Bill Nye vs Ken Ham (Evolution vs Creation debate)

13

Comments

  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    VIBE wrote: »
    What evidence is there, besides the bible, that can disprove evolution and make the creation story true?

    How can you ignore the geological/fossil layers, that in order, fossils are found to prove evolution?

    None of the fossils then are the same as now, many evolved over time, this is recorded in the fossils and proved w side by side comparisons.

    Can creationists explain this?

    1. The Bible is not necessary to argue against & defeat the theory of evolution..............

    Every living thing has "programmed" or coded DNA instructions........

    It has been observed to mutate..........

    However, never surpass the limits of its instructions or DNA program.............

    Thus, no new species or "kind"........

    2. It is not about ignoring fossils and geological evidence..........

    The Cambrian explosion is but one example of the theory of evolution breaking its own "laws" in order to remain a half-assed theory.............

    The theory has been forced on evidence that does not fit...........

    3. embryo4.gif

    Looks can be deceiving..........

    Human embryo's look like fish embryo's ......

    That does not "prove" common descent............

    4. Just did it..........


  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oceanic wrote: »
    bambu wrote: »
    Oceanic wrote: »
    bambu wrote: »
    @oceanic...........

    Lets go, ? ..............

    That is up to @Sion

    Don't be in such a hurry to be defeated.

    I don't need a ? permission to blast your silly ass..........

    Every living thing has "programmed" or coded DNA instructions........

    It has been observed to mutate..........

    However, never surpass the limits of its instructions or DNA program.............

    Thus, no new species or "kind"........

    Explain how this backwards ? happens.............

    217734-evolution-of-man.jpg

    don-t-worry-i-ll-wait-o.gif

    And miss me with the Kiwi & Duck-billed platypuses......



    lol.. I hope this isn't your best.

    don-t-worry-i-ll-wait-o.gif


  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
  • Black Boy King
    Black Boy King Members Posts: 6,984 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Oceanic As I said in my very first post on the first page, this "debate" is asinine. I can't expect you to understand heavenly things when you don't seek ? , but rather make yourself an enemy to ? . It's already written that you are a fool that has not even begun to come into knowledge and wisdom.


    Colossians 2:8
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    This is you trying to use the tradition of buddha and the tradition of darwinism to contend the Faith of the saints. I am instructed to be wary of your deceitfulness.


    1 Timothy 6:20
    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    This is the "science" called evolution which is not science at all but an illogical theory.



    Proverbs 9:10
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

    If you don't fear the LORD then you haven't even begun to come into wisdom and understanding. Therefore any knowledge anyone drops on you really just falls on a fool's ears and is not understood. Sad.



    Psalms 14:1
    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no ? . They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    There it is. *shrugs* What do I have to do with you if you say "? does not exist" and mean it in your heart? What profit do I have from discussing these matters with you if there is no wisdom in a fool?




    If ? be true, why should I take matters into my own hands (using my own interpretation and philosophy) when contending with the devil?



    Ephesians 6:17
    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of ? :

    Do I not say 'I trust ? with all my heart'? Why not use the sword He has provided me?




    This is easy, bruh, it's like having the golden gun from 007.
  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh.... Same ole posts and views. Nothing being built.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Judah Back wrote: »
    @Oceanic As I said in my very first post on the first page, this "debate" is asinine. I can't expect you to understand heavenly things when you don't seek ? , but rather make yourself an enemy to ? . It's already written that you are a fool that has not even begun to come into knowledge and wisdom.


    Colossians 2:8
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

    This is you trying to use the tradition of buddha and the tradition of darwinism to contend the Faith of the saints. I am instructed to be wary of your deceitfulness.


    1 Timothy 6:20
    O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:

    This is the "science" called evolution which is not science at all but an illogical theory.



    Proverbs 9:10
    The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

    If you don't fear the LORD then you haven't even begun to come into wisdom and understanding. Therefore any knowledge anyone drops on you really just falls on a fool's ears and is not understood. Sad.



    Psalms 14:1
    The fool hath said in his heart, There is no ? . They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

    There it is. *shrugs* What do I have to do with you if you say "? does not exist" and mean it in your heart? What profit do I have from discussing these matters with you if there is no wisdom in a fool?




    If ? be true, why should I take matters into my own hands (using my own interpretation and philosophy) when contending with the devil?



    Ephesians 6:17
    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of ? :

    Do I not say 'I trust ? with all my heart'? Why not use the sword He has provided me?




