Lebron on Jordan - "He gets too much credit for his 6 rings"
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Still havent heard a valid argument against:
"Lebron leaves his teams, they cant even make the playoffs"
"Jordan left his teams they still compete in the playoffs"
Does this or does it not mean Jordan had the better teams around him?
Just because you ignore arguments doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Like I said, MJ pushed his teammates to get better. He was brutal on them ? . Pippen himself said the only reason he was a HoF player was because of MJ. Lebron isn't like that. He's too buddy buddy for that. He's content with being the cornerstone of the team and letting everyone else be content with complimenting him. Of course MJ's teams would be better because they were conditioned to be that way. Lebron's teams were built to be dependent on him. Either way, neither team won anything when the star was gone.
Proof that Lebron didn't push his teammates and make his teams better?
Since you know Lebron personally and every little detail that goes on in their lives and practices and everything...
But that's besides the point. You've admitted MJs teams were better. That's all I was looking for. Carry on...
And lol at any star of their caliber NOT being the cornerstone of their teams and everyone else complimenting them. That happens naturally. ? you mean. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Still havent heard a valid argument against:
"Lebron leaves his teams, they cant even make the playoffs"
"Jordan left his teams they still compete in the playoffs"
Does this or does it not mean Jordan had the better teams around him?
Just because you ignore arguments doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Like I said, MJ pushed his teammates to get better. He was brutal on them ? . Pippen himself said the only reason he was a HoF player was because of MJ. Lebron isn't like that. He's too buddy buddy for that. He's content with being the cornerstone of the team and letting everyone else be content with complimenting him. Of course MJ's teams would be better because they were conditioned to be that way. Lebron's teams were built to be dependent on him. Either way, neither team won anything when the star was gone.
Proof that Lebron didn't push his teammates and make his teams better?
Since you know Lebron personally and every little detail that goes on in their lives and practices and everything...
But that's besides the point. You've admitted MJs teams were better. That's all I was looking for. Carry on...
And lol at any star of their caliber NOT being the cornerstone of their teams and everyone else complimenting them. That happens naturally. ? you mean.
Why do ya'll ? even want discussions if you're so biased you're not even going to pay attention to what others are saying. ? be getting emotional like "Nuh uh...you don't even know him." No I don't know him. But I do know MJ was punching ? out over Bball and all his teammates have come out and said that he pushed them to be better at the expense of everything else? Did Lebron do that? Has anyone said that about him? No. The ? was buddy buddy with his teammates. We all saw that ? . He was not like MJ or Kobe when it came to his expectations for his teammates.
There is a difference between simply being the most important person on your team and being the cornerstone. MJ was the most important person on his team, but his teammates could play without him because that's how they were conditioned. The Cavs wasn't built like that. That's why you had cases where Lebron either scored or assisted on a score for like 80 pts. It's not because the rest of his team was just garbage. It's because none of them were built up to be their own players. They were young players whose whole concept of playing in the NBA was to follow Lebron's lead. That's how you can go from being in a championship one year and being complete ? the next year with the loss of one player.
And yeah the Bulls were a better team than the Cavs. Is anyone even arguing that? They were also much more successful, so what does that say about how MJ and Lebron compare? Not a damn thing. So what's the point of this conversation? The fact is, there are times when the Bulls would have faltered and lost if MJ didn't step up, but he always stepped up. You can't say the same about Lebron, and that's what matters when comparing them. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Still havent heard a valid argument against:
"Lebron leaves his teams, they cant even make the playoffs"
"Jordan left his teams they still compete in the playoffs"
Does this or does it not mean Jordan had the better teams around him?
Just because you ignore arguments doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Like I said, MJ pushed his teammates to get better. He was brutal on them ? . Pippen himself said the only reason he was a HoF player was because of MJ. Lebron isn't like that. He's too buddy buddy for that. He's content with being the cornerstone of the team and letting everyone else be content with complimenting him. Of course MJ's teams would be better because they were conditioned to be that way. Lebron's teams were built to be dependent on him. Either way, neither team won anything when the star was gone.
