Shaq and Kobe VS Shaq and Penny...

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  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    blu197 wrote: »
    So ILL wrote: »
    blu197 wrote: »
    So ILL wrote: »
    Him and Penny would've been just as, if not more dominant as he was with Kobe. ? forget that Penny was getting at Mike in the nineties, and he was well on his way to a hall of fame career if not for the injuries. And everybody is bringing up the Western Conference in the 00's like the East in the 90's was a walk in the park. You had the Bulls, Knicks and Pacers as championship-caliber damn near every year of the decade, not to mention the Bullets/Wizards (with Webber, Howard, Cheaney and nem), the Heat (with Zo and Tim Hardaway), and Charlotte (with Glen Rice) having consistently solid teams. Shaq and Penny would have had just as much work back then, too.

    If Shaq stayed in that garbage East with Penny he would've possibly seen more Finals in the early 00s but whoever came out the West if it were to be Portland in 00,Spurs in 01 or Kings in 02 they would easily walk away with the title just like Houston did in 95...

    It would've been tough, but easily? ? , please, any team Shaq was on in his prime (99-03) was never going to be easily beaten.

    Shaq got swept in 99 (before Kobes' big jump as a player) and Spurs beat them pretty easily in 03...

    So the Lakers got swept out of the playoffs too?

    Just like the Magic...

    You saying Penny couldn't have made a "jump as a player"


    The core of your argument is that the Magic had their shot and they failed... So did damn near EVERY other Championship team in history...
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    blu197 wrote: »
    Ifs Never Happen

    ? not even comparable.

    Penny (at his best) and Shaq didn't win so it's safe to say if Shaq stayed that would remain the case,

    Penny was "at his best" according to you...

    He was 4 years into the league before injury .. For comparisons'a sake, that's less seasons that Steph Curry has had.

    Do you think Steph has plateaued as a player ? ...

    blu197 wrote: »
    Ifs Never Happen

    ? not even comparable.

    [the Magic would never win a ring]... which is why Shaq left ... [the Lakers supporting cast was much better than what he had with the Magic]...

    1 -
    Their supporting casts were comparable and the Magic roster was collectively growing into their prime before they broke up.

    -3D
    -Nick Anderson
    -B shaw
    -Horace Grant

    These guys were no scrubs, they made it to the Finals in the 90s.

    Even if that angle was correct, you are basically saying that the supporting cast was the issue... Not Penny... Which shoots a hole in the foot of your entire argument...

    2-
    How are you making a young, egoistical, money-hungry Shaq out to be a wise, calculating Nostradamus?

    That was ONE factor in his Decision, and it was HIS perception. Dude probably thought he could have won anywhere...

    Remember he left Kobe too. Was it because Kobe was starting to suck and the Lakers couldn't win again with him?... Or did he have other motivations?

    His actions are hardly the basis by which to judge Penny Hardaway's potential.
  • Young Stef
    Young Stef Members Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Penny had experience Kobe airballed out the gym rookie year against the Jazz but the Black Mamba don't ? around tho.
  • SELASI_i
    SELASI_i Members Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭✭✭
    penny was a good player but not built for the long haul and he had a little bit of that lebron tentativeness in him as well, he would defer at times even though he was a major threat on the drive and on the perimeter. penny never put up mvp numbers and never was even considered mvp.

  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    @Peace_79

    I think what u not accounting for is Penny was a PG. Kobe was a scorer. So Orlando's supporting cast would be asked to do more than LA's.

    Rick fox, Fish, horry, etc would just b asked to hit open shots and play D. Nick Anderson, Grant, and Scott were asked to have big games and score. Penny wasn't the type to go put and drop 30, he was a PG
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    S2J wrote: »
    @Peace_79

    I think what u not accounting for is Penny was a PG. Kobe was a scorer. So Orlando's supporting cast would be asked to do more than LA's.

    Rick fox, Fish, horry, etc would just b asked to hit open shots and play D. Nick Anderson, Grant, and Scott were asked to have big games and score. Penny wasn't the type to go put and drop 30, he was a PG

    @S2J I hear that and I mostly agree with you.

    But supporting casts can be added to or augmented. You can't tell me that their core wasn't very, very good. The argument that they weren't good enough to win a title, especially with some additions, doesn't hold water...

    And I think you are putting to much weight on PG vs SG and the impact it has on the efficacy of a supporting cast.

    It isn't a zero sum game. Penny running the show has advantages and disadvantages vs Kobe carrying a larger load offensively.
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like i said Ifs dont happen.. Kobe was playing Penny and Mikes role with those teams.

    They played for a championship and got washed.. ? i could have been Jordan but i wasnt.....
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2015
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    penny was a good player but not built for the long haul and he had a little bit of that lebron tentativeness in him as well, he would defer at times even though he was a major threat on the drive and on the perimeter. penny never put up mvp numbers and never was even considered mvp.

    The premise of this thread assumes that Penny WAS built for the long haul. Take away durability and build your case on his potential and caliber as a player...


    How many MVP seasons did Kobe have in his first 4 years in the league?

    You think if Shaq stayed in Orlando, Penny's game ascedned, and the Magic got some rings; Penny would never be looked at as an MVP candidate?


    We know his career sucked. We are clear on that.

    What if it wasn't derailed by injury?

    Using fair assessment of his potential, start your argument there.
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Like i said Ifs dont happen.. Kobe was playing Penny and Mikes role with those teams.

    They played for a championship and got washed.. ? i could have been Jordan but i wasnt.....

    lol. Yeah ... definitely the same thing.

    But you don't have to entertain the question if you ain't about that. I respect your opinion.