    This is easy, bruh, it's like having the golden gun from 007.

    Sorry, I'm not familiar with the golden gun but all of what you just posted is opinion and insults, no facts or logic. If you feel the debate is asinine and that there is no potential for profiting in conversing with me, why bring me into it?
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lol @oceanic.....

    How about replying to my post.....
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    Lol @oceanic.....

    How about replying to my post.....

    You will wait until the official debate. That is, when you are called on.
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    Oceanic wrote: »
    bambu wrote: »
    Lol @oceanic.....

    How about replying to my post.....

    You will wait until the official debate. That is, when you are called on.

    SHOOK ONES ~ PART 2........

    http://youtu.be/79jGN-ZGdbw

  • Ajackson17
    Ajackson17 Members Posts: 22,501 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, i'm waiting for the debate.
  • whar
    whar Members Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    "However, never surpass the limits of its instructions or DNA program.............

    Thus, no new species or "kind"........"

    How can one define what surpasses the limits of its instructions?

    There is a specie of bacteria that evolved to eat nylon, a man made substance. How do you show that the information was 'there' all along?
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    whar wrote: »
    "However, never surpass the limits of its instructions or DNA program.............

    Thus, no new species or "kind"........"

    How can one define what surpasses the limits of its instructions?

    A new species or kind........

    Mutations occur.....However, once the limits of the specie or kind are reached...........

    It fails to reproduce, hence failing to "evolve" into a new species or kind...........

    I use the word "kind" to represent differences in living creatures............

    i.e. a fly is a different kind than a dog............

    Or Fusobacteria is a different kind than Spirochaetes............

    I do so because the classification system originated by Linnaeus is severely flawed............
    As for man, Linnaeus concluded there were four types of ? sapiens: europaeus, asiaticus, americanus and afer. And that was not including people in "a state of nature" (? sapiens ferus) and pathological types (? sapiens monstrosus).

    Or is it??????
    whar wrote: »

    There is a specie of bacteria that evolved to eat nylon, a man made substance. How do you show that the information was 'there' all along?


    "a single-step mutation that survived because it improved the fitness of the bacteria possessing the mutation.".......

    @whar
    @vibe
    @oceanic

    Try again................

    5588423163_a9feda3dfe_z.jpg
  • whar
    whar Members Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    Bambu you need to pay attention to your comment.

    Since most speciation is the accumulation of mutation and this is an example of an organism doing something that could not have existed in its DNA prior to the existence of Nylon how can you hold a position regarding the 'limits' of information and DNA. Since this is an over the top obvious example of new information entering the genome of this organism and it is equally obvious that this organism will continue to acquire new adaptions then it is simply a matter of time until it reaches a point when it would need to be called a new species.

    For this to be otherwise a process or limit would have to exist that restricted the accumulation of DNA changes in a population over time. There is a limit on the rate this information can be accumulated but not one on the volume of information. Eventually it will reach a point when the population of organisms would be a new species.

    As for the soft and squishy word kind ... is a dog and a fox the same kind?

    And as I am sure I have linked before the 29 evidences of macro evolution

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    Why don't you try explaining all that evidence is wrong.
  • whar
    whar Members Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    The Cambrian explosion occurs over an 80 million year period. While it did see evolutionary changes occur faster than today nothing occuring during it that violated evolution.
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    whar wrote: »
    "However, never surpass the limits of its instructions or DNA program.............

    Thus, no new species or "kind"........"

    How can one define what surpasses the limits of its instructions?

    There is a specie of bacteria that evolved to eat nylon, a man made substance. How do you show that the information was 'there' all along?

    Or why did bible ? come down to confuse languages because of what humans 'might' be able to do? He said nothing would be restrained so if he set limits in our dna then wat was he concerned for?
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    whar wrote: »
    Bambu you need to pay attention to your comment.

    Since most speciation is the accumulation of mutation and this is an example of an organism doing something that could not have existed in its DNA prior to the existence of Nylon how can you hold a position regarding the 'limits' of information and DNA. Since this is an over the top obvious example of new information entering the genome of this organism and it is equally obvious that this organism will continue to acquire new adaptions then it is simply a matter of time until it reaches a point when it would need to be called a new species.

    For this to be otherwise a process or limit would have to exist that restricted the accumulation of DNA changes in a population over time. There is a limit on the rate this information can be accumulated but not one on the volume of information. Eventually it will reach a point when the population of organisms would be a new species.


