Onslaught vs Thanos
Options
Comments
-
DarkRaiden wrote: »Just gonna put out there, that I have no idea what Shuma did in the last arc but a toenail to a human body in volume is anywhere form 1/8.9 billionth of your power to 1/13 billionth of your power. So you can magnify that showing by a lot if that line is to be taken seriously.
Also it's very hard to quantify the size of a toenail but...yeah. That's what it'd amount to.
Its a ? hyperbole line. No one is denying Shuma is a beast but he is beneath the big three death eternity galactus and of course phoenix and LT...but he can hang with anyone else...celestials Odin elder gods Dormammu lord order chaos inbetweener. -
I can't believe I've been reading marvel comics so long and idk wtf yall r talking about.
-
evoljeanyes wrote: »Not all dimensions have Eternity. Only alternate (divergent) universes of 616 feature the abstracts we all know. Dimensions that exist within timelines (for instance, each "what if" will have it's own Dormammu, despite him owning many dimensions), will all be tied to one single abstract set, so in this aspect, we need to distinguish that although each dimension may be a universe, it is not an "earth", i.e. earth-616, earth-4082, etc.
Hence why LT nor any other abstract ran up when Jim Jasper's had all his warping going on.
Strange states Eternity is the most powerful mystic and you can tell from his fight with Shuma (thinking he could win) and eternity knowing he would lose before is started that he was correct.
Dormammu runs thousands of dimensions just as Shuma does. So, chill with that hyperbole. I like you the lonious. You're knowledgeable. I have respect. I stayed to argue because you're a wise cat. But this time you're wrong. The Ancient One and Strange fear Dormammu more.
Also the evolved abstracts in each universe story is in x men forever...phoenix conducts the process.
You are using dimensions and universe interchangeably. They are not the same thing. Dimensions are just splinter realms associated with a particular universe. Pretty much every Demon in Marvel controls his own realm or dimension. Dormammu conquering dimensions just means he went around beating a bunch of demon level entities and taking their realms. Shuma has conquered universes. That is different.
Strange thinking he can win against Shuma but not against Eternity is meaningless because Strange has never had to face Shuma at full power. Again, Shuma is always plotting to try and manifest in the 616 Universe. Strange has stopped him, but if he's stopped him from manifesting then that automatically means that he never faced Shuma at full power.
Of course Strange fears Dormammu more. Dormammu is part of the 616 universe and though coming out of his into the proper universe weakens him, he still can do it readily making him a constant threat. Shuma has not standing in the 616 universe at all. So the threat the he poses is not near as constant. -
Dormammu can not manifest in 616 anymore either. It clearly states when it says that Shuma ruled it was before The abstracts existed. He was ruling nothingness. He got beat with all the angled ones by Death bruh....come on with the overhype
-
evoljeanyes wrote: »Dormammu can not manifest in 616 anymore either. It clearly states when it says that Shuma ruled it was before The abstracts existed. He was ruling nothingness. He got beat with all the angled ones by Death bruh....come on with the overhype
Dormammu cannot manifest outside of his realm. That is not the same thing as saying that he cannot manifest in the 616 universe as his realm is part of the 616 universe. Again, you're confusing dimensions/realms with universes. Before the Mighty Avengers, the last time we saw Shuma was during the Thanos Imperative where he and the other Many Angled Ones were trying to infect the 616 universe with the Cancerverse. Again, that was a completely different universe not simply a splinter realm like what Dormammu controls.
And I'm going have to ask you to show some proof of the other claims you're making. Abstracts like Eternity, Infiniti, Oblivion, etc... existed for as long as the Universe existed. Death came about as soon as the first form of life developed in the universe. So how exactly did Shuma rule before they existed? Hell Galactus isn't even an abstract, and he existed since the beginning of the new universe. Not to mention that Shuma ruled Earth for a long time and was eventually banished by Conan and some super strong spell. So I'm not even sure where you're getting this nonsense about him ruling nothingness. -
Ok maybe you're right about the abstracts being present prehistorically. My bad. I misread. Even still...Sise-neg is the sorcerer supreme he banished Shuma from power....no sorcery supreme surmounts abstracts in power, bro. He ruled earth...why isn't it stated he killed abstracts. Why is stated when he did ? abstracts in there cancerverse.
