Chicago Teen Arrested For Trying To Join ISIS
Options
Comments
-
okay, when we're discussing the causes of legitimate world events, stop quoting polls that saying "AMERICA IS THE MOST DANGEROUS ? ." if only because you talk about this poll EVERY TEN SECONDS.kingblaze84 wrote: »For me to blame America for the chaos and mess Iraq is in now is actually worldwide, supported opinion. You've seen the polls. A Gallup worldwide poll in 2014 had America being the nation seen as the most dangerous and the biggest threat to world peace.
no.kingblaze84 wrote: »I do agree with you that the Shiite militias, members of ISIS and Al-Qaeda do deserve their blame for the chaos too. But America destabilized the nation and brought forth the disaster the region sees now, via refugees and violence. Also don't forget all the weapons and bombs America brought over there. Iran also did not topple Saddam, so they don't get the blame America will get. I won't blame America ENTIRELY though of course. But it get's the lion's share of the blame, fair?
so you're basically saying "America's 100% to blame!!!" and then later admitting that other people, okay, might also be a problem. but the disaster we're seeing now isn't because America destabilized the nation: it's because AFTER that, Iran pumped weapons in and encouraged militias, and the Iraqi government decided to politicize their military and do kind of the same thing, and the Sunnis went back to rejecting the system because of that and because they really don't get that they're a minority in Iraq.
again, i concur that the US a) removed the "stable" government and b) handled the aftermath poorly. but i will not agree everything subsequent is all the US's fault because i am not going to pretend that anyone's actions during the past ELEVEN YEARS can be waved away with "but the US took out the government in 2003."
please, forget that "America toppled the prior government" ? , because you're not equating to Russia SENDING TROOPS INTO UKRAINE and stealing a piece of that country. further, note that instead of blaming Russia for continued instability happening there RIGHT NOW, you're desperate to blame the US for the whole thing.kingblaze84 wrote: »As far as your 4th point, I assume you're speaking of Russia. Ukraine is not as big a mess as Iraq lol. It'sbad of course, but remember America helped topple Ukraine's previous govt anyway (according to various sources). We all saw how quickly America accepted Ukraine's new govt
which comes back to my prior point: on some of these topics, you are no longer making legitimate arguments, but rather, blaming the US alone and supporting it as best you can.
No I don't blame America ALONE, I'll concede that. The Sunnis via Al-Qaeda and ISIS are committing their fair amount of carnage/revenge obviously, and Iran encouraging Shiite militias with weapons was inevitable with Saddam being taken out. Iran is one reason ISIS doesn't have Baghdad now though, no other Shiite nation in the region would be so friendly. But America in my eyes and most of the world gets the lion's share of blame when it comes to destabilization of that country, Saddam had the nation stable for DECADES. Imagine how messy Iraq is going to look for the foreseeable future. THIS is why America will get the lion's share of the blame and EXACTLY why ISIS is winning the propaganda war in the Middle East now. Many, MANY people in that region want PAYBACK against America and anyone who does or did business with them, don't take my word for it, ask experts on the ground.
And as far as our old disagreement about Crimea, the people of Crimea voted to join Russia and I haven't seen people in Crimea revolt against Russia yet, have you?? And as far as the people of eastern Ukraine who have already set up unofficial republics loyal to Russian interests, they seem to be fighting TO get closer to Russia. I have no opinion on Russia sending its tanks into eastern Ukraine but I did say that America has a history of doing the same and lately worse. It is what it is. I love America but genuinely HATE its foreign policy, if that isn't obvious by now lol -
And sorry if I bring up those world polls so much, it's only cuz, you know, it's the 3rd year in a row America won the most dangerous nation in the world Gallup poll. In all honesty, I'm trying to help America IMPROVE its image by asking it to try a different approach. Obama kind of understood this at one point it but special interests got in the way I suppose. American politicians don't seem to get it yet either. Sad most of the world gets it but America doesn't.
