Lose Mass for Leanness

Miltown Marauder
Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited May 2010 in The Weight Room
my number one goal working out from the jump was to become lean, but my body just want mass. I don't over eat, matterafact I barely eat enough for my 500 deficit. How can I do this without losing alot of muscle? I jumprope for cardio.

Comments

  • knivez
    knivez Members Posts: 57
    edited May 2010
    protein intake should equal your LBM at least. as long as u get that in daily you shouldn't lose any muscle. only thing left would be to reduce your cals or if you're fine with your current weight then just start reducing the weight you usually lift and instead add more reps. Most likely you've been lifting heavy(maxing out a 10 reps) so you're getting bigger as opposed to just lean. Only other scenario i can think of is your deficit isn't enough. Might need to reduce more cals...if you're trying to go down in weight that is.


    Whats your current weight? you seem pretty lean already. if you think you're too big you'd have to drop weight a little i think to be where you want. there are some good cardio based workouts that will get you lean pretty nicely like Insanity. Wall H could speak on that further i haven't messed with it but it looks legit. No matter what you do though you need that protein if you don't want to lose muscle.
  • Emerald City Rolla
    Emerald City Rolla Members Posts: 564
    edited May 2010
    What is your time frame? Also, you need more specific, measurable goals than "lean up" or else you either won't see the results you want or you won't achieve them in the time frame you're working with. At a 500 cal/day deficit you'll be 3500 cal/week in terms of overall loss. A pound of fat is equal to 3500 cal and is a good ammount to lose within a week time period without also burning LBM. What K-dog is saying in terms of protein intake is correct and I would reccomend what he has to say, but I would add that I wouldnt increase your deficit past about 700-750 cal/day as the 1.5 pounds per week is the upper limit to controlled fat loss with minimal muscle loss.

    Further more, something you may want to try in the gym is to drop your reps to about the 6-8 range (with an increase of weight in relation to the lesser reps) as any high rep/high overall volume lifting routine will most likely, but not always, cause your central nervous system to burn out. Maintaining heavy lifts preserves the muscle while also preserving your CNS and is a more sustainable appraoch for most during a cutting phase.

    As for cardio, there are many ways to approach it for fat loss. Some people perfer to do cardio after having a small meal and some on an empty stomach. I avoid that debate entirely and do my cardio first thing in the morning for a number of reasons. First, your body will not have outside carbohydrates (a meal) to burn and will be depleted of glycogen stores. Since the glycogen is not present in enough quantity, your body will liberate fat cells in order to fuel your caloric needs. While muscle is broken down before fat is, this will not be the case because you Leutinizing Hormone levels will still be high from the previous night's rest (LH levels are highest after sleep since they released during the REM portion of the sleep cycle). This hormone has the benefit of directly stimulating testosterone production, which is not only the muscle building hormone of fame, but also has a hand in muscle preservation. Thus, testosterone levels peak in the morning and help the body, for a lack of a better word, choose to liberate fat cells. Now, you're going to have 6 opinions from 5 different people on when to do cardio and they wouldn't be technically wrong in that they would have some sort of effect on fat loss, but in cases like this I have always sided with the science when it came to making decisions like that.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    thanks guys, the funny thing is, I eat WELL below maintenance, I even barely make it to eating enough for the day (2000 a day, I think my maint. is 25-2600) and I'm thinking of buying whey just to make sure I get enough protein for the day. I'm 5'8 at 180. Time frame, I want to say around the summer-late summer. I honestly don't think I have alot of lose, it's just the mass imo is more then I want. About reps, I thought 6-8 is for mass?
  • Mastery
    Mastery Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 14,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    thanks guys, the funny thing is, I eat WELL below maintenance, I even barely make it to eating enough for the day (2000 a day, I think my maint. is 25-2600) and I'm thinking of buying whey just to make sure I get enough protein for the day. I'm 5'8 at 180. Time frame, I want to say around the summer-late summer. I honestly don't think I have alot of lose, it's just the mass imo is more then I want. About reps, I thought 6-8 is for mass?

