Malcolm X vs James Baldwin (debate from 1963)

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Comments

  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    Believe me, I'm not trying to throw shade on Malcolm X's legacy.

    But he was a complex man and several people have both stated in interviews and wrote in books that he was a gigalo for money with men and women in his Malcolm Little years before prison...

    You can't call out James Baldwin on this without also calling out Malcolm X on the same thing.

    Why are you spreading these lies???[

    Yeah, I just decided to make this stuff up. C'mon man, there is no benefit to me lying about this...

    I've read almost every biography about Malcolm X and these rumors from his "Detroit Red"/ street hustling days keep coming up.

    You can accept it or not... believe or not...

    I didn't want to believe it either but it is what it is.

    If James Baldwin didn't say he was a homosexual himself and instead it was just a rumor... would you deny that too?

    The only reason I said anything about Malcolm X's sexuality is because a few people in here were so quick to dismiss the lifelong work of James Baldwin based on the fact dude was ? .

    I just like historical accuracy even if it I don't agree with it.

    So in other words you are spreading lies/gossip just like a woman.

    Or I'm paraphrasing part of "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention" which won the 2012 Pulitzer Prize for History by this man:

    alg_manning_marable.jpg

    With all due respect ? him and ? you. I am not impressed by awards especially when they are given for some ? book that contains no concrete evidence and proves nothing.

    so we can't have discussions about historical figures because you get upset when the narrative doesn't fit your agenda?

    JFK was a known philanderer who was tagging every woman in sight and possibly giving up presidential secrets to some of those women during his after sex bedside chats but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good president who did a lot of great things for America

    But, by your rationale, we can't discuss any of that stuff about JFK

    ? outta here...grow up, man... sometimes your heroes did dirt... not everything is a conspiracy

    The difference is that there is real proof JFK was a playboy. There is none that proves Malcolm x ever ? men.

    You are naive as ? if you believe everything written in a book about somebody decades after they die.

    the new testament??!

    Unless it's written by your family or close friends at least then your claims will have some validity
  • IceBergTaylor
    IceBergTaylor Members Posts: 19,167 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    If Malcolm x had ? sex that ? would have been made well known and popularized while he was alive because white america and the government in general hated that ? more than MLK and all the rest

    the government clearly saw MLK Jr. as the bigger threat. When MLK had a communist in his inner circle there were White House meetings about it. J Edgar Hoover never mailed Malcolm X threatening blackmail letters demanding that he ? himself. If anything, a radical militant is the perfect boogeyman for an oppressor class.

    One could argue that when Malcolm came back from the Mecca his "threat level" considerably jumped higher.
  • CapitalB
    CapitalB Members Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    Believe me, I'm not trying to throw shade on Malcolm X's legacy.

    But he was a complex man and several people have both stated in interviews and wrote in books that he was a gigalo for money with men and women in his Malcolm Little years before prison...

    You can't call out James Baldwin on this without also calling out Malcolm X on the same thing.

    Why are you spreading these lies???[

    Yeah, I just decided to make this stuff up. C'mon man, there is no benefit to me lying about this...

    I've read almost every biography about Malcolm X and these rumors from his "Detroit Red"/ street hustling days keep coming up.

    You can accept it or not... believe or not...

    I didn't want to believe it either but it is what it is.

    If James Baldwin didn't say he was a homosexual himself and instead it was just a rumor... would you deny that too?

    The only reason I said anything about Malcolm X's sexuality is because a few people in here were so quick to dismiss the lifelong work of James Baldwin based on the fact dude was ? .

    I just like historical accuracy even if it I don't agree with it.

    So in other words you are spreading lies/gossip just like a woman.

    Or I'm paraphrasing part of "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention" which won the 2012 Pulitzer Prize for History by this man:

    alg_manning_marable.jpg

    With all due respect ? him and ? you. I am not impressed by awards especially when they are given for some ? book that contains no concrete evidence and proves nothing.

    so we can't have discussions about historical figures because you get upset when the narrative doesn't fit your agenda?

