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So who made the deal with the Devil?

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Replies

  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe you are misunderstanding my posts because you are misreading them. Read to understand, not to reply.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • beenwizebeenwize Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

    Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

    No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

    I don't buy that excuse for 1 second Oceanic. God says that every single soul, who is of the age of accountability, knows intrinsically and extrinsically that there is a God. To say otherwise is a bold face lie, to which God calls all who do fools.

    1. Intrinsic evidence for the existence of God= "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11

    2. Extrinsic evidence for the existence of God = "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalm 19:1 (read also Romans 1)

    3. What God calls all those who deny the truth = "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" Psalm 14:1



    Somebody is lying here Oceanic. God or you?

    "yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

    Will you get out of the river de(NILE)? God wants to take you out of Egypt and lead you to the Promised land! He wants to feed you with milk and honey. He wants to give your soul rest. He wants you to be at peace with Him. He wants to give you Eternal life! Why would any rational and sane being reject so great an offer as that?

    He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

    Ppl can believe in a Creator and it doest have tobe the same god as you. The quran also says you are damned foe no belief in Allah.
  • Arya TsaddiqArya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonPosts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    Maybe you are misunderstanding my posts because you are misreading them. Read to understand, not to reply.

    I was at work. My bad man. U mentioned omniscience, not omnipresence. But that last paragraph still could apply.
  • Black Boy KingBlack Boy King Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

    so now you believe in the Anti Christ but don't believe in Christ... ironically that makes sense.


    but you better than that yo..
    Arya Tsaddiq
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But that last paragraph still could apply.

    No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

    Picture this:

    An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending

    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

    Bodhi
  • DoUwant2go2HeavenDoUwant2go2Heaven When the first trumpet sounds!!!! Agggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Babylon the GreatPosts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
    beenwize wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    I'm not angry with god. It's difficult to be angry with something you don't believe in. I'm only speaking hypothetically for a argument's sake.

    Deep down you know that God exists my brother, every one does. That is why your "hypothetically" speaking about Him. Amen.

    No, I don't believe in God. This is why I'm speaking to you hypothetically for the purpose of argumentation. It's like, he doesn't exist but let's suppose he does for the sake of argument.

    I don't buy that excuse for 1 second Oceanic. God says that every single soul, who is of the age of accountability, knows intrinsically and extrinsically that there is a God. To say otherwise is a bold face lie, to which God calls all who do fools.

    1. Intrinsic evidence for the existence of God= "He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Ecclesiastes 3:11

    2. Extrinsic evidence for the existence of God = "The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands." Psalm 19:1 (read also Romans 1)

    3. What God calls all those who deny the truth = "Only fools say in their hearts, "There is no God." They are corrupt, and their actions are evil; not one of them does good!" Psalm 14:1



    Somebody is lying here Oceanic. God or you?

    "yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged." Romans 3:4

    Will you get out of the river de(NILE)? God wants to take you out of Egypt and lead you to the Promised land! He wants to feed you with milk and honey. He wants to give your soul rest. He wants you to be at peace with Him. He wants to give you Eternal life! Why would any rational and sane being reject so great an offer as that?

    He loves you my friend. Will you come to Him today?

    Ppl can believe in a Creator and it doest have tobe the same god as you. The quran also says you are damned foe no belief in Allah.

    Correct. People can believe in anything they want too. Sin and spiritual wickedness in high places has deceived all of humanity into believing a multitidue of lies. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, God will prove that there was only 1 truth and 1 way to be reconciled back to Him. Amen.
    It's the blood moon season! Joel 2:31-32!

    GET OUT OF BABYLON THE GREAT!!!!!!!!!

    Go to Jerusalem! 5777



    Amen.
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit

    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • Ajackson17Ajackson17 On the shoulders of Giants and Elders in history UniversePosts: 22,495 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The man of sin is alive right now, typing this to ya'll. It's coming soon...

    So do you believe the Bible or not?

    Cuz you're all over the place cuz....

    Who knows?
    tumblr_mb0d6eD9dS1r7bmo8o1_500.gif


  • Rock_WellRock_Well Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

    Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rock_Well wrote: »
    @Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

    Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?

    That would be a question you would have to ask yourself. That's why I don't believe in what the Bible says. I never said that god was omniscient or omnipotent or that and this; I'm only telling y'all what classical theism says about god and then why it doesn't make sense. If you want to say god doesn't know everything already, that's fine with me. Actually, it would solve a lot of problems for you. You would just have to stop saying that god is omniscient.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • Arya TsaddiqArya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonPosts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    But that last paragraph still could apply.

    No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

    Picture this:

    An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

    I get what you're saying bro...

    But at the end of the day, regardless of how we were created. WE have free will. YOU choose what you will or will not do. I don't care how you look at it. The fact that the Most High my have given us personalities susceptible to certain environmental influences to shift our decisions to fall in line with his based on our behavior doesnt mean we dont make our own decisions.