Proof that Lebron didn't push his teammates and make his teams better?
Since you know Lebron personally and every little detail that goes on in their lives and practices and everything...
But that's besides the point. You've admitted MJs teams were better. That's all I was looking for. Carry on...
And lol at any star of their caliber NOT being the cornerstone of their teams and everyone else complimenting them. That happens naturally. ? you mean.
Why do ya'll ? even want discussions if you're so biased you're not even going to pay attention to what others are saying. ? be getting emotional like "Nuh uh...you don't even know him." No I don't know him. But I do know MJ was punching ? out over Bball and all his teammates have come out and said that he pushed them to be better at the expense of everything else? Did Lebron do that? Has anyone said that about him? No. The ? was buddy buddy with his teammates. We all saw that ? . He was not like MJ or Kobe when it came to his expectations for his teammates.
There is a difference between simply being the most important person on your team and being the cornerstone. MJ was the most important person on his team, but his teammates could play without him because that's how they were conditioned. The Cavs wasn't built like that. That's why you had cases where Lebron either scored or assisted on a score for like 80 pts. It's not because the rest of his team was just garbage. It's because none of them were built up to be their own players. They were young players whose whole concept of playing in the NBA was to follow Lebron's lead. That's how you can go from being in a championship one year and being complete ? the next year with the loss of one player.
And yeah the Bulls were a better team than the Cavs. Is anyone even arguing that? They were also much more successful, so what does that say about how MJ and Lebron compare? Not a damn thing. So what's the point of this conversation? The fact is, there are times when the Bulls would have faltered and lost if MJ didn't step up, but he always stepped up. You can't say the same about Lebron, and that's what matters when comparing them.
No, Mike didn't ALWAYS step up. And you talk about being biased and rewriting history.. We acting like Mike always made it to the finals every year and never had bad games EVER? Sheesh...
Like I said, you are agreeing that MJ had a better team. I've had this debate a million times that's the only point I wanted to get confirmation on. You'd be surprised how many people say that was not the case. But it is that point alone that negates many of the points that follow.
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ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
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En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast.. -
BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me? -
En-Fuego22 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me?
i got LeBron bein the better passer
the better defender seeing as he can guard all 5 positions..
rebounding..
"clutch" is marginal but Jordan has that as well as scoring..
? jus led BOTH teams in all major statistical categories in the finals..
we've never seen the likes.. -
So many feelings in here lol
Jordan never won without Pippen and dominated weak comp after the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons fell off
He couldn't ? with Isiah or Bird in the 80s
He was the best player of the 90s which had a lot of wrak teams with players such as Larry Johnson and Penny not having the impact many thought they would
LeBrin dominates a terrible Eastern conference but managed to bring a Ship to Cleveland
He gets a lot of calls in his favor which are tge "Jordan" calls
He lacks that killer instinct to close games but his physical strength makes him a force
He had to join the 3 other players to win and couldn't seal the deal in Cleveland the first time
Both had good teams as you don't make it to the finals that many times without a good team
Both get over hyped as if they do it all alone
Both are great players in history
I will say Bron has the best win outta the two with beating the best regular season team of all time in the Warriors
None of Jordan's opponents were that good -
VulcanRaven wrote: »So many feelings in here lol
Jordan never won without Pippen and dominated weak comp after the Lakers, Celtics and Pistons fell off
He couldn't ? with Isiah or Bird in the 80s
He was the best player of the 90s which had a lot of wrak teams with players such as Larry Johnson and Penny not having the impact many thought they would
LeBrin dominates a terrible Eastern conference but managed to bring a Ship to Cleveland
He gets a lot of calls in his favor which are tge "Jordan" calls
He lacks that killer instinct to close games but his physical strength makes him a force
He had to join the 3 other players to win and couldn't seal the deal in Cleveland the first time
Both had good teams as you don't make it to the finals that many times without a good team
Both get over hyped as if they do it all alone
Both are great players in history
I will say Bron has the best win outta the two with beating the best regular season team of all time in the Warriors
None of Jordan's opponents were that good
Being the best team of all time >>>>>>>>>beating the best regular season -
En-Fuego22 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me?