    I'm not sure how old you are but your maintenance for your height and weight should be around 1800 - 1900 cals a day (if you were to do nothing all day). 2500 seems WAY too high, unless you got that number by factoring in your activity level as well.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    I added activity level (Moderate 3-5) and that's the number I came up with.
  • Mastery
    Mastery Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 14,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    I added activity level (Moderate 3-5) and that's the number I came up with.
    Ok. Like the prior two posters touched on... You can create an ever bigger caloric deficit, while upping your protein (the protein does count towards your daily calorie intake) to make sure you don't lose muscle.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    should I use whey to make sure I get enough for the day?
  • knivez
    knivez Members Posts: 57
    edited May 2010
    you could go down even further to 1800 like Wall mentioned, it should help you lose some fat. that's my deficit and i lose 2-3 pounds consistently while staying lean. And yeah Whey protein will help because most people can't find enough food to get the total amount of protein they need so whey is essential. Don't know what your lean body mass is but if you're at 180 its probably 10 or 15 pounds less than that, assuming you're not at 10% body fat or something. So maybe 160-170 grams of protein should be ok. you'll def need to drop another 10 pounds or so at least to reduce the mass.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    Thanks alot, I want to say between 12-13% bf.. should I change my lifting habits too? I usually lift 10x3 and 8x3 for chests, I think the 10x3 is giving me hypertrophy?
  • Emerald City Rolla
    Emerald City Rolla Members Posts: 564
    edited May 2010
    Hypertrophy can be achieved anywhere between 6-12 reps. Thats the sweet spot. Now that range can be played around in depending upon your goals. Like I said earlier, working within the 6-8 rep range while leaning up is beneficial in preserving your central nervous system so you don't burn yourself out in the gym and will not act as a mass builder since you are in a caloric deficit.
  • knivez
    knivez Members Posts: 57
    edited May 2010
    ^yeah that's true. since your on a cal deficit you shouldn't really gain too much mass if you still want to lift heavy with 8 reps per. i think your problem was your weren't reducing your deficit enough thus causing you to bulk instead of lean out. reducing weight and adding more reps works also but since you're reducing your cal intake lifting heavy at 8 reps should work fine as well. You'll actually gain more strength along with the definition.


    I'd check the scale every week to make sure you were dropping though just to make sure you're on the right track with it.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    but that's the thing, I know for a fact I'm not eating too much, this is my daily eating:

    morning

    3 scrambled eggs (300) oatmeal 1 pack ( 100) banana (100) almonds (60)= 560

    10 pm

    serving of beef jerky- 120

    lunch - turkey sandwich, lettuce, tomatoes,= 300, apple (95) 2-3 servings of veggies (150)

    afternoon- handful of almonds or organic peanut butter w/celery = 170

    evening 2nd job banana (100) some type of sandwich chicken breast, tuna (240) maybe another banana (100) for pre workout

    post workout 3 servings of veggies (210) 2 servings of tuna ( 120)

    this is 2165

    2754 is my maintenance

    so -500 is 2254 so I still should be losing 1lb a week.

    I think I'm going to try to knock down some more.
  • Emerald City Rolla
    Emerald City Rolla Members Posts: 564
    edited May 2010
    Go back and count your cals. I doubt you calculated your sandwich cals out right, seeing as how a slice of wheat bread is usually about 120 cals each. And when you say 2 servings of tuna do you mean cans or those pouches? A can of tuna is alot more than 60 cals if its in a can. I mean, its impossible to be adding mass if youre in a deficit so something isn't adding up here.
  • Mastery
    Mastery Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 14,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    ^^^ Thats the thing though. You may not be burning as much calores as you think you are. For your height and weight minus the exercise, your maintenance in 1850 - 1900. Are you really burning almost 1000 extra calories a day? I say extra because 1850 - 1900 is what you burn per 24 hour period doing nothing. You're only burning 200 - 400 calories an hour lifting weights (excluding the extra calories your body burns after lifting weights). Just try cutting your calories down to about 1800 like knives said and monitor it for a bit, check your progress and go from there. You may also want to add in some other forms of cardio besides rope, unless you are jumping rope at your max effort and for a decent amount of time. Try going as hard and as fast as you can jumping rope in 3 minute increments with 30 seconds of rest in between. Try going like 20 - 30 minutes doing that.
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    you know what, I think your write about the sandwiches. I'm thinking with the meat, 200, bread 200, ect 100= 500... I need to reevaluate my eating more.

    I mean damn, I had a PB sandwich (post workout) , that ? alone is 400 cals!
  • Miltown Marauder
    Miltown Marauder Members Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2010
    WallH wrote: »
    ^^^ Thats the thing though. You may not be burning as much calores as you think you are. For your height and weight minus the exercise, your maintenance in 1850 - 1900. Are you really burning almost 1000 extra calories a day? I say extra because 1850 - 1900 is what you burn per 24 hour period doing nothing. You're only burning 200 - 400 calories an hour lifting weights (excluding the extra calories your body burns after lifting weights). Just try cutting your calories down to about 1800 like knives said and monitor it for a bit, check your progress and go from there. You may also want to add in some other forms of cardio besides rope, unless you are jumping rope at your max effort and for a decent amount of time. Try going as hard and as fast as you can jumping rope in 3 minute increments with 30 seconds of rest in between. Try going like 20 - 30 minutes doing that.

    good ? man. Jumprope, I do Tabata 20/10 for 8 rounds also with some freestyling roping. I sometimes do the exercise bike for 50 mins, but its nowhere as intense as roping.

    I'll knock down some cals, use whey for the protein, up the cardio/hiit.