-
it's also a country that has ACTIVELY contributed to the sectarian politics that have made Iraq so unstable. so honestly, if we give them credit for helping to blunt ISIS's attacks, we should criticize them if we're going to criticize the US for doing the same thing.kingblaze84 wrote: »Iran is one reason ISIS doesn't have Baghdad now though, no other Shiite nation in the region would be so friendly.
admittedly, there are reasons to criticize either that differ, so i'm talking in the sense of "why is (country X) ? around in Iraq?"
it's fine to give the US the blame for tossing out Saddam, that paragon of freedom and virtue, but there is a point where we leave "the US blew ? up in 2003" and move on to "in 2014, people are responsible for their actions." i guess we disagree about how long it takes?kingblaze84 wrote: »But America in my eyes and most of the world gets the lion's share of blame when it comes to destabilization of that country, Saddam had the nation stable for DECADES.
lack of CRAZY REVOLT in Crimea is not really the point:kingblaze84 wrote: »And as far as our old disagreement about Crimea, the people of Crimea voted to join Russia and I haven't seen people in Crimea revolt against Russia yet, have you?? And as far as the people of eastern Ukraine who have already set up unofficial republics loyal to Russian interests, they seem to be fighting TO get closer to Russia.
-Russia sent military forces into Ukraine --remember, Russia signed treaties guaranteeing the integrity of Ukraine, to include Crimea-- in order to destabilize the country;
-Ukraine still has DRAMA;
-apparently, it ain't a big deal that Russia does stuff like that again and again?
we're not talking about the thoughtful analysis of learned men when we talk about this poll, mankingblaze84 wrote: »And sorry if I bring up those world polls so much, it's only cuz, you know, it's the 3rd year in a row America won the most dangerous nation in the world Gallup poll. -
it's also a country that has ACTIVELY contributed to the sectarian politics that have made Iraq so unstable. so honestly, if we give them credit for helping to blunt ISIS's attacks, we should criticize them if we're going to criticize the US for doing the same thing.kingblaze84 wrote: »Iran is one reason ISIS doesn't have Baghdad now though, no other Shiite nation in the region would be so friendly.
admittedly, there are reasons to criticize either that differ, so i'm talking in the sense of "why is (country X) ? around in Iraq?"
it's fine to give the US the blame for tossing out Saddam, that paragon of freedom and virtue, but there is a point where we leave "the US blew ? up in 2003" and move on to "in 2014, people are responsible for their actions." i guess we disagree about how long it takes?kingblaze84 wrote: »But America in my eyes and most of the world gets the lion's share of blame when it comes to destabilization of that country, Saddam had the nation stable for DECADES.
lack of CRAZY REVOLT in Crimea is not really the point:kingblaze84 wrote: »And as far as our old disagreement about Crimea, the people of Crimea voted to join Russia and I haven't seen people in Crimea revolt against Russia yet, have you?? And as far as the people of eastern Ukraine who have already set up unofficial republics loyal to Russian interests, they seem to be fighting TO get closer to Russia.
-Russia sent military forces into Ukraine --remember, Russia signed treaties guaranteeing the integrity of Ukraine, to include Crimea-- in order to destabilize the country;
-Ukraine still has DRAMA;
-apparently, it ain't a big deal that Russia does stuff like that again and again?
we're not talking about the thoughtful analysis of learned men when we talk about this poll, mankingblaze84 wrote: »And sorry if I bring up those world polls so much, it's only cuz, you know, it's the 3rd year in a row America won the most dangerous nation in the world Gallup poll.
Yeah I guess we disagree on how long it will take Iraq to recover, remember Iraq still wasn't over what the British did to them when it got its independence. This is beyond America as I admitted, Iraq has a pretty brutal past as we all know. From what the Mongols did, to what Britain did and America, I think it will take a long time to quiet things down in Baghdad. And why we will simply agree to disagree on the massive and lion's share blame America will and IS getting worldwide. In the end, taking out Saddam was the catalyst of this whole mess.
Russia probably did break rules when it comes to Ukraine and Crimea, ok fine whatever. But either way, the Crimeans aren't revolting against Russian rule and eastern Ukraine is fighting to get closer to Russia, so there's not much America and the world can do about it.
I do get your Russian criticism though, it's legit but the people of eastern Ukraine want to FIGHT to get closer to Russia, there's nothing anyone can do about it and NATO isn't doing ? . We all know most of the world rolls its eyes when America speaks on this issue and that's not helping Ukraine either -
it may have kicked off these current events, but the catalyst right now is sectarian ? .kingblaze84 wrote: »In the end, taking out Saddam was the catalyst of this whole mess.
Russia ran military forces into Ukraine and currently assists people in east Ukraine (as opposed to a unified populace there) with outside support. if the US was doing this, you would be OUTRAGED. it's not about the specific politics of Ukraine, it's about the fact that the US gets slammed for meddling while Russia (or whoever) does not.kingblaze84 wrote: »I do get your Russian criticism though, it's legit but the people of eastern Ukraine want to FIGHT to get closer to Russia, there's nothing anyone can do about it and NATO isn't doing ? . We all know most of the world rolls its eyes when America speaks on this issue and that's not helping Ukraine either
yeah, NATO does not want to fight Russia, it is what it is, but that's not REALLY what i am talking about.