    It is definitely comparable though, it doesn't take much thought to make the comparison.
  • SELASI_i
    SELASI_i Members Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peace_79 wrote: »
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    penny was a good player but not built for the long haul and he had a little bit of that lebron tentativeness in him as well, he would defer at times even though he was a major threat on the drive and on the perimeter. penny never put up mvp numbers and never was even considered mvp.

    The premise of this thread assumes that Penny WAS built for the long haul. Take away durability and build your case on his potential and caliber as a player...


    How many MVP seasons did Kobe have in his first 4 years in the league?

    You think if Shaq stayed in Orlando, Penny's game ascedned, and the Magic got some rings; Penny would never be looked at as an MVP candidate?


    We know his career sucked. We are clear on that.

    What if it wasn't derailed by injury?

    Using fair assessment of his potential, start your argument there.

    the mvp discussion and kobe goes back to vale colorado.

    no doubt since we talking (IF's) IF kobe didn't get accused of ? and lose all those endorsements for that one season.

    he would have won an mvp that season as well. he was robbed, no doubt steve nash put up numbers that season but he should not have one the mvp over kobe that year.

    since we talkin IF's
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    Peace_79 wrote: »
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    penny was a good player but not built for the long haul and he had a little bit of that lebron tentativeness in him as well, he would defer at times even though he was a major threat on the drive and on the perimeter. penny never put up mvp numbers and never was even considered mvp.

    The premise of this thread assumes that Penny WAS built for the long haul. Take away durability and build your case on his potential and caliber as a player...


    How many MVP seasons did Kobe have in his first 4 years in the league?

    You think if Shaq stayed in Orlando, Penny's game ascedned, and the Magic got some rings; Penny would never be looked at as an MVP candidate?


    We know his career sucked. We are clear on that.

    What if it wasn't derailed by injury?

    Using fair assessment of his potential, start your argument there.

    [kobe] would have won an mvp that season as well. he was robbed ...

    since we talkin IF's

    Ok, brotha. I don't doubt that.

    Thing is, that MVP would not change my perception of Kobe. Hands down he is Top 10 All Time and to me and you could make the case for top 5.

    Kobe's greatness doesn't detract from Penny's potential in he mid 90s.
  • SELASI_i
    SELASI_i Members Posts: 2,237 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Peace_79 wrote: »
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    Peace_79 wrote: »
    SELASI_i wrote: »
    penny was a good player but not built for the long haul and he had a little bit of that lebron tentativeness in him as well, he would defer at times even though he was a major threat on the drive and on the perimeter. penny never put up mvp numbers and never was even considered mvp.

    The premise of this thread assumes that Penny WAS built for the long haul. Take away durability and build your case on his potential and caliber as a player...


    How many MVP seasons did Kobe have in his first 4 years in the league?

    You think if Shaq stayed in Orlando, Penny's game ascedned, and the Magic got some rings; Penny would never be looked at as an MVP candidate?


    We know his career sucked. We are clear on that.

    What if it wasn't derailed by injury?

    Using fair assessment of his potential, start your argument there.

    [kobe] would have won an mvp that season as well. he was robbed ...

    since we talkin IF's

    Ok, brotha. I don't doubt that.

    Thing is, that MVP would not change my perception of Kobe. Hands down he is Top 10 All Time and to me and you could make the case for top 5.

    Kobe's greatness doesn't detract from Penny's potential in he mid 90s.

    no doubt penny is one of my all time favs and i think it's a shame what happen to that boy knees
  • S2J
    S2J Members Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Ironically enough, i ran into this old head at the hood bbq spot and he said his son played for that orlando team

    'Man i used to hang with d Scott and Shaq, i used to practically live at D Scott house'

    Lol I aint believe him but he said his son is Lonnie Harell (AND 1 Prime Objective) and he actually did play for Orldando practice squad
  • Peace_79
    Peace_79 Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 8,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Lol. That dude Prime Objective was cold af, b.
  • raisethe3
    raisethe3 Members Posts: 13
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Want honest answer? Shaq and Penny together would probably got at least 1 or 2 rings depending on the talent surrounding them. They had the potential to be really good, but we all know how it ended.
  • luke1733
    luke1733 Members Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭✭
    They may have gotten a ring or two
    Shaq's jealousy came from Brian Hill wanting to run the offense through Penny rather than through him.
    Penny and Shaq eventually didn't get a long after first being friends.
    Shaq went to Lakers and had the same problem with Nick Van Exel and Eddie Jones and eventually Kobe.
    Shaq is the NBA's good guy and great in all respects, but he's not without his faults at starting beefs with shooting guards or anybody that seems to not pass him the ball.
    Can't say I'm against it b/c he was deserving of receiving the ball during an age when nobody wanted to pass the ball inside.
    I also don't blame Shooting Guards b/c it's not their job to be a Point Guard.

    Penny got ? at Shaq leaving without telling him.
    Penny was good and cold alot of times. I have to say his attack every night and every game was not there. He could relax sometimes like a Tracy McGrady. Both players whose game seemed effortless and could do anything they wanted when they wanted, but would not do it with killer instinct every night.
    Overall the probably would have got 2 rings, most likely one in a 7 year stretch.
  • memphis2sacnicc
    memphis2sacnicc Members Posts: 2,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot ppl don't know this but Penny got shot in his leg when he played at Memphis state. Sitting on his porch in north Memphis and some goon ? popped him trying to rob. His NBA career was cut short before it even started.
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A lot ppl don't know this but Penny got shot in his leg when he played at Memphis state. Sitting on his porch in north Memphis and some goon ? popped him trying to rob. His NBA career was cut short before it even started.

    :-j