Why is the Holocaust the height of historical tragedies (at least in the west)
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Jonas.dini wrote: »Lol at the bitterness.
Let's not pretend that it wasn't a terrible tragedy wrapped in a war of global proportions. IMO we should be raising awareness about other tragedies as opposed to trying to downplay the holocaust. Not saying everyone in this thread is trying to do that.
And I don't know what schools y'all went to but I learned about cambodia, rwanda, and slavery in school too.
lol at this ? ...its like im talking with television pundits
whos pretending that it isnt a terrible tragedy? who's suggested otherwise? WHO tried to downplay the Holocaust. i made it clear and even EMPHASIZED that this isnt some sort of contest.
Granted, my tread title prob wasnt the best choice of words for what i was trying to ask, but the opening post made what i was getting at very clear.
Its ? up that ? that wasnt said or suggested is thrown on peoples heads@My_nameaintearl wrote: »So you want people to stop complaining about the Holocaust, or.... what, exactly?
like this...
wtf is this?
Who said that? -
well, to start, a lot of these events are exceeded by the Holocaust. in strictly numeric terms, it tops the Armenian genocide, Pol ? 's escapades and specifically the ? of Nanking. it only gets topped by things that are longer-running and less verifiable in some ways: the USSR's mass of deaths under Stalin, China's mass of deaths under Mao, and overall Japanese WWII shenanigans, probably.
then we get into:
--the Holocaust happened IN THE WEST (well, and the East if Russia's the East, but still), so MORE PRESS;
--the Holocaust was well-documented by the Germans in question, so while you can argue Japan killed more Chinese people, you're arguing without the benefit of a German writing it all down;
--the Holocaust was more directly intentioned and efficient than any of those other things
--add "the Holocaust card" and/or "white people died" as part of this if you find it necessary
understood.
the event has undeniably remarkable characteristics...Im not here to contest that
my question had more so to do with everything else getting scant to no attention in comparison to the Holocaust. (again, i admit that the tread title wasnt the best, but the post made it clear imo -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »lol at this ? ...its like im talking with television pundits
whos pretending that it isnt a terrible tragedy? who's suggested otherwise? WHO tried to downplay the Holocaust. i made it clear and even EMPHASIZED that this isnt some sort of contest.
Granted, my tread title prob wasnt the best choice of words for what i was trying to ask, but the opening post made what i was getting at very clear.
Its ? up that ? that wasnt said or suggested is thrown on peoples headsJonas.dini wrote: »Not saying everyone in this thread is trying to do that.
Buuuuut...one_manshow wrote: »Like Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was exaggerated to a certain extent. -
buuuuuuut.......
where does the "pretending that it isnt a terrible tragedy" come into play?
and what exactly does he mean by "exaggerated"? lets not place our own context onto his words -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »buuuuuuut.......
where does the "pretending that it isnt a terrible tragedy" come into play?
and what exactly does he mean by "exaggerated"? lets not place our own context onto his words
T/s, my earlier comment wasn't even directed at you, but fact is these threads always descend into "jews control the world" and "holocaust as we understand it is a myth."
It has already been repeatedly insinuated that the Jews are using their vast control over every institution (mwahahahahahahaha) to overplay the holocaust at the expense of other tragedies for propaganda purposes. -
According to Iran the Holocust did not happened the way it's depicted in History books.
http://holocartoons.com/english/step.php
This book tends to denounce the conspicuous lie of the “planed murder of 6 million Jews during the Second World War” allegedly called “Holocaust”. The lie that is so obvious that there is no need for any further explanation. The lie by which the Palestine occupier Zionists have justified their occupying of Palestine and lots of their crimes for years.
However, the faithful Moses followers are our brothers as prophet Moses is our prophet's brother and a great prophet. With us, the Zionists are different from the true followers of Moses and in this book they have been dealt with differently and the book refers to the Zionists, lies whose shameful performances have ruined the real appearance of the true Moses followers.
Holocaust allegedly refers to an enormous disaster in which 6 million Jews out of 5 million and 4 hundred Jewish populations inhabiting Europe passed away tragically. ? bless their souls and their remembrances are always of a good consequence in history.
Please note that from now on the short form “Holo” is used for “Holocaust”. -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »buuuuuuut.......
where does the "pretending that it isnt a terrible tragedy" come into play?
and what exactly does he mean by "exaggerated"? lets not place our own context onto his words
And he gave us the context: "like Ahmadinejad said."
Here's the first of various Ahmadinejad quotes that was widely condemned, as reported by Al Jazeera:
"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above ? , religions and the prophets... If somebody in their country questions ? , nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream"
http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/12/200849154418141136.html
When this first dropped, there were a million blogs arguing it was a mistranslation (I don't speak farsi) or that Ahmadinejad was trying to make a nuanced point about exploitation of the holocaust for political purposes (which is a valid point in general terms, but only explains away half of this quote).
Ahmadinejad reminds me of Dr. Laura in this quote, he's lamenting that he isn't allowed to deny the holocaust without inciting outrage. -
Jonas.dini wrote: »And he gave us the context: "like Ahmadinejad said."
Here's the first of various Ahmadinejad quotes that was widely condemned, as reported by Al Jazeera:
"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above ? , religions and the prophets... If somebody in their country questions ? , nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream"
http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/12/200849154418141136.html
When this first dropped, there were a million blogs arguing it was a mistranslation (I don't speak farsi) or that Ahmadinejad was trying to make a nuanced point about exploitation of the holocaust for political purposes (which is a valid point in general terms, but only explains away half of this quote).