? ...Galactus was dolo'ing the Galactus engine in that particular universe. Then Death ended them ? early! Many angled ones killed cancerverse death and galactus...all four of them...Shuma was there leader he didn't beat them alone. What are you talking about? How is that not proof that Death 616 is superior to other versions if when she arrived it was a wrap for them . All the many angled ones combined are above abstracts for sure...but this argument is silly. -
Onslaughtevoljeanyes wrote: »DarkRaiden wrote: »Just gonna put out there, that I have no idea what Shuma did in the last arc but a toenail to a human body in volume is anywhere form 1/8.9 billionth of your power to 1/13 billionth of your power. So you can magnify that showing by a lot if that line is to be taken seriously.
Also it's very hard to quantify the size of a toenail but...yeah. That's what it'd amount to.
Its a ? hyperbole line. No one is denying Shuma is a beast but he is beneath the big three death eternity galactus and of course phoenix and LT...but he can hang with anyone else...celestials Odin elder gods Dormammu lord order chaos inbetweener.
Galactus nor Phoenix are part of any big 3. Too many people have bodied them again and again and they're not even stronger than some ? on earth. Shuma bodies everyone on Earth. -
Who has bodied Phoenix?
-
No one has bodied phoenix...nor has anyone bodied Galactus outside of poor writing. The galactus engine was supposed to be comparable to all four angles ones and Galactus was standing up to that ? head up after that big mother ? killed all them other abstract ? . Galactus is equal to eternity and death it's written. So we ignore duke.
-
evoljeanyes wrote: »Ok maybe you're right about the abstracts being present prehistorically. My bad. I misread. Even still...Sise-neg is the sorcerer supreme he banished Shuma from power....no sorcery supreme surmounts abstracts in power, bro. He ruled earth...why isn't it stated he killed abstracts. Why is stated when he did ? abstracts in there cancerverse.
? ...Galactus was dolo'ing the Galactus engine in that particular universe. Then Death ended them ? early! Many angled ones killed cancerverse death and galactus...all four of them...Shuma was there leader he didn't beat them alone. What are you talking about? How is that not proof that Death 616 is superior to other versions if when she arrived it was a wrap for them . All the many angled ones combined are above abstracts for sure...but this argument is silly.
You said it yourself. He ruled 616 Earth. He has never ruled the 616 universe so he has never supplanted the Abstracts in the 616 universe. I could be mistaken, but I don't even thing he was fully manifested in that storyline. He was still at a point of trying to bring his full power to bear in the Universe.
And what are you talking about? Galactus was night fighting the Galacus engine solo. There was a host of Cosmics there, and they were all fighting against the Galactus Engine. Lastly, Death did not beat the Many Angled Ones in the way you're suggesting. The Cancerverse was what it was because of the removal of Death. By introducing Death back into the Cancerverse, it basically destroyed it. In other words, the Many Angled Ones were defeated because the Universe they were using as a ploy to get into the 616 Universe was destroyed. You're making it seem like Death just went in there and bowled the MAOs over. That's not what happened. Death couldn't do ? until Thanos went into the Cancerverse and tricked the MAOs into introducing Death's power back into the universe.
-
They killed cancerverse death...theyvwere blockading everything from entering...that as a death avatar when in and got the plug for death and it was a wrap for them and their plan.
Yes Galactus was going head up with the galactus engine...everyone else was killed the top tier heroes came and helped after they all died but the gal engine let loose all them little robots that had the occupied...the robots tied up gal while he held off the engine...someone frees him and they went back to the scrap....the four many angled ones and possibly more were coming through after but death and Thanos shut that all the way down. Its cool.
We could go all day but I think we should agree that Shuma is a beast...I put him below gal eternity and death....based off feats I can't put him above Dormammu they have so many similarities. So he is kind of an unknown.
I think we can all agree Shuma is a beast and sure I think he could maybe beat Dormammu but we have no proof, g! -
1) You account of how Death won out is correct, and even in your own summary, their defeat did not come from Death overpowering them as you were suggesting before. They had control of the Cancerverse and that control was predicated on the lack of Death in it. When Death was reintroduced to the Cancerverse, the MAO plans fell apart. That has no bearing on Death's ability to overpower the MAOs.
2) You're apparently forgetting about Tenebrous, Aegis, and the celestial entities that were there fighting alongside Galactus. Surfer himself points out that all of them were fighting the Galactus Engine on a level that the heroes couldn't comprehend. Aegis was actually destroyed in the battle.