    JFK was a known philanderer who was tagging every woman in sight and possibly giving up presidential secrets to some of those women during his after sex bedside chats but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good president who did a lot of great things for America

    But, by your rationale, we can't discuss any of that stuff about JFK

    ? outta here...grow up, man... sometimes your heroes did dirt... not everything is a conspiracy

    The difference is that there is real proof JFK was a playboy. There is none that proves Malcolm x ever ? men.

    You are naive as ? if you believe everything written in a book about somebody decades after they die.

    the new testament??!

    Unless it's written by your family or close friends at least then your claims will have some validity

    are u tryin to say the new testament was written by close friends of jesus?! lol
    u mean to tell me ? had names like Matthew and Mark back in those times in that region!? lol

    yeh okay ? ..

    and it wasnt decades.. it was actually centuries..

    but dont mind me..
    was jus pointin out the hypocrisy in ur post. lol
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    zzombie wrote: »
    Believe me, I'm not trying to throw shade on Malcolm X's legacy.

    But he was a complex man and several people have both stated in interviews and wrote in books that he was a gigalo for money with men and women in his Malcolm Little years before prison...

    You can't call out James Baldwin on this without also calling out Malcolm X on the same thing.

    Why are you spreading these lies???[

    Yeah, I just decided to make this stuff up. C'mon man, there is no benefit to me lying about this...

    I've read almost every biography about Malcolm X and these rumors from his "Detroit Red"/ street hustling days keep coming up.

    You can accept it or not... believe or not...

    I didn't want to believe it either but it is what it is.

    If James Baldwin didn't say he was a homosexual himself and instead it was just a rumor... would you deny that too?

    The only reason I said anything about Malcolm X's sexuality is because a few people in here were so quick to dismiss the lifelong work of James Baldwin based on the fact dude was ? .

    I just like historical accuracy even if it I don't agree with it.

    So in other words you are spreading lies/gossip just like a woman.

    Or I'm paraphrasing part of "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention" which won the 2012 Pulitzer Prize for History by this man:

    alg_manning_marable.jpg

    With all due respect ? him and ? you. I am not impressed by awards especially when they are given for some ? book that contains no concrete evidence and proves nothing.

    so we can't have discussions about historical figures because you get upset when the narrative doesn't fit your agenda?

    JFK was a known philanderer who was tagging every woman in sight and possibly giving up presidential secrets to some of those women during his after sex bedside chats but that doesn't mean he wasn't a good president who did a lot of great things for America

    But, by your rationale, we can't discuss any of that stuff about JFK

    ? outta here...grow up, man... sometimes your heroes did dirt... not everything is a conspiracy

    The difference is that there is real proof JFK was a playboy. There is none that proves Malcolm x ever ? men.

    You are naive as ? if you believe everything written in a book about somebody decades after they die.

    the new testament??!

    Unless it's written by your family or close friends at least then your claims will have some validity

    are u tryin to say the new testament was written by close friends of jesus?! lol
    u mean to tell me ? had names like Matthew and Mark back in those times in that region!? lol

    yeh okay ? ..

    and it wasnt decades.. it was actually centuries..

    but dont mind me..
    was jus pointin out the hypocrisy in ur post. lol

    You are factual incorrect the gospels were not written centuries after Jesus died. The names mark and Matthew are just their given names

    The apostle Peter real name was shimon, Matthew real name was most likely Levi etc etc etc the apostle were given new names.

    Mark was yohanan
  • CapitalB
    CapitalB Members Posts: 24,556 ✭✭✭✭✭
    nah..
    im pretty sure im correct on this.. not about to argue wit u tho.. believe what u believe..











































































