ladies of the ic... how do you feel about abortion?
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Zee, I respect you stance on this greatly. Mostly because it is not a biblical/religion driven. Is it your belief that it's murder or that women are so stupid that they have to deal with the consequences?"Women have the right to chose"
It's not her life she's aborting though is it? -
Oxymoronic....
Zee, I respect you stance on this greatly. Mostly because it is not a biblical/religion driven. Is it your belief that it's murder or that women are so stupid that they have to deal with the consequences?"Women have the right to chose"
It's not her life she's aborting though is it?
The way I see it is;
If a baby is born and a mother kills it, it's murder. But if the baby is unborn and a mother kills it, it's justifiable?
I don't think so.
With the vast amount of birth control available, when used combined, there's virtually no such thing as an 'unplanned pregnancy', and yes women would be either very stupid or a victim of freak circumstance. -
it should be legal
Zee, I respect you stance on this greatly. Mostly because it is not a biblical/religion driven. Is it your belief that it's murder or that women are so stupid that they have to deal with the consequences?"Women have the right to chose"
It's not her life she's aborting though is it?
The way I see it is;
If a baby is born and a mother kills it, it's murder. But if the baby is unborn and a mother kills it, it's justifiable?
I don't think so.
With the vast amount of birth control available, when used combined, there's virtually no such thing as an 'unplanned pregnancy', and yes women would be either very stupid or a victim of freak circumstance.
So if a woman is ? and gives birth to a baby it's ok for her to ? it? Or is there a difference between a fetus and a human being? -
I guess I'm trying to understand your passion for the subject.
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it should be legalI see the contradiction too
You imply that the life is not completely developed, yet refer to it as a person as though it is
Condoms are murder
Gametes are people too! -
Want to know what 90's NFL players think of abortion?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP0Dm2HgnJg#t=71 -
it should be legalNot much of a shot at life if they're born into destitution
Putting a child up for adoption >>>>>>> eliminating the shot at life it has with abortion.
If you are genuinely that poverty stricken, adoption gives the child a chance. For instance, Steve Jobs was adopted, and look at the influence his life had.
I wouldn't even put a kid up for adoption. Most people who adopt kids don't want Black babies in the first place--they are the last to get adopted and comprise a large percentage of kids in that system. Adoptions have ? up racial/classist processes, anyway. It's the mother's child and not my place to tell her what the ? to do.
My point is, any life is better than no life at all.
The woman's problem isn't the pregnancy, it's poverty - so why should a life be killed for that?
You can't really call a woman a 'mother' if she's getting an abortion either... What is she the mother of? A dead, unborn baby?
Yeahp, I get your point. I just don't respect it or think it is logical.
As long as you have capitalism, racism, and sexism, and a deteriorating social safety net, you'll always have women who fall under the poverty level with a lack of resources to take care of children. Unless you are an anarchist planning for a complete overhaul of the entire system that oppresses people economically and provides support for women having children alone with plenty of resources, making abortion illegal isn't a viable/realistic option.
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it should be illegalwe out here, @LadyZee
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it should be legalwell that's definitely not something you hear every day on the i.c.
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it should be legalif you feel like you can live with that go head & make it do what it do.
couldn't be me tho. -
@LadyZee I'm on your side.
Before getting pregnant, I was pro abortion,
but now that I have my baby, I can't imagine life without her.
I'm all for letting these babies live.
Shame on those women who get multiple abortions... I personally know of a girl that had 9 abortions.
& when it comes to a woman getting ? which results in a pregnancy... I think a trauma therapy & the love of her child will help her pull through.. but that's a very delicate situation. -
I am pro choice even tho it's not something I plan to do personally. There are woman who go around having multiple abortions but I can't imagine imposing illegal laws on them and forcing them to raise the child. They are obviously not fit to raise a child properly. Why allow that to happen to those innocent children. The foster care is not the best place for children and not all children get adopted to nice homes. So until there is a better option to rescue those kids from poverty and give them better life opportunity when the mother is unable to care for them, abortion should be legal.