3) I have no problem agreeing that Shuma doesn't have the type of feats that would make his superiority to someone like Dormammu indisputable. I'm just pointing out that in the way they have built his character, he is supposed to be taken as being on a higher level. How he compares to 616 Eternity, Death, or Galactus (at full power) I can't say, but I do think you can make the argument that he's bested other universe's versions of those characters. -
Dormammu and Strange invoke Shuma and Zom in spells when they need power boosts.
Ebony Maw even said its a shame they stopped Shuma because "this universe could have seen TRUE power"
-
OnslaughtThe Lonious Monk wrote: »
what? hahaha are you serious? Do you know the history of Galactus as he relates to Death and Eternity? I'm sure you don't based on your fist sentence..You're calling someone wrong when you don't even know the basics behind Galactus..You do realize that Galactus sole purpose is to eventually become Eternity right? Death/Eternity/Galactus has the beforementioned relationship as stated by Marvel, but I guess they're flat out wrong too..Considering Galactus is one of my favorite characters, yeah I know the history. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Nowhere has it been stated that Galactus is supposed to become the new Eternity. It's never been definitively stated what Galactus end purpose is. The strongest hints are that he's the one that's supposed end the Universe. And I never said that Galactus doesn't refer to Eternity or Death in those terms, but they are not family in the same way that you might be with your father or mother. It's a completely different type of relationship. Who the ? really think biological familial terms really apply to a bunch of Celestial and Abstract entities? Come on man.
what the ? ..Galan's sole purpose is to become the new Eternity .He's meant to reboot the universe once he "dies"..becoming the next Eternity. Marvel has stated Galactus' relationship with Death and Eternity..obviously Death didn't give birth to Galan but their relationship status remains the same. Earlier stories hinted that none of them can exist without the other. Galactus is responsible for keeping cosmic consonance..This is why he consumes worlds..It's not just to feed, it's to keep balance within the universe. If you have a problem with how Marvel defines the relationship between Death/Eternity/Galan, then take it up with them.that's not really saying anything thoigh, because these two wouldn't be able to do anything to Thanos either.They might lose to Thanos, but they could fight him. The most they could do with Shuma, even a tiny portion of it's power, is try to prevent it from gaining a foothold in the universe.
anyone can fight with anyone though. BM and Monica have no hopes of doing anything to Thanos and the same would hold for Shuma..that's all i'm saying.I've dismissed it? Are you still making things up? You continue to make up things to prove some kind of point, instead of you know, just using evidence provided in the books. He conquered universes..great..what were the circumstances behind conquering these universes?
its coolMy bad. I honestly got you mixed up with evoljean. Because we always point out that when Strange was channeling Shuma, Shuma's presence alone was enough to to start ? reality and destroying ? on a cosmic scale. He always handwaves that and dismisses it.Aside from that, what do I make up?
that he's beaten multiple Eternities, or Galactus' or whoever when it hasn't been shown or stated.Why do I have to provide the circumstances behind him conquering universes?
You do when you're using off hand comments as feats..there's no information regarding these other universes..who the inhabitants were or if they're more or less powerful than 616 counterparts..Franklin Richards created a universe and placed it in his back pocket, complete with characters comparable to their 616 counterparts. That doesn't mean another Eternity was in this new pocket universe or that this Eternity would be as powerful as the 616.If the stories he's been in point that out as a testament to his power and Marvel's official database points that out as a testament to his power, how am I wrong or "making things up" when I point it out as fact. Again, just because you don't want something to be true doesn't mean it's not true.
because you've haven't provided facts. Marvel has many guys who hold the label of extremely powerful or capable of conquering worlds/universes. Some of these guys actually have on panel feats to back it up. I don't really care one way or another about Shuma. Whether he's more or less powerful than Dormy or Odin is irrelevant to me. I'm only interested in what has been established in the books. All of the things you're saying about Shuma can be said for Galactus, Dormy and others. -
OnslaughtThe Lonious Monk wrote: »This is my point right here..This is your big feat that you keep harping on and yet you don't even know the details behind the fight..You can't say what happened when Shuma met up with the Vishanti, only that they fought..