    No new species has been observed..............

    "whar wrote: »
    As for the soft and squishy word kind ... is a dog and a fox the same kind?

    No........
    "whar wrote: »
    And as I am sure I have linked before the 29 evidences of macro evolution

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

    Why don't you try explaining all that evidence is wrong.

    Why don't you address my points and stop plastering this board with prefabricated arguments.............

    whar wrote: »
    The Cambrian explosion occurs over an 80 million year period. While it did see evolutionary changes occur faster than today nothing occuring during it that violated evolution.

    Nice diversion.........

    The Cambrain explosion breaks the entire thesis of evolution..........

    It is a gradual slow process......

    However it just so happened to speed up during the Cambrain???????

    GTFOH............

    “The extreme speed of anatomical change and adaptive radiation during this brief time period requires explanations that go beyond those proposed for the evolution of species within the modern biota.” R. L. Carroll


    Bambu wrote: »
    *The supremacy of our empire is undeniable*
  • whar
    whar Members Posts: 347 ✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    "However it just so happened to speed up during the Cambrain???????"

    Yes evolutionary rates always increase following a mass extinction. This is due to entire ecosystems opening up to new organisms. These organisms change rapidly, compared to other periods, due to the new environment and the decreased competition caused by the extinction. The same is true during the Cambrian except instead of extinction these were among the first animals to inhabit most of the environs. The Cambrian is not an argument against evolution.

    "Why don't you address my points and stop plastering this board with prefabricated arguments............."

    I do address your points, see the paragraph above. Why don't you read this transtional forms and then explain why it does not show evidence of transitional forms?

    Oh and those "prefabricated arguments" are called science and evidence. Hell all your points are old creationist nonsense going back years.

    No new information in DNA. New Information in DNA

    No observed acts of speciation. Observed acts of speciation

    Mischaracterizing poor R.L. Carroll. Quote Mining

    Do you think the man that produced all these works by Dr Carroll does not believe evolution is true? Of course he does but you would take a single sentence from a paper he wrote 14 years ago and put forward the idea he believes evolution is false? That is genuinely despicable behavior and does nothing to undermine the actual evidence supporting evolution.

    All your arguments are smoke Bambu they have no substance.
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    Damn @whar str8 etherin this fool.
  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    whar wrote: »
    "However it just so happened to speed up during the Cambrain???????"

    Yes evolutionary rates always increase following a mass extinction. This is due to entire ecosystems opening up to new organisms. These organisms change rapidly, compared to other periods, due to the new environment and the decreased competition caused by the extinction. The same is true during the Cambrian except instead of extinction these were among the first animals to inhabit most of the environs. The Cambrian is not an argument against evolution.

    "Why don't you address my points and stop plastering this board with prefabricated arguments............."

    I do address your points, see the paragraph above. Why don't you read this transtional forms and then explain why it does not show evidence of transitional forms?

    Oh and those "prefabricated arguments" are called science and evidence. Hell all your points are old creationist nonsense going back years.

    No new information in DNA. New Information in DNA

    No observed acts of speciation. Observed acts of speciation

    Mischaracterizing poor R.L. Carroll. Quote Mining

    Do you think the man that produced all these works by Dr Carroll does not believe evolution is true? Of course he does but you would take a single sentence from a paper he wrote 14 years ago and put forward the idea he believes evolution is false? That is genuinely despicable behavior and does nothing to undermine the actual evidence supporting evolution.

    All your arguments are smoke Bambu they have no substance.

    Really????

    You might get some cosigns, however, you are the only one whose argument is smoke............

    Explain to me again the time frame of the Cambrian explosion...........

    Wait.....

    I found it......
    whar wrote: »
    Ape to humans took 6 million years. We see clear evidence of this in the fossil record but you are not going to see that occur in the lab or even in the wild given we have only been looking for 150 years.

    Artificial Selection does give interesting result particularly in agriculture. Cabbage is a simple plant that is a popular crop in Russia and elsewhere. In fact its origins are from that region northern Asia basically. Through selective breeding cabbage has been changed into Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale.

    That is a pretty significant set of changes to an organism. It is hard to argue that evolution can not produce large scale changes to an organism when farmers for 1000s of years have been using evolution to do just that.

    And your downfall........
    bambu wrote: »
    This post illustrates your ignorance on the topic of evolution.....