    You really do practice Daoism. Your thought process makes sense based on their ideology tho.

  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit



    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

    no i can't watch it because the video is not playing
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit



    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

    no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

    Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit



    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

    no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

    Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

    i have seen some episodes but not that one.
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    But that last paragraph still could apply.

    No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

    Picture this:

    An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

    I get what you're saying bro...

    But.. ..I don't care how you look at it.

    Well then we're wasting our time.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • Arya TsaddiqArya Tsaddiq Shalawam The Daughter of BabylonPosts: 15,334 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    But that last paragraph still could apply.

    No because I'm not necessarily trying to prove away omnipotence as you've claimed. I'm saying that collectively, God's omniscience and omnipotence cancel out free will. To SAVE the concept of free will, one would have to give up one of those qualities. To reconcile the existence of evil with the existence of God, one would have to give up at least one of the three; those three being 1.) omniscience, 2.) omnibenevolence and 3.) omnipotence.

    Picture this:

    An author writes a novel. The author knows everything about the characters he creates. Everything about those characters come from his mind, and ultimately his will, since everything you read in that novel is written by him alone. You could imagine, with the right amount of imagination, that those characters within the novel would think that they have their own free will. Even reading the book, it may appear that the characters have their own minds, their own lives and maybe that world comes "alive" for you while reading. But at the end of the day, the characters have no free will at all. Everything that happened in that novel was written by the author.

    I get what you're saying bro...

    But.. ..I don't care how you look at it.

    Well then we're wasting our time.

    not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.
  • Black Boy KingBlack Boy King Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Ezekiel 25:17
    and I will execute great vengeance upon them with furious rebukes; and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall lay my vengeance upon them


    I think the Son is coming very soon... Repent, repent, repent. Don't be an arrogant human, because nature proves everyday that we are weak and feeble. And the Bible is strikingly accurate with it's prophesies. It was written...
    DoUwant2go2Heaven
  • Rock_WellRock_Well Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Oceanic wrote: »
    Rock_Well wrote: »
    @Oceanic if it is how u say, that God knows the whole story already, how do u explain the record of when God saying 'now i know' in Genesis, in response to Abraham decision in faith to offer his son as a sacrifice.

    Or how do you explain God in the Bible expressing regret for having made man on earth?

    That would be a question you would have to ask yourself. That's why I don't believe in what the Bible says. I never said that god was omniscient or omnipotent or that and this; I'm only telling y'all what classical theism says about god and then why it doesn't make sense. If you want to say god doesn't know everything already, that's fine with me. Actually, it would solve a lot of problems for you. You would just have to stop saying that god is omniscient.

    As a rule I try not to concern myself too much as to what 'Classical Theism' says about God's nature when it's not necessarily supported by what the Bible says.

    The Bible does teach that God is all-knowing, but it's a mistake to assume that means also knowing things that just can't be known - what you say Classical Theism says about God's nature.
    zombie
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2013
    Rock_Well wrote: »
    As a rule I try not to concern myself too much as to what 'Classical Theism' says about God's nature when it's not necessarily supported by what the Bible says.

    The Abrahamic religions are under the classical theism umbrella. Classical theism supports the omni x3 theory and is differentiated from other forms of theism like panentheism.
    Rock_Well wrote: »
    The Bible does teach that God is all-knowing, but it's a mistake to assume that means also knowing things that just can't be known - what you say Classical Theism says about God's nature.

    If God is truly all-knowing, he knows all. If there is something God doesn't know, he is not all-knowing. This includes the future because the future is something. If God cannot know the future, there is a limit placed on God's knowledge and thus he is not omniscient.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    not necessarily. That is a figure of speech. Not me saying I don't respect your opinion. Im just trying to understand how you can believe that everything that happens Is in alignment with "nature" and nothing else, but oppose the idea of a intelligent designer.

    Because there has to be at least several laws of nature that govern God's existence, much less his intelligence and his ability to create anything at all. Nothing can be arranged that orderly unless there is a principle behind it. That principle behind all things is nature. Humans have personified it as "mother nature" and "father God" but nature is not an intelligent being per se. It creates intelligent entities.
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • BodhiBodhi Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit



    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

    no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

    Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

    i have seen some episodes but not that one.

    It's on YouTube. Search "through the wormhole free will"
    “Empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
    -- Bruce Lee
  • zombiezombie Posts: 13,450 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    zombie wrote: »
    god knows all future human action but he knows them for what they are possible actions and he only judges you upon those actions that you bring into reality.

    life is not like a novel it does not have a preconceived ending


    The video does not show but i've heard about the scientific arguments against free will and they are bullshit if this video is going to explain away freewill using quantum physics then it is bullshit



    Ok well let me know when you've watched it.

    no i can't watch it because the video is not playing

    Oh. You ever seen Through The Wormhole w/ Morgan Freeman?

    i have seen some episodes but not that one.

    It's on YouTube. Search "through the wormhole free will"

    you have to pay for the video.
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