-
it may have kicked off these current events, but the catalyst right now is sectarian ? .kingblaze84 wrote: »In the end, taking out Saddam was the catalyst of this whole mess.
Russia ran military forces into Ukraine and currently assists people in east Ukraine (as opposed to a unified populace there) with outside support. if the US was doing this, you would be OUTRAGED. it's not about the specific politics of Ukraine, it's about the fact that the US gets slammed for meddling while Russia (or whoever) does not.kingblaze84 wrote: »I do get your Russian criticism though, it's legit but the people of eastern Ukraine want to FIGHT to get closer to Russia, there's nothing anyone can do about it and NATO isn't doing ? . We all know most of the world rolls its eyes when America speaks on this issue and that's not helping Ukraine either
yeah, NATO does not want to fight Russia, it is what it is, but that's not REALLY what i am talking about.
Well the US would get slammed by me and many others if it again disrupts a nation's stability because let's face it, lately when America gets involved....(you know what I'm gonna say). Russia isn't getting slammed as much by the media and world because for the most part because it doesn't create massive wars worldwide lately, compared to USA.
Sectarian BS is definitely one of the main problems in the ISIS situation in the region but Saddam kept things together. He made Iraq progressive for women's rights and education, and he created an environment of stability and peace (usually). No car bombings every five seconds, no slavery with price tags, and definitely more protection for minorities and Christians then what we see now. Bubbling underneath the surface was radical Islam of course, but Saddam kept it all under control for 23 ? years. I see your point about Shia vs Sunni but a good leader can bring people together and Saddam, as bad as he was, did just that. Sorry, America removing Saddam is the catalyst for this mess. -
and you know what i'll say? if your position is, "well, it doesn't really matter as much when Russia does it," then you forfeit the right to ? about the US doing it. seriously, your position is whether or not it's right or wrong is determined by the scale of the crime?kingblaze84 wrote: »Well the US would get slammed by me and many others if it again disrupts a nation's stability because let's face it, lately when America gets involved...
...by encouraging sectarian beef that kept the Sunnis on top of the Shia and got the Kurds gassed. gee, i wonder why there's all this post-Saddam sectarian drama!kingblaze84 wrote: »Sectarian BS is definitely one of the main problems in the ISIS situation in the region but Saddam kept things together.
do you not understand the difference between a good leader that "brings people together" and a dictator who kills people that don't do what he says? because this is a key distinction when we talk about Saddam.kingblaze84 wrote: »I see your point about Shia vs Sunni but a good leader can bring people together and Saddam, as bad as he was, did just that.
-
and you know what i'll say? if your position is, "well, it doesn't really matter as much when Russia does it," then you forfeit the right to ? about the US doing it. seriously, your position is whether or not it's right or wrong is determined by the scale of the crime?kingblaze84 wrote: »Well the US would get slammed by me and many others if it again disrupts a nation's stability because let's face it, lately when America gets involved...
...by encouraging sectarian beef that kept the Sunnis on top of the Shia and got the Kurds gassed. gee, i wonder why there's all this post-Saddam sectarian drama!kingblaze84 wrote: »Sectarian BS is definitely one of the main problems in the ISIS situation in the region but Saddam kept things together.
do you not understand the difference between a good leader that "brings people together" and a dictator who kills people that don't do what he says? because this is a key distinction when we talk about Saddam.kingblaze84 wrote: »I see your point about Shia vs Sunni but a good leader can bring people together and Saddam, as bad as he was, did just that.
Scale of the crime always matters, what makes you think it doesn't? In the end, many nations act corrupt as hell but the level of disrupting WHOLE REGIONS is what lately sets America apart. Don't take my word for it, look at all the, um, DATA of what people think on this issue. Any guesses as to why Russia is NOT seen as the biggest threat to world peace 3 years in a row according to Gallup world polls..?????? I'm not here to bash America, but I am here to help give a reality check. I know people who travel the world and people in Europe are fond to say much worse then anything I say here. Scale of the crime or crimes absolutely matters, let's not be naive.