    Cabbage did not "evolve" into the other vegetables that you mentioned......

    cabbage, Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale are genetic modifications of of the same species (Brassica oleracea)......

    The plants are selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation......

    This is no different than the hybridization of cannabis.....

    Several genetic variations.....

    However, no new species.... let alone "proof" of evolution.....

    I don't care if the author supports evolution or not, if he questions the validity of the Cambrain time period it should not be ignored........

    So again....

    “The extreme speed of anatomical change and adaptive radiation during this brief time period requires explanations that go beyond those proposed for the evolution of species within the modern biota.” R. L. Carroll

    And I don't care if you use arguments from talkorigins and such.............

    Just be specific.....

    If you make an argument, make it..........

    Don't post a link and expect it to prove your gobbledygook......

    & cosigns from @beenwise only illustrates that your argument is foolish............


    We need moderation..........

    @young_chitlin.....

    What's the score??????

    @oceanic.....

    http://youtu.be/w-Ixtk-_clo
  • beenwize
    beenwize Members Posts: 2,024 ✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    whar wrote: »
    "However it just so happened to speed up during the Cambrain???????"

    Yes evolutionary rates always increase following a mass extinction. This is due to entire ecosystems opening up to new organisms. These organisms change rapidly, compared to other periods, due to the new environment and the decreased competition caused by the extinction. The same is true during the Cambrian except instead of extinction these were among the first animals to inhabit most of the environs. The Cambrian is not an argument against evolution.

    "Why don't you address my points and stop plastering this board with prefabricated arguments............."

    I do address your points, see the paragraph above. Why don't you read this transtional forms and then explain why it does not show evidence of transitional forms?

    Oh and those "prefabricated arguments" are called science and evidence. Hell all your points are old creationist nonsense going back years.

    No new information in DNA. New Information in DNA

    No observed acts of speciation. Observed acts of speciation

    Mischaracterizing poor R.L. Carroll. Quote Mining

    Do you think the man that produced all these works by Dr Carroll does not believe evolution is true? Of course he does but you would take a single sentence from a paper he wrote 14 years ago and put forward the idea he believes evolution is false? That is genuinely despicable behavior and does nothing to undermine the actual evidence supporting evolution.

    All your arguments are smoke Bambu they have no substance.

    Really????

    You might get some cosigns, however, you are the only one whose argument is smoke............

    Explain to me again the time frame of the Cambrian explosion...........

    Wait.....

    I found it......
    whar wrote: »
    Ape to humans took 6 million years. We see clear evidence of this in the fossil record but you are not going to see that occur in the lab or even in the wild given we have only been looking for 150 years.

    Artificial Selection does give interesting result particularly in agriculture. Cabbage is a simple plant that is a popular crop in Russia and elsewhere. In fact its origins are from that region northern Asia basically. Through selective breeding cabbage has been changed into Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale.

    That is a pretty significant set of changes to an organism. It is hard to argue that evolution can not produce large scale changes to an organism when farmers for 1000s of years have been using evolution to do just that.

    And your downfall........
    bambu wrote: »
    This post illustrates your ignorance on the topic of evolution.....

    Cabbage did not "evolve" into the other vegetables that you mentioned......

    cabbage, Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale are genetic modifications of of the same species (Brassica oleracea)......

    The plants are selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation......

    This is no different than the hybridization of cannabis.....

    Several genetic variations.....

    However, no new species.... let alone "proof" of evolution.....

    I don't care if the author supports evolution or not, if he questions the validity of the Cambrain time period it should not be ignored........

    So again....

    “The extreme speed of anatomical change and adaptive radiation during this brief time period requires explanations that go beyond those proposed for the evolution of species within the modern biota.” R. L. Carroll

    And I don't care if you use arguments from talkorigins and such.............

    Just be specific.....

    If you make an argument, make it..........

    Don't post a link and expect it to prove your gobbledygook......

    & cosigns from @beenwise only illustrates that your argument is foolish............


    We need moderation..........

    @young_chitlin.....

    What's the score??????

    @oceanic.....


    1888528_10201271347095713_1766966602_n.jpg
  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bambu wrote: »
    whar wrote: »
    "However it just so happened to speed up during the Cambrain???????"

