Do you think people could ever be made capable of policing themselves?

LUClEN
LUClEN Members Posts: 20,559 ✭✭✭✭✭
I met a real life Libertarian for the first time a few weeks ago. Dude is also an anarchist though. He had some interesting things to say, one of them was that police would not really be needed if people could be shown from a young age what is proper and what is not so that we as citizens can simply police ourselves for the most part.

When I think about this though I imagine people trying to shove their idea of what is right and wrong down other people's throats. Citizens arrests because someone has their fork on the wrong side of the plate and ? . Not only that, but currently people behave in ways that benefit them regardless of who suffers. I doubt any sort of conditioning and social programming could really eliminate that.

Any libertarians share that view? How can we expect citizens to police themselves if citizens are constantly doing ? things?

Comments

  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Self-policing is an informal system of social control, it usually involved banishment, shunning, public humiliation etc all the stuff that still goes on today when somebody violates morality or societal norms.


    When people come up with systems and ideas like this its usually only effective in small groups, like the settlers when they first came here, small villages etc. When you reach a massive million people in a city its impossible to do.


    Ya' know, The police as they exist today (as a paramilitary force) is not what it was invented for. The actual only real reason for police is to protect private property and to enforce laws (social control).


    Over the years the police have gone from citizen watch groups and slave patrols to "professional" unofficial military style organizations. The police have and always will be a necessary headache in society.


    WHY do we need police?
    Well to enforce laws, to maintain order as much as possible, and to have an unbiased third party to intervene in situations of large scale. While this is not always true, it has been proven that the mere presence of police can alter criminal behavior.


    The problem with police today, other than being militarized is the lack of accountability. They feel like there's no rule they can't cross and be forgiven for it. Few times are police officers actually arrested for crimes they committed or violations of civil rights they committed mainly because the citizens are outraged at an action for temporarily. People are mad for a few weeks and then it blows over and they are on to something else. Its the same reason politicians get away with so much.


    Only time police really get into trouble is "high profile" incidents like Rodney King, Malice Green, the 7yr old baby shot here in Detroit a year or so ago, etc otherwise police have free reign to do whatever to whomever and can easily come up with some "good" reason for doing it. Like the Tremaine McMillian ordeal today (or was it yesterday?) The 14yr old boy, they charged him with a felony just so they can have a reason/excuse to do what they did, it doesn't matter if it'll stick or not, because there are a measure of people who support the police blindly, just like there are those who support them blindly.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    *hate them blindly.
  • Maximus Rex
    Maximus Rex Members Posts: 6,354 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is philosophy is like communism, damn good theory, but impractical in large groups. In order for the people to police themselves, they community can't be any larger than fifteen, maybe twenty people at the most. Mind you that can't be more than five ? in that group, put more than five ? in the group, the second thing thing this society would need is a police force, the third thing is a jail.
  • High Revolutionary
    High Revolutionary Members Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »

    How can we expect citizens to police themselves if citizens are constantly doing ? things?

    How can we expect politicians to police us when politicians are constantly doing ? things?
  • Plutarch
    Plutarch Members Posts: 3,239 ✭✭✭✭✭
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    I met a real life Libertarian for the first time a few weeks ago. Dude is also an anarchist though.

    Just throwing my two cents in here, but I would say that a libertarian-anarchist speaks for a small minority of libertarians in America.
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    He had some interesting things to say, one of them was that police would not really be needed if people could be shown from a young age what is proper and what is not so that we as citizens can simply police ourselves for the most part.

    To me, this seems true in theory but largely impractical. I think others here have pointed this out already though.
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    When I think about this though I imagine people trying to shove their idea of what is right and wrong down other people's throats. Citizens arrests because someone has their fork on the wrong side of the plate and ? .

    Agreed. But I think that this is the case regardless of the type of government any nation has. Human beings are oddly enough very concerned with telling other human beings how they should live their lives.
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    Not only that, but currently people behave in ways that benefit them regardless of who suffers.

    Agreed. We can talk about a perfect world all we want. But such an ideal is impossible and naïve because humans beings are imperfect and “sinful,” and here you pointed out humans’ natural tendency towards greed and egocentricity/selfishness.
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    I doubt any sort of conditioning and social programming could really eliminate that.

    Agreed.
    RodrigueZz wrote: »
    Any libertarians share that view? How can we expect citizens to police themselves if citizens are constantly doing ? things?

    I could call myself a libertarian, but I don’t hold that view.

    My view basically centers around the idea that limited government is ideal. No government (anarchism) is too extreme just as absolute government (authoritarianism) is too extreme. Limited government offers freedom and liberty to citizens and leaves the government (which unfortunately will inevitably become corrupt to varying degrees) to protect and represent its citizens as well as uphold the law.
    But it’s the citizens who ultimately have the power and the ability to define their government. How do we make the citizens use this power responsibly and wisely? I personally think that the Constitution, education, and a society with little to no censorship will facilitate an environment where progressive discussion and ideas are produced and upheld.
  • Batman.
    Batman. Members Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes. I'm an example.

    This is also an example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XiSnCt9fDc

  • BiblicalAtheist
    BiblicalAtheist Members Posts: 15,668 ✭✭✭✭✭
    We are so far gone from this idea it is not remotely possible at this time. Imo, ? has to hit the mf fan so hard ? is so broke humanity actually has to sit back and really contemplate what is value and what is not. Right now? I do not believe humans have the capability to police themselves. Right now, they need to be told how to behave. Psychopaths with no life of their own.

  • WYRM
    WYRM Members Posts: 993 ✭✭✭✭
    Once the herd is thinned a bit and we abandon our ? -sociopolitical culture. The infrastructure of our current model would have to crumble first. It can not be done in our current configuration but is possible eventually. It is within our ability but we have stacked many things against ourselves.
  • Batman.
    Batman. Members Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes.

    Also google vice Mexican vigilantes
  • waterproof
    waterproof Members Posts: 9,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2013
    Yes old ancient black civilization is the proof of that....
  • Convict Cartel
    Convict Cartel Members Posts: 30
    Once we learn to work with eachother, we can do it once again no problem
  • Say What
    Say What Members Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2013
    For those that say it is possible how? People are hedonistic and are naturally going for what feels good. When that is outside of social norms we have people to take care of it for us
  • BIGG WILL
    BIGG WILL Members Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It could work in a limited size community.
  • cannonspike1994
    cannonspike1994 Members Posts: 1,509 ✭✭✭✭✭
    yes we dont need rulers.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Become GODS! Quit allowing a feral beast with no humanity to tell you bizarre ? !
  • GSonII
    GSonII Members Posts: 2,689 ✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2013
    White people would have to be killed off on a large scale because they always want to try and run things on a large scale to hide the fact that they cant control themselves.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    Ajackson17 wrote: »
    Become GODS! Quit allowing a feral beast with no humanity to tell you bizarre ? !
    everyone declaring themselves gods doesn't really seem conducive to self-policing, to be honest