And yes we know Saddam was a pretty brutal guy but he still held the nation together, compared to the catastrophe Iraq is under now. When it comes to Saddam, to be fair, it's ALL about comparisons to modern Iraq, no is saying he's an angel or didn't do his part to forment sectarian anger to keep power. ISIS, Baghdad's weak ass govt that can't keep things under control or Saddam? I'll take Saddam! -
Syrian Ambassador expresses gratitude for India, ONE BILLION strong and only a few miles from ISIS territory, for staying out of the civil war in the Syria and Iraq. He also said ISIS is a Saudi Arabian, Turkish, and American creation. Sad thing is he's basically telling the truth, American arms, money and ammo with Sunni sympathizers all over the region basically created the conditions for ISIS to be born
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-ambassador-calls-isis-american-myth-230412940.html
The Syrian Ambassador to India claimed that ISIS was an American invention on Wednesday, among other controversial remarks.
The statements were made at a press conference hosted by the Indian Women’s Press Corps in New Delhi, the Hindustan Times reports.
“ISIS is an American myth, which gets direct support from Tayyip Erdogan’s [the president] Turkey and is funded by Saudi Arabia and Qatar,” according to Ambassador Riad Kamel Abbas. “Al Qaeda appeared in Syria after the US invaded Iraq. Before that there was no al Qaeda in Syria. It is clear that al Qaeda was created by the US and it is supporting ISIS.”
-
This happened before with the Latin Disciples gang, one of their members was a gang member and an Al Quida member
http://pibillwarner.wordpress.com/2011/09/20/u-s-appeals-court-throws-out-17-year-sentence-for-? -bomber-jose-padilla-as-too-lenient-padilla-aka-abdullah-al-muhajir-was-gang-member-of-maniac-latin-disciples/ -
because doing something WRONG is wrong whether or not it's as big of a crime as someone else's. you don't get to steal money and not call it theft because someone else somewhere else stole more. saying "they're not as bad as America" is not, in fact, a justification to do whatever the ? you want. but you seem to think that it's a legitimate excuse.kingblaze84 wrote: »Scale of the crime always matters, what makes you think it doesn't?
considering that you give passes for "not being America," that's the impression you givekingblaze84 wrote: »I'm not here to bash America-
let's not be naive: you may not have read my post correctlykingblaze84 wrote: »Scale of the crime or crimes absolutely matters, let's not be naive.
do we all know Saddam was a pretty brutal guy? because someone wrote this on this forum the other day:kingblaze84 wrote: »And yes we know Saddam was a pretty brutal guy but he still held the nation together, compared to the catastrophe Iraq is under now.
"a good leader can bring people together and Saddam, as bad as he was, did just that"
again, do you not understand the difference between a good leader that "brings people together" and a dictator who kills people that don't do what he says? you're not saying he didn't encourage sectarian anger? you JUST said he "BROUGHT PEOPLE TOGETHER" and gave him "good leader" status for it! -
because doing something WRONG is wrong whether or not it's as big of a crime as someone else's. you don't get to steal money and not call it theft because someone else somewhere else stole more. saying "they're not as bad as America" is not, in fact, a justification to do whatever the ? you want. but you seem to think that it's a legitimate excuse.kingblaze84 wrote: »Scale of the crime always matters, what makes you think it doesn't?
considering that you give passes for "not being America," that's the impression you givekingblaze84 wrote: »I'm not here to bash America-
let's not be naive: you may not have read my post correctlykingblaze84 wrote: »Scale of the crime or crimes absolutely matters, let's not be naive.
do we all know Saddam was a pretty brutal guy? because someone wrote this on this forum the other day:kingblaze84 wrote: »And yes we know Saddam was a pretty brutal guy but he still held the nation together, compared to the catastrophe Iraq is under now.
"a good leader can bring people together and Saddam, as bad as he was, did just that"
again, do you not understand the difference between a good leader that "brings people together" and a dictator who kills people that don't do what he says? you're not saying he didn't encourage sectarian anger? you JUST said he "BROUGHT PEOPLE TOGETHER" and gave him "good leader" status for it!
Let's agree Saddam was brutal, my point is that he did the job of what a leader is supposed to do, bring stability and overall peace to his or her nation. He achieved this in a vicious manner yes, but when we see what we're seeing now in hindsight, the only fair conclusion is that Saddm was better then the chaos engulfing Iraq now.
As far as America and its unfortunate scales of chaos lately, this doesn't mean I'm excusing the chaos some other nations may be participating in right now. BUT we have to be realistic and admit that America has done a lot wrong foreign policy wise and these things have destabilized the Middle East region in a way no other nation has done LATELY. Russia doing what it's doing in eastern Europe is not even close to what America has done in the Middle East.