    Yes evolutionary rates always increase following a mass extinction. This is due to entire ecosystems opening up to new organisms. These organisms change rapidly, compared to other periods, due to the new environment and the decreased competition caused by the extinction. The same is true during the Cambrian except instead of extinction these were among the first animals to inhabit most of the environs. The Cambrian is not an argument against evolution.

    "Why don't you address my points and stop plastering this board with prefabricated arguments............."

    I do address your points, see the paragraph above. Why don't you read this transtional forms and then explain why it does not show evidence of transitional forms?

    Oh and those "prefabricated arguments" are called science and evidence. Hell all your points are old creationist nonsense going back years.

    No new information in DNA. New Information in DNA

    No observed acts of speciation. Observed acts of speciation

    Mischaracterizing poor R.L. Carroll. Quote Mining

    Do you think the man that produced all these works by Dr Carroll does not believe evolution is true? Of course he does but you would take a single sentence from a paper he wrote 14 years ago and put forward the idea he believes evolution is false? That is genuinely despicable behavior and does nothing to undermine the actual evidence supporting evolution.

    All your arguments are smoke Bambu they have no substance.

    Really????

    You might get some cosigns, however, you are the only one whose argument is smoke............

    Explain to me again the time frame of the Cambrian explosion...........

    Wait.....

    I found it......
    whar wrote: »
    Ape to humans took 6 million years. We see clear evidence of this in the fossil record but you are not going to see that occur in the lab or even in the wild given we have only been looking for 150 years.

    Artificial Selection does give interesting result particularly in agriculture. Cabbage is a simple plant that is a popular crop in Russia and elsewhere. In fact its origins are from that region northern Asia basically. Through selective breeding cabbage has been changed into Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale.

    That is a pretty significant set of changes to an organism. It is hard to argue that evolution can not produce large scale changes to an organism when farmers for 1000s of years have been using evolution to do just that.

    And your downfall........
    bambu wrote: »
    This post illustrates your ignorance on the topic of evolution.....

    Cabbage did not "evolve" into the other vegetables that you mentioned......

    cabbage, Broccoli, Brussel Sprouts, Cauliflower, and Kale are genetic modifications of of the same species (Brassica oleracea)......

    The plants are selected for desirable characteristics that can be maintained by propagation......

    This is no different than the hybridization of cannabis.....

    Several genetic variations.....

    However, no new species.... let alone "proof" of evolution.....

    I don't care if the author supports evolution or not, if he questions the validity of the Cambrain time period it should not be ignored........

    So again....

    “The extreme speed of anatomical change and adaptive radiation during this brief time period requires explanations that go beyond those proposed for the evolution of species within the modern biota.” R. L. Carroll

    And I don't care if you use arguments from talkorigins and such.............

    Just be specific.....

    If you make an argument, make it..........

    Don't post a link and expect it to prove your gobbledygook......

    & cosigns from @beenwise only illustrates that your argument is foolish............


    We need moderation..........

    @young_chitlin.....

    What's the score??????

    @oceanic.....

    http://youtu.be/w-Ixtk-_clo

    Didn't watch the video; perhaps you could explain it to me later. I'm having enough fun watching Whar tear your arguments apart.

    Nice attempt at a diversion. You should address him for now.

  • bambu
    bambu Members Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2014
    @whar..........

    You will love this one.....
    But the difficulty of understanding the absence of vast piles of fossiliferous strata, which on my theory no doubt were somewhere accumulated before the Silurian epoch, is very great.

    If these most ancient beds had been wholly worn away by denudation, or obliterated by metamorphic action, we ought to find only small remnants of the formations next succeeding them in age, and these ought to be very generally ina metamorphosed condition.

    But the descriptions which we now possess of the Silurian deposits over immense territories in Russia and in North America, do not support the view.......
    Oceanic wrote: »

    Didn't watch the video; perhaps you could explain it to me later. I'm having enough fun watching Whar tear your arguments apart.

    Nice attempt at a diversion. You should address him for now.

    It was a response to this......
    Oceanic wrote: »
    ? !

    It is a video about ? riding.......

    Which is a reference to what you are doing with @whar.........

    Perhaps you should ? unless you want to join the debate..........

    @sion.....

    We can go..........

    My challenge to @oceanic and his band of misfits remains open..........

  • Bodhi
    Bodhi Members Posts: 7,932 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Losers are usually the most upset. You are hilariously pitiful.
  • jono
    jono Members Posts: 30,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    LOL entertaining. Y'all need to get that debate jumping off cuz all this back and forth has gone on too long.