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it should be illegalAbortion is NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM IS "WOMAN'S RIGHT ISSUE"!! It was systematically put into place to control the population, so we don't end up like China. It was a very cruel trick, played on woman, and they fell for it...HARD! The same people saying, that they're pro-choice, are the same people who say the Chinese 'one-child' policy is a crime against human rights. At least China was up-front and honest about their intensions. As humans, our bodies are programmed for ? and making babies. From the moment a woman wakes up, her body is looking to get pregnant. A woman's period, is her body giving up for the month, and saying "let's get 'em next month. As men, we produce billions of sperm for to sole purpose of insemination.
As for back alley abortions, if someone wants to subject themselves to that kind stupidity, then let them. If too many people begin to poke out their eyes with wire hangers, there will not be any bills pass to create safe and clean clinics where people can go safely gouge out their eyes. How stupid do you have to be to put your life in danger just to rid yourself of a child? A majority of abortions are for frivolous reasons. ? and ? count for less than 1% of abortions. It is not a coincidence that once abortions became legal, the college graduation rate amongst women and divorces skyrocketed. Most abortions are by teenage to college aged girls who refuse to sacrifice their youth to raise a child. It has nothing to do with health, or financial restrictions. It's a sad world we live in. -
it should be illegal^GOAT
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Abortions unfortunately are more prevalent among minorities (blacks/hispanics) due to the cycle of poverty (systemically created by whites). It's obvious that most people of color who have abortions aren't financially able to care for a child, live in environments unfit for a child(see: the rate of minorities living below the poverty line and area crime rate) or are children themselves, who're not ready for that responsibility (see: the relatively high rates of teen pregnancy, although to be fair it’s dropping due to increased access to health services such as safe abortion clinics and more emphasis on sex education). White women of a similar socio-economic background fall victim to these factors as well.
Everyone can see the obvious proverbial elephant in the room: being pro-life is a fundamental conservative stance and statistically, conservatives are predominantly white americans. The foul stench of conservative hypocrisy permeates the air per usual: These are people who fight for the right to take a life by recreational hunting and fight for the right to take a life during self-defense (even if an assailant isn’t life threatening or has a weapon) yet they fight against women of color’s right to take an unwanted, invasive life that will ruin their own life.
It’s always hilarious when conservatives trumpet the adoption route without realizing blacks are statistically the race least likely to get adopted and because of this, cost exponentially cheaper than white babies (whose prices are raised higher because they’re in high demand). This in turns means white babies are more likely to be adopted by families from an affluent socio-economic background while black babies via their poorer or limited selection of suitors are more likely to be inserted back to the cycle of poverty their biologically parents or government tried to help them circumvent by giving them up or taking them away.
Pro-lifers only give a ? about a potential child’s life before they are born. Ask any pro-lifer are they aware of adoption statistics and the sad life of the unwanted black orphan child in a local foster care nearby, just as they are aware of conservative rhetoric and propaganda designed to uphold the status quo- by oppressing people of color and women. Then ask said pro-life since they fought so hard for that black orphan child to be born, will they adopt one? Watch how fast that “will someone please think about the children!?” facade evaporates.
The vast majority of Pro-lifers are chained by religious dogma, selective morality and primitive pronatalism. -
it should be legalThere won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right -
it should be legalThere won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right
Well when it comes to euthenasia or assisted suicide for the sick or elderly these are the same people that oppose anything that might help them to live, want to live or at least die somewhat comfortable - things like welfare, social security and affordable health care. -
There won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
Yeah, I agree it's definitely obvious. This discussion always evokes a philosophical debate centered around normative ethics.
Exhibit A:
LadyZee implied that life has intrinsic value and that life no matter what (even if it's a tragic life of pain & suffering) > non-existence. This is a perfect example of how people can present a position in a subjective philosophical argument as a fact and judge & dehumanize another group of people based off their (and the culture they were raised in) opinions of morality.My point is, any life is better than no life at all.
Yeah... no offense, I'm not sure if that is pertinent to this topic but it definitely isn't pertinent to my post.The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right
My assertion about pro-lifers refers to their stance toward abortions and the underlying reasoning behind it.
My opinion of how a conservative conceptualizes 'life' doesn't match the implication that your sentiment of “The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born..." suggested. -
it should be legalThe Iconoclast wrote: »There won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
Yeah, I agree it's definitely obvious. This discussion always evokes a philosophical debate centered around normative ethics.