American policy there has created massive amounts of refugees, massive loss of life, massive sectarian wars that were largely avoided due to Saddam, and high cancer rates in Iraq due to white phosphorus and plutonium weapons being used. We can WISH other nations can get blamed the way America does, but as the old saying goes, wishing something doesn't make it so. Until Russia or some other nation destabilizes a WHOLE region or many parts of it, America sadly will get the most blame when it comes to chaos in the world. Of course ISIS deserves its fair share of blame too, but America indirectly created ISIS, along with its Sunni allies. Hence, America badly losing the propaganda war right now -
i'm arguing that he didn't bring stability and overall peace to his nation; he brutalized Shia/Kurds/whoever else he needed to to stay in power. if you want to say that was better than what we have right now? i'll leave that call to you, but i take issue with attributing this to "doing the job of what a leader is supposed to do." because that ain't it.kingblaze84 wrote: »Let's agree Saddam was brutal, my point is that he did the job of what a leader is supposed to do, bring stability and overall peace to his or her nation. He achieved this in a vicious manner yes, but when we see what we're seeing now in hindsight, the only fair conclusion is that Saddm was better then the chaos engulfing Iraq now.
...except it basically is, man, that's what i am saying.kingblaze84 wrote: »As far as America and its unfortunate scales of chaos lately, this doesn't mean I'm excusing the chaos some other nations may be participating in right now.
see, again, this is the issue: American policy didn't say "why don't you guys engage in crazy sectarian feuds?" when is the point where people are held responsible for actions THEY ACTUALLY COMMIT?kingblaze84 wrote: »American policy there has created massive amounts of refugees, massive loss of life, massive sectarian wars that were largely avoided due to Saddam, and high cancer rates in Iraq due to white phosphorus and plutonium weapons being used.
-
i'm arguing that he didn't bring stability and overall peace to his nation; he brutalized Shia/Kurds/whoever else he needed to to stay in power. if you want to say that was better than what we have right now? i'll leave that call to you, but i take issue with attributing this to "doing the job of what a leader is supposed to do." because that ain't it.kingblaze84 wrote: »Let's agree Saddam was brutal, my point is that he did the job of what a leader is supposed to do, bring stability and overall peace to his or her nation. He achieved this in a vicious manner yes, but when we see what we're seeing now in hindsight, the only fair conclusion is that Saddm was better then the chaos engulfing Iraq now.
...except it basically is, man, that's what i am saying.kingblaze84 wrote: »As far as America and its unfortunate scales of chaos lately, this doesn't mean I'm excusing the chaos some other nations may be participating in right now.
see, again, this is the issue: American policy didn't say "why don't you guys engage in crazy sectarian feuds?" when is the point where people are held responsible for actions THEY ACTUALLY COMMIT?kingblaze84 wrote: »American policy there has created massive amounts of refugees, massive loss of life, massive sectarian wars that were largely avoided due to Saddam, and high cancer rates in Iraq due to white phosphorus and plutonium weapons being used.
People are already holding ISIS responsible for its share of violence and the sectarian Baghdad govt and its militias do get the blame for a lot of the violence too, no one is saying they shouldn't be blamed for their fair share of the problems there. But they won't get the lion's share of blame for what's going on in the region like America gets because let's face it, American ties to Israel is like quicksand in the region and the brutal, long wars of Afghanistan and Iraq don't exactly make America look like peacekeepers. America stayed way too long in Afghanistan and America has been doing brutal sanctions in Iraq since the 90s, and half a million are said to have died in those sanctions. Adding to the wars in the region, people generally say America has killed more then Al-Qaeda and ISIS in the region, what's the propaganda against that....? This is what people are talking about. -
I'm sure Turkey isn't gonna like this news.........
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/19/us-airdrop-kurds-isis_n_6012250.html
U.S. Air Drops Arms To Kurdish Forces Fighting ISIS In Kobani
WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. military said Sunday it had airdropped weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to Kurdish forces defending the Syrian city of Kobani against Islamic State militants.
The airdrops Sunday were the first of their kind and followed weeks of U.S. and coalition airstrikes in and near Kobani, near the Turkish border. The U.S. said earlier Sunday that it had launched 11 airstrikes overnight in the Kobani area.
In a statement Sunday night, U.S. Central Command said U.S. C-130 cargo planes made multiple drops of arms and supplies provided by Kurdish authorities in Iraq. It said they were intended to enable continued resistance to Islamic State efforts to take full control of Kobani.