You've only argued about the Vishanti fight. I asked what big feat you're referring to and you haven't mentioned anything else. So again, what feat is being dismissed?What the ? are you talking about? When have I ever harped on the fight between Shuma and the Vishanti? I never even brought that up, evol did. I was just responding to what he said about it.
the Abraxas saga.When did Marvel release a story showing that Galactus is a multiversal being? Please show me.
well for one, other than the Ultimate Universe, the other stories are not canon, as in "What If" books and he died didn't he?We've seen stories in other universes. In the Paradise X universe Galactus is Franklin Richards. In the Ultimate Universe, the Gah Lak Tus swarm is the analog for Galactus. In the original universe that the Marvel Zombies came from, Galactus was a flesh and blood creature that was eaten by the zombies. Abraxas killed multiple Galactuses.
How did that affect 616 Galactus? It didn't.
ok man..whatever you say. why would he need to show that he's aware of the other deaths? Do you know of a story when Eternity is coping over the loss of one of his counterparts?He didn't even show that he was aware of their deaths. That's because he's not a multiversal being. You're getting the fact that every universe has a Galactus confused with Galactus being a multiversal being. That's two different things. Every Marvel universe has a version of Wolverine. Are you now going to argue that Wolverine is multiversal too?the same can be said about Shuma fighting multiple Eternities too huh?
you made the claim..you must prove that claim with actual facts and not your reasoningHey, show me where I'm wrong.
you can spit it however way you want, but you coming up with your own scenario to fit a story is ridiculous. Show me one instance when Shuma has fought ANY Eternity. You can't just assume ? like that. Fighting Eternity is a big ? deal in Marvel, so feats of Shuma doing such shouldn't be hard to find.I've explained the logic between why I've said that Shuma has to have usurped versions of Eternity before. Provide some kind of logical argument against what I've said or shut the ? up about it. Doing the internet version of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalala" isn't accomplishing ? .oh, now we're going to use what's stated in the comic?What are you talking about? Regarding this issue we've always been talking about what's in the comic. The only supposition I've ever used was regarding Shuma's possible encounters with alternate Eternities and I've always been open about the inductive nature of that reasoning. You're just incapable of actually providing a good counterargument so you resort making stupid claims and making pointless statements.
Actually, you've used your own imagination in regards to Shuma and I don't need to provide a counter argument to something you made up out of thin air..But here's one..Marvel has never shown or stated that Shuma has fought Eternity..that was simple
-
Onslaught
when has Dormy invoked Shuma for a spell? Zom was a beast thoughDormammu and Strange invoke Shuma and Zom in spells when they need power boosts.
Ebony Maw even said its a shame they stopped Shuma because "this universe could have seen TRUE power"
-
That hyperboles has been stated by so many...Uatu called Galactus the most powerful ever or some ? ....its hyperbole...
Deaths presence deeming the Mao unable to perform is about her power and presence trumping theirs.
All them died...bruh...galactus was fighting one on one for a minute. I read it. They all got mopped them two celestials were the last ones standing when they dropped it was just Gal
-
? is real in here.
-
OnslaughtWho has bodied Phoenix?evoljeanyes wrote: »No one has bodied phoenix...nor has anyone bodied Galactus outside of poor writing. The galactus engine was supposed to be comparable to all four angles ones and Galactus was standing up to that ? head up after that big mother ? killed all them other abstract ? . Galactus is equal to eternity and death it's written. So we ignore duke.
Let's see....Phoenix...That'd be Onslaught, Thor a few times, the Goblin Force, Magneto, Storm, Xorn, Doom
Galactus......Thor a few times, BRB, Surfer's done it once (but he was starving), Thanos, Tenebrous and Aegis, iirc Ego fended him off, hell Fantastic 4's beaten him, Doom, Chaos King IIRC, Dr. Strange, probably more.
Thor's for each of themPhoenix
Phoenix Force
Galactus
Doom's vs. Phoenix (since everyone knows his defeats of Galactus well)
Storm's
We all know how Xorn gave Phoenix a stroke, Magneto also beat her before
As did Onslaught:
And of course, Goblin Force messed both of them up
-
Those are mostly story lines meant to show a push for other characters. Galactus:616::Phoenix:X-Men...Aegis and Tenebrous got a boost from Galactus...they were new. Galactus dolo'd them and hid them in some ? for thousands of years. Thanos never beat Gal. Nor did Thor. Phoenix is a beast only goblin force (rumored to he an aspect of phoenix) defeated full phoenix straight up.
-
Well to be fair, we rarely ever see a full phoenix in a straight up fight. That's pretty much like saying we've never seen a full powered Galactus beaten in a fight. Again largely because it's extremely rare to see Galactus in fights when he's stated to be anywhere near full power.
-
Exactly...^^^^^^^