Exhibit A:
LadyZee implied that life has intrinsic value and that life no matter what (even if it's a tragic life of pain & suffering) > non-existence. This is a perfect example of how people can present a position in a subjective philosophical argument as a fact and judge & dehumanize another group of people based off their (and the culture they were raised in) opinions of morality.My point is, any life is better than no life at all.
Yeah... no offense, I'm not sure if that is pertinent to this topic but it definitely isn't pertinent to my post.The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right
My assertion about pro-lifers refers to their stance toward abortions and the underlying reasoning behind it.
My opinion of how a conservative conceptualizes 'life' doesn't match the implication that your sentiment of “The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born..." suggested.
"Pro-lifers only give a ? about a potential child’s life before they are born."
If they oppose euthanasia then they aren't really only pro-life in the instance of abortion
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it should be legalThere won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right
Well when it comes to euthenasia or assisted suicide for the sick or elderly these are the same people that oppose anything that might help them to live, want to live or at least die somewhat comfortable - things like welfare, social security and affordable health care.
It's almost like they just want to prolong the suffering
they do not want to pay for the elderly to live better but the thing that would fix that, assisted suicide, is fought tooth and claw
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The Iconoclast wrote: »There won't be any agreement as long as there are differing views on whether or not an unenjoyable life is really better than no life at all
Yeah, I agree it's definitely obvious. This discussion always evokes a philosophical debate centered around normative ethics.
Exhibit A:
LadyZee implied that life has intrinsic value and that life no matter what (even if it's a tragic life of pain & suffering) > non-existence. This is a perfect example of how people can present a position in a subjective philosophical argument as a fact and judge & dehumanize another group of people based off their (and the culture they were raised in) opinions of morality.My point is, any life is better than no life at all.
Yeah... no offense, I'm not sure if that is pertinent to this topic but it definitely isn't pertinent to my post.The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born is not entirely true because a lot of the opposition for euthanasia and other forms of assisted suicide is also from the right
My assertion about pro-lifers refers to their stance toward abortions and the underlying reasoning behind it.
My opinion of how a conservative conceptualizes 'life' doesn't match the implication that your sentiment of “The idea that right wingers only care about life before you're born..." suggested.
"Pro-lifers only give a ? about a potential child’s life before they are born."
If they oppose euthanasia then they aren't really only pro-life in the instance of abortion
Again, no offense. Maybe you’re misinterpreting my post, because I’m not quite sure why this isn't registering.
I’ll try clarifying this again, to erase any confusion: My statement "Pro-lifers only give a ? about a potential child’s life before they are born." it’s clearly derisively descriptive of the how a pro-lifer acts toward a potential child before it’s born compared to after it’s actually born. As a matter of fact, you’re picture in the spoiler expresses the exact sentiment I was trying to convey with my assertion albeit mine was less concise and lacked the comedic wit of the legendary George Carlin. GOAT pic drop btw, hopefully you don’t mind if I borrow it lol, I could use it the next time a thread involves a pro-choice v. pro-life debate.
Moreover, I’m not suggesting that I think pro-lifers only value life in the instance of abortion but are flippant toward life in all other cases - I’m fully aware of how conservatives conceptualize life, as I’m sure everyone in this thread is. My statement was alluding to the selective morality that the vast majority of pro-lifers exhibit. Honestly I don’t even understand why we’re even engaged in this discussion fam, especially since you and I apparently share the same views on this subject (I only take exception to your comment of making it mandatory). -
it should be legalA potential child isn't really a potential child after it's born so one can only care about a potential child before it's born
I Misunderstood tho
I thought you meant that they're only prolife in the instance of abortion, which is contradicted by their efforts to thwart the assisted Suicide movement
The mandatory comment was sarcasm
Gotta cosign their logic being awful
One justification for their support of the death penalty is that criminals deserve death whereas the preborn are innocent, but many of these kids they want to deny abortions to are likely to end up being criminals considering that something like 85% of those currently behind bars are born into broken homes
So they want to make these kids exist, deny them social support to curb delinquency while they can still be salvaged, just to give them the death penalty as adults
This costs the tax payers more, which they consider bad and criticize Democrats for doing
Contradictions galore -
Abortions should be legal.
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