The airdrops are almost certain to anger the Turkish government, which has said it would oppose any U.S. arms transfers to the Kurdish rebels in Syria. Turkey views the main Kurdish group in Syria as an extension of the Turkish Kurd group known as the PKK, which has waged a 30-year insurgency in Turkey and is designated a terror group by the U.S. and by NATO. -
so here's the problem with this argument: if you're talking about the US being to blame because they took out Saddam... US ties to Israel don't have anything to do with that. and if that DOES matter as to why the US gets blamed for the current situation... well, it sounds less like blaming the US for what we're talking about and more like blaming the US just to blame the US.kingblaze84 wrote: »-because let's face it, American ties to Israel is like quicksand in the region-
seems like there's a difference between these.kingblaze84 wrote: »-and the brutal, long wars of Afghanistan and Iraq don't exactly make America look like peacekeepers.
seems like there was a reason for these sanctions.kingblaze84 wrote: »America stayed way too long in Afghanistan and America has been doing brutal sanctions in Iraq since the 90s-
are we talking about propaganda or actual blame now?kingblaze84 wrote: »Adding to the wars in the region, people generally say America has killed more then Al-Qaeda and ISIS in the region, what's the propaganda against that....? This is what people are talking about.
-
hmm...kingblaze84 wrote: »I'm sure Turkey isn't gonna like this news...
Turkey clears way for Iraqi Kurdish troops to battle Islamic State in Kobane, SyriaMURSITPINAR, Turkey — Turkey said Monday that it would allow Iraqi Kurdish fighters to cross its border into the besieged Syrian town of Kobane, where Syrian Kurds are battling Islamic State militants.
The opening of a land corridor would be another potential boost for the Kobane defenders following U.S. airdrops of weapons, ammunition and medical supplies to them late Sunday.
But the deal, the subject of intensive U.S. diplomatic talks over the past week, also depends on whether the separate Kurdish groups can resolve their deep differences in the interest of confronting a common enemy.
The tentative nature of the agreement reflected the convoluted history and political calculations of all parties, particularly the Kurds, whose ethnic homeland spreads across Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran.
Turkey had opposed delivering weapons to Kobane’s Syrian Kurds because of their affiliations with the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK), a group based in southeastern Turkey that has fought Turkish forces since the mid-1980s, seeking greater autonomy. Its leaders have threatened to tear up a recent peace accord with Turkey if Kobane falls.
The fiercest fighting in days shook the Syrian border town of Kobane, forcing more refugees to pour into Turkey for shelter from the violence. (Reuters)
Turkey and the United States have declared the PKK a terrorist organization, raising additional complications for American policymakers.
While the United States understands Turkey’s concerns, Secretary of State John F. Kerry said Monday during a visit to Indonesia, “We cannot take our eyes off the prize here. It would be irresponsible of us, as well as morally very difficult, to turn your back on a community fighting ISIL, as hard as it is, at this particular moment.” ISIL is one of several acronyms for the Islamic State.
For its part, the main Syrian Kurdish party, the Kurdish Democratic Union (PYD), is wary that its power could be undermined by allowing the more politically connected Iraqi Kurds, who maintain close ties with the West and relatively good relations with Turkey, to join their fight.
Idriss Nasaan, a spokesman for the Kobane Kurds, said the Iraqi Kurdish fighters will be welcome only if they “agree to fight under the command” of the local leadership.
Kerry acknowledged that the fighters in Kobane “are an offshoot group of the folks that our friends, the Turks, oppose.” But, he said, “they are valiantly fighting ISIL.”
As recently as last week, the Obama administration said that control of Kobane was not a “strategic” objective for U.S.-led forces conducting airstrikes against the Islamic State and that operations there were humanitarian in nature. But with militant forces surging toward the town, U.S. commanders have also stepped up airstrikes.
American warplanes have now struck the area around Kobane more than 135 times, far more than any other location since strikes began in Syria at the beginning of this month. Those strikes continued Monday, including one that the U.S. Central Command said blasted a “stray” shipment from the American airdrop to prevent “these supplies from falling into enemy hands.”
The administration has said repeatedly that airstrikes are not enough and that defeating the Islamic State will depend on local ground forces in Syria and Iraq.
Turkey had tentatively agreed late last week to allow the Iraqi Kurdish fighters, called pesh merga, to travel to Kobane. The deal was nearly upset, however, when U.S. officials publicly acknowledged that they had held direct talks with representatives of the Syrian Kurds.