Lbj does have more game winners In the post season though. -
BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me?
i got LeBron bein the better passer
the better defender seeing as he can guard all 5 positions..
rebounding..
"clutch" is marginal but Jordan has that as well as scoring..
? jus led BOTH teams in all major statistical categories in the finals..
we've never seen the likes..
Lgj is a small forwardso his rebound numbers are going to be better.
That guarding 1 thru 5 argument isn't good because he isn't really effective against some who can rebound and score. He just being a body in the position at that point
Jordan is a better 1 on 1 defenderror and is more effective.
Lbj putting up stats because he's ball dominant just like Westbrook.
For all the stats talk Lbj get and being ball dominant he should be having triple doublea like Westbrook who does it at the pg which is more impressive.
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Some of you ? don't know ? about basketball... ? it's horrible sometimes coming in here
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How hard is it to understand the concept of LeBron having better players and MJ having a better team. This is why one team will fall off when the star leaves and the other team will continue to keep going.
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It's like you ? act as if you've never played before, how many times has a team had all the best players on the court and lost to the other squad that had worst players but knew how to play with each other (pause); some of you mugs need to stop talking basketball go out and play again and find the love...
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Shizlansky wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me?
Lbj does have more game winners In the post season though.
So lbj is more clutch? -
I'm still trying to figure how Miami lost the championship to Dallas in 2011. There was no way that was supposed to happen.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Still havent heard a valid argument against:
"Lebron leaves his teams, they cant even make the playoffs"
"Jordan left his teams they still compete in the playoffs"
Does this or does it not mean Jordan had the better teams around him?
Just because you ignore arguments doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Like I said, MJ pushed his teammates to get better. He was brutal on them ? . Pippen himself said the only reason he was a HoF player was because of MJ. Lebron isn't like that. He's too buddy buddy for that. He's content with being the cornerstone of the team and letting everyone else be content with complimenting him. Of course MJ's teams would be better because they were conditioned to be that way. Lebron's teams were built to be dependent on him. Either way, neither team won anything when the star was gone.
Proof that Lebron didn't push his teammates and make his teams better?
Since you know Lebron personally and every little detail that goes on in their lives and practices and everything...
But that's besides the point. You've admitted MJs teams were better. That's all I was looking for. Carry on...
And lol at any star of their caliber NOT being the cornerstone of their teams and everyone else complimenting them. That happens naturally. ? you mean.
Why do ya'll ? even want discussions if you're so biased you're not even going to pay attention to what others are saying. ? be getting emotional like "Nuh uh...you don't even know him." No I don't know him. But I do know MJ was punching ? out over Bball and all his teammates have come out and said that he pushed them to be better at the expense of everything else? Did Lebron do that? Has anyone said that about him? No. The ? was buddy buddy with his teammates. We all saw that ? . He was not like MJ or Kobe when it came to his expectations for his teammates.
There is a difference between simply being the most important person on your team and being the cornerstone. MJ was the most important person on his team, but his teammates could play without him because that's how they were conditioned. The Cavs wasn't built like that. That's why you had cases where Lebron either scored or assisted on a score for like 80 pts. It's not because the rest of his team was just garbage. It's because none of them were built up to be their own players. They were young players whose whole concept of playing in the NBA was to follow Lebron's lead. That's how you can go from being in a championship one year and being complete ? the next year with the loss of one player.
