when, after their first album became embedded into pop culture, they backlashed and went in the opposite direction for De La Soul is Dead. THIS is the exact aesthetic of the Hip-Hop mind. P.E.ace.
Peace Johnny Juice. Well taken message! Not sure if you're responding to the blog or this thread here, but well appreciated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdJgVf4l1A0