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan told reporters Saturday that he considered the Syrian PYD “the same as the PKK, and that is a terrorist organization.” Referring to reports that the United States was considering sending arms directly to the Syrian Kurdish fighters, Erdogan said that “it would be wrong” to expect full Turkish participation in the coalition against the Islamic State “if a friendly country and a NATO ally like the U.S. openly admits such support for a terrorist organization.”
But when the situation in Kobane worsened, the administration feared that the town would be lost to the militants before any deal could be implemented.
Under a barrage of Islamic State mortar fire over the weekend, the Kobane defenders warned that they were nearly out of ammunition, according to senior administration officials. The Pentagon told the White House it could drop emergency supplies into the town, amid administration concern that the Turks would back out.
Turkey’s agreement stood, however, after Obama called Erdogan late Saturday to tell him that the planned airdrop was an emergency measure only and did not constitute a change in U.S. policy. Officials said the arms themselves had come from the Iraqi Kurds and were not “U.S.-produced” weapons.
The primary weapon used by the pesh merga is the Russian-made AK-47 assault rifle, and the United States previously arranged for Albania and other former Soviet-bloc countries that are now part of NATO to provide those fighters with additional supplies. The airdrops to the Syrian Kurds, who also use AK-47s, came from those Albanian shipments, said a senior U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to provide information beyond that included in official statements.
Early Monday, Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu said the pesh merga would be allowed to cross into Kobane. “We never wanted Kobane to fall,” Cavusoglu told reporters in the Turkish capital, Ankara.
Although Turkish media reported that the movement of the Iraqi forces into Kobane had already begun, U.S. officials said they expected the next 24 hours to be decisive in reaching a firm agreement among all parties, including the Syrian Kurds.
The president of Iraq’s Kurdish region, Massoud Barzani, ordered pesh merga units “to be deployed in Kobane in the next 48 hours via Turkey,” according to a Monday statement sent via Twitter by Hemin Hawrami, the foreign relations chief of Barzani’s ruling political party.
Turkey also has tried to leverage its support for the coalition effort to secure a U.S. pledge to expand its military campaign against the Islamic State into a fight against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.
Cavusoglu said Turkey also wants Syrian Kurds to unite against Assad and give up demands for autonomy over their region in order to receive Turkish aid.
But those longer-term concerns have clearly been overridden in recent days by events in Kobane. “It is a crisis moment,” Kerry said, “an emergency where we clearly do not want to see Kobane become a horrible example of the unwillingness of people to be able to help those who are fighting ISIL.”
-
so here's the problem with this argument: if you're talking about the US being to blame because they took out Saddam... US ties to Israel don't have anything to do with that. and if that DOES matter as to why the US gets blamed for the current situation... well, it sounds less like blaming the US for what we're talking about and more like blaming the US just to blame the US.kingblaze84 wrote: »-because let's face it, American ties to Israel is like quicksand in the region-
seems like there's a difference between these.kingblaze84 wrote: »-and the brutal, long wars of Afghanistan and Iraq don't exactly make America look like peacekeepers.
seems like there was a reason for these sanctions.kingblaze84 wrote: »America stayed way too long in Afghanistan and America has been doing brutal sanctions in Iraq since the 90s-
are we talking about propaganda or actual blame now?kingblaze84 wrote: »Adding to the wars in the region, people generally say America has killed more then Al-Qaeda and ISIS in the region, what's the propaganda against that....? This is what people are talking about.
When I said the brutal and long American campaigns of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't make America look like peacekeepers, I mean they were extremely ? for civilians up and down these nations and it's why America will get most of the blame in the region for the chaos there, right or wrong it's the overwhelming perception in the region. A well deserved perception.
And America's evil and STUPID foreign policy absolutely will get most of the blame in my eyes and in the eyes of many around the world, including many Americans. ISIS will get its blame of course for its role in the chaos but American foreign policy has been a form of terrorism around the world as well. Chaos breeds chaos and America is RESPONSIBLE for the chaotic lives of modern Iraqis through its massive destabilization. I consider many of the people in charge of Washington DC terrorists to be honest. That includes people in the White House, as Lupe Fiasco and several other rappers among others have said. Otherwise, Iraqis would not have treated Americans like this back in 2004
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bln0q8E5onE&feature=player_detailpage -
i am talking about more than "perception," however. it's not like in the average argument you're claiming "the US isn't mostly blame, but they will be perceived to be." you are actively assigning blame!kingblaze84 wrote: »When I said the brutal and long American campaigns of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't make America look like peacekeepers, I mean they were extremely ? for civilians up and down these nations and it's why America will get most of the blame in the region for the chaos there, right or wrong it's the overwhelming perception in the region.