And yeah the Bulls were a better team than the Cavs. Is anyone even arguing that? They were also much more successful, so what does that say about how MJ and Lebron compare? Not a damn thing. So what's the point of this conversation? The fact is, there are times when the Bulls would have faltered and lost if MJ didn't step up, but he always stepped up. You can't say the same about Lebron, and that's what matters when comparing them.
No, Mike didn't ALWAYS step up. And you talk about being biased and rewriting history.. We acting like Mike always made it to the finals every year and never had bad games EVER? Sheesh...
Like I said, you are agreeing that MJ had a better team. I've had this debate a million times that's the only point I wanted to get confirmation on. You'd be surprised how many people say that was not the case. But it is that point alone that negates many of the points that follow.
Whoever said that? You're doing the same thing Lebron is doing, making a claim that no one makes and then using it to bash MJ. And yes, he always stepped up. MJ never choked away a pivotal game or series. If he did, name it.
And yeah, I agree that MJ had a better team. I myself never understand why people try to use team accomplishments in a comparison between two players. But like I said before, it is fair to say that Lebron lost championships in that there were games where he needed to carry the load and didn't. That never happened with MJ. He never got to the Finals and then withered in a way that caused his team to lose. The closest was like game 3 or 4 in the Portland series where he wasn't all that effective, and they took him out allowing Pippen and others to bring the team back. However, that was really only for part of the third quarter. He came back in the 4th and solidified the win, so even in that case he didn't choke away a victory.
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BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »BOSSExcellence wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »ESPN ? want lbj to be better than Jordan so bad lol
he is "better" then Jordan..
is he "greater" nah..
not yet atleast..
What does he do better than Jordan besides pass?
Post game?
Shot?
Clutch?
Finisher around the rim?
I just don't see it
You tell me?
i got LeBron bein the better passer
the better defender seeing as he can guard all 5 positions..
rebounding..
"clutch" is marginal but Jordan has that as well as scoring..
? jus led BOTH teams in all major statistical categories in the finals..
we've never seen the likes..
See, the leading all teams in every categories could not be done in jordans era because they were not playin small ball all the time so both teams had a 7 foot center and a 6 '10 power forward who both grabbed 10 boards so of course Jordan could not do that ? in his era neither would lebron .But Jordan everage 41 pts for a whole finals series and its still the record I think. And Jordan was just as good as lebron as a passer.the thing is Lebron is the primary ball handler on his team while with the bulls it was pippen.The only year Jordan played as the primary ball handler he averaged 33ppg 8assts 8 rebs -
I'm still trying to figure how Miami lost the championship to Dallas in 2011. There was no way that was supposed to happen.
That is a perfect example of what I was talking about -
That's on fans giving him so much credit for 6 rings. For some stupid reason, some NBA fans thing Jordan did everything to win those rings. Kinda helps when u had one of the top rebounders, defenders, coaches, and a good bench on ur side. Jordan was the main reason why the (Bills) <<<<< bulls won 6 rings, but not the only reason
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I remember jordan choking in the NBA finals like LeBron did in 2011...........oh wait
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Focal Point wrote: »How hard is it to understand the concept of LeBron having better players and MJ having a better team. This is why one team will fall off when the star leaves and the other team will continue to keep going.Focal Point wrote: »It's like you ? act as if you've never played before, how many times has a team had all the best players on the court and lost to the other squad that had worst players but knew how to play with each other (pause); some of you mugs need to stop talking basketball go out and play again and find the love...
Lol. What are you talking about?
Not one person has disputed that MJ had a better team.
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chalmers > paxson
wade > pippen
Bosh > Grant
Birdman = Cartwright
Ray Allen >Bj Armstrong
Battier >Craig Hodges
chalmers < Ron Harper
Bosh > Rodman
Ray allen > Kukoc
Mike Miller > steve kerr
Kyrie > Pippen
Love = Rodman
Love > Grant
Dellavedova> paxon
Jr smith> bj armstrong
tristan Thompson = Grant
Lebron had much better talent around him than Jordan