    u still a ? ? by the way.
  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    and yeh.. i didnt read no ? ? about Brother Malcolm in his book.. i have heard ? heresay tho..
    Autobiography does have the whole "i know a guy who did this" thing that, if it was an acquaintance telling you the story, you'd say "please, you're talking about yourself."
    jono wrote: »
    Manning Marable and several others have said Malcolm was involved with ? for pay activities...these cannot be substantiated and are irrelevant. Baldwin was openly homosexual and IIRC even had white boyfriends, him being ? is equally irrelevant.
    well, if nothing else, there IS a difference between "did some things for money" and "was homosexual and openly lived as such."
    zzombie wrote: »
    I can just imagine the kind of fuckery people are going to write about Obama decades after he dies.they write fuckery about him now ? will just tun up when he dies
    so you know people talk about Obama supposedly being involved in ? bathhouse shenanigans right now, right?
    Swiffness! wrote: »
    the government clearly saw MLK Jr. as the bigger threat. When MLK had a communist in his inner circle there were White House meetings about it. J Edgar Hoover never mailed Malcolm X threatening blackmail letters demanding that he ? himself. If anything, a radical militant is the perfect boogeyman for an oppressor class.
    on the other hand, Hoover didn't publicize the sex stuff, he had blackmail letters sent. so this does kind of argue against the "if the FBI knew about this, they'd publicize it immediately" thing (IF they knew about it).
  • soul rattler
    soul rattler Members Posts: 18,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Both Malcolm X and James Baldwin are saying some of the realist ? ever spoken in this video and you ? managed to end up debating their sexually instead of appreciating the content.


    The ? is wrong with you ? ?
  • atribecalledgabi
    atribecalledgabi Members, Moderators Posts: 14,063 Regulator
    Both Malcolm X and James Baldwin are saying some of the realist ? ever spoken in this video and you ? managed to end up debating their sexually instead of appreciating the content.


    The ? is wrong with you ? ?

    You know ? can't stay on topic on the ic
  • latrelll
    latrelll Members Posts: 3
    zzombie wrote: »
    Believe me, I'm not trying to throw shade on Malcolm X's legacy.

    But he was a complex man and several people have both stated in interviews and wrote in books that he was a gigalo for money with men and women in his Malcolm Little years before prison...

    You can't call out James Baldwin on this without also calling out Malcolm X on the same thing.

    Why are you spreading these lies???[

    Yeah, I just decided to make this stuff up. C'mon man, there is no benefit to me lying about this...

    I've read almost every biography about Malcolm X and these rumors from his "Detroit Red"/ street hustling days keep coming up.

    You can accept it or not... believe or not...

    I didn't want to believe it either but it is what it is.

    If James Baldwin didn't say he was a homosexual himself and instead it was just a rumor... would you deny that too?

    The only reason I said anything about Malcolm X's sexuality is because a few people in here were so quick to dismiss the lifelong work of James Baldwin based on the fact dude was ? .

    I just like historical accuracy even if it I don't agree with it.

    Historical accuracy? So rumors from two books equals historical accuracy?lol The unsubstantiated gossip about Malcolm being ? is only in two hit job books. One from Manning Marable and the other is Bruce Perry, both of these men had no love for Malcolm btw. Malcolm's nephew Rodnell Collins never mentioned anything about Malcolm being ? in his book.

    The white supremacist and Zionist run media will stop at nothing to try and diminish our black male leaders and men we look up to. They even try to say Nat Turner was ? , its sad.smh

    My thing is, if Malcolm was ? not only would the FBI have outted him, Elijah Muhammad would've made sure he was outted since Malcolm put Elijah's dirt in the streets about sleeping with under aged girls. The NOI would've been jumped on that rumor if it was legit.
  • whoseworldisthis
    whoseworldisthis Members Posts: 1,010 ✭✭✭✭✭
    People are going to believe what they want to believe...

    R. Kelly is a conspiracy...
    Michael Jackson is a conspiracy...
    Bill Cosby is a conspiracy...
    Charlie Sheen is a conspiracy...
    Bill Clinton is a conspiracy...

    People on the IC are acting like I pulled these rumors about Malcolm X out of thin air...



  • janklow
    janklow Members, Moderators Posts: 8,613 Regulator
    latrelll wrote: »
    The white supremacist and Zionist run media will stop at nothing to try and diminish our black male leaders and men we look up to.
    claiming "THE JEWS ARE BEHIND THIS" is basically admitting you believe the stories but don't want to admit it.

    also... i'm not sure the claim is actually "Malcolm was ? ?"

    also... you're really convinced that if these stories were true, the NOI would have known and put it out there... but now let me hear you flip around and declare the NOI would never have harmed Malcolm and the assassination was all the work of Zionists or something.