who are these rappers, because if the list starts with Lupe Fiasco, i think it's only going downhill from therekingblaze84 wrote: »I consider many of the people in charge of Washington DC terrorists to be honest. That includes people in the White House, as Lupe Fiasco and several other rappers-
-
i am talking about more than "perception," however. it's not like in the average argument you're claiming "the US isn't mostly blame, but they will be perceived to be." you are actively assigning blame!kingblaze84 wrote: »When I said the brutal and long American campaigns of Afghanistan and Iraq didn't make America look like peacekeepers, I mean they were extremely ? for civilians up and down these nations and it's why America will get most of the blame in the region for the chaos there, right or wrong it's the overwhelming perception in the region.
who are these rappers, because if the list starts with Lupe Fiasco, i think it's only going downhill from therekingblaze84 wrote: »I consider many of the people in charge of Washington DC terrorists to be honest. That includes people in the White House, as Lupe Fiasco and several other rappers-
Yes I do mostly blame America for the mess that is Iraq now, it doesn't deserve ALL the blame, but most of it in my opinion. I won't hide from this opinion, and you're right on that. It is what it is, taking out Saddam caused this ? mess and until I hear a convincing argument otherwise, the perception will not change.
And I forgot the names of some of the other rappers who also labeled some members of the White House terrorists, but I'll admit some of them were foreign born. I listen to hip-hop from all over the world and the lyrics I've heard from some foreign hip-hop artists make me look like Bill O Reilly. American opinion around the world is that bad, and we have the war in Iraq to partially thank for that. -
actually, i was reading something today that raised an interesting point: Syria is a mess for reasons that aren't about the US invading it, and Assad is indirectly responsible for kicking off this ISIS phase, so if we're talking about current events... you are skipping over all THAT to blame the USkingblaze84 wrote: »Yes I do mostly blame America for the mess that is Iraq now, it doesn't deserve ALL the blame, but most of it in my opinion. I won't hide from this opinion, and you're right on that. It is what it is, taking out Saddam caused this ? mess and until I hear a convincing argument otherwise, the perception will not change.
look, fundamentally, if your rap music sucks, then i don't give a ? about your socio-politicial opinionskingblaze84 wrote: »And I forgot the names of some of the other rappers who also labeled some members of the White House terrorists, but I'll admit some of them were foreign born.
-
actually, i was reading something today that raised an interesting point: Syria is a mess for reasons that aren't about the US invading it, and Assad is indirectly responsible for kicking off this ISIS phase, so if we're talking about current events... you are skipping over all THAT to blame the USkingblaze84 wrote: »Yes I do mostly blame America for the mess that is Iraq now, it doesn't deserve ALL the blame, but most of it in my opinion. I won't hide from this opinion, and you're right on that. It is what it is, taking out Saddam caused this ? mess and until I hear a convincing argument otherwise, the perception will not change.
look, fundamentally, if your rap music sucks, then i don't give a ? about your socio-politicial opinionskingblaze84 wrote: »And I forgot the names of some of the other rappers who also labeled some members of the White House terrorists, but I'll admit some of them were foreign born.
I have great taste in hip-hop man, ? you lol...
But yeah Assad, due to being greedy for power, deserves some blame for ISIS being created. But then again, so do several other nations, like the Saudis, Turkish millionaires and Iraqis themselves, not just America. But ISIS started as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, so the Iraq War created the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to flourish. They took the experience fighting Americans into fighting Syrian govt, and that experience has proven very powerful for them. ISIS also became more powerful AFTER capturing Iraqi weapons, tanks and bases which were mostly American made. If America left Saddam alone, ISIS would have been too weak and isolated to do damage against Assad.
-
it's ALMOST like this is my pointkingblaze84 wrote: »But yeah Assad, due to being greedy for power, deserves some blame for ISIS being created. But then again, so do several other nations, like the Saudis, Turkish millionaires and Iraqis themselves, not just America.
Syria has had a lot of events that, while they followed the Iraq War, did not require the Iraq War to flourishkingblaze84 wrote: »But ISIS started as Al-Qaeda in Iraq, so the Iraq War created the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to flourish.