Ahmadinejad reminds me of Dr. Laura in this quote, he's lamenting that he isn't allowed to deny the holocaust without inciting outrage.
A quote without context doesn't mean much in this day and age where people manipulate things said. Can we get the full context of the speech?
This reminds me of the Reverend Wright " ? Damn America" quote and sound bite, 99 percent of the public bought it hook, line, and sinker. -
A quote without context doesn't mean much in this day and age where people manipulate things said. Can we get the full context of the speech?
This reminds me of the Reverend Wright " ? Damn America" quote and sound bite, 99 percent of the public bought it hook, line, and sinker.
Did I not note that there has been debate about the context and translation?
But that is neither here nor there insomuch as I was referring to an earlier post that c/sed Ahmadinejad's perspective that the Holocaust has been exaggerated, a post that appeared to reference this and other eyebrow-raising quotes by Ahmadinejad without regard for the nuanced context. -
Jonas.dini wrote: »And he gave us the context: "like Ahmadinejad said."
Here's the first of various Ahmadinejad quotes that was widely condemned, as reported by Al Jazeera:
"They have created a myth today that they call the massacre of Jews and they consider it a principle above ? , religions and the prophets... If somebody in their country questions ? , nobody says anything, but if somebody denies the myth of the massacre of Jews, the Zionist loudspeakers and the governments in the pay of Zionism will start to scream"
http://english.aljazeera.net/archive/2005/12/200849154418141136.html
When this first dropped, there were a million blogs arguing it was a mistranslation (I don't speak farsi) or that Ahmadinejad was trying to make a nuanced point about exploitation of the holocaust for political purposes (which is a valid point in general terms, but only explains away half of this quote).
Ahmadinejad reminds me of Dr. Laura in this quote, he's lamenting that he isn't allowed to deny the holocaust without inciting outrage.
Oneman said "Like Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was exaggerated to a certain extent. "
that excerpt displays Ahmadinejad referring to the massacre as an outright myth.
Two completely different things. That is still us applying context to someone elses (onemanshow) word's.
Exaggerations and myths arent tantamount -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »Oneman said "Like Ahmadinejad said the Holocaust was exaggerated to a certain extent. "
that excerpt displays Ahmadinejad referring to the massacre as an outright myth.
Two completely different things. That is still us applying context to someone elses (onemanshow) word's.
Exaggerations and myths arent tantamount
Usually when people say "exaggerate" with respect to the holocaust they're really calling into question the 6 million number, which is to imply that the scope of the holocaust as has been documented in mainstream press and scholarship is of mythical proportions. -
Propaganda. People dont feel sorry for Blacks because most Americans are racist. They dont feel sorry for Africans because well...most of them are racist.
They dont feel sorry for whites in the East because Russian had a bit of a history with us and that "? " ? is still in people's minds especially in the media.
Jews are white and the dominant many of the media outlets. Plus the holocaust was only 1945 or so. So its fresh in people's minds. Rwandan holocaust was more recent but....blacks died so who cares right?
Also doesn't help that Eastern Bloc Europeans are viewed as "eurotrash" and ethnically "? ". -
I like watching Ahmadinejad in interviews, he's got Williams looking all confused and lost. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »
I like watching Ahmadinejad in interviews, he's got Williams looking all confused and lost.
Well when you're the spokesman for someone else and you're asked a question that you weren't prepared for then you tend to look that way. -
The way Ahmadinejad uses "if" throughout that interview is hilarious.
Classic Ahmadinejad -
Well when you're the spokesman for someone else and you're asked a question that you weren't prepared for then you tend to look that way.
I know but Ahmadinejad always looks so calm cool and collected and the other person usually looks like he just wiped his ass with their logic. -
what i would ask is "what do we mean by 'scant to no attention' in comparison"I Self Lord & Master wrote: »my question had more so to do with everything else getting scant to no attention in comparison to the Holocaust. (again, i admit that the tread title wasnt the best, but the post made it clear imo -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »I know but Ahmadinejad always looks so calm cool and collected and the other person usually looks like he just wiped his ass with their logic.
LOL.
or twisted logic. -
what i would ask is "what do we mean by 'scant to no attention' in comparison"
its clear what i mean.
What im asking has been made clear over the course of this thread.
Do you not feel there is a questionable discrepancy in the amount of attention the Holocaust has garnered in comparison to other tragedies. Or do you feel this is something im pulling out of my ass?
One's viewpoint of this will be undoubtedly arbitrary to a certain extent, but there should be a common American ground we can stand on when assessing this.
Look at that vid that was posted. That accentuates the point of this thread -
Jonas.dini wrote: »Usually when people say "exaggerate" with respect to the holocaust they're really calling into question the 6 million number, which is to imply that the scope of the holocaust as has been documented in mainstream press and scholarship is of mythical proportions.
you're bullshitting me
What does what people "usually" do have to do with you telling me that two entirely different quotes are saying the same thing
You are still applying your own arbitrary context to someone else's words.. -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »you're bullshitting me
What does what people "usually" do have to do with you telling me that two entirely different quotes are saying the same thing
You are still applying your own arbitrary context to someone else's words..
The context I'm applying isn't entirely arbitrary given that there is a long history of holocaust skepticism that predates even this thread if you can believe it, and "exaggerate" is one of those words you will often hear emanating from that subculture. But sure I'll play ball what else do you suppose "exaggerate" could mean in this case? -
Just look at the numbers. Any time children, religion and death involved it will be huge.
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Jonas.dini wrote: »The context I'm applying isn't entirely arbitrary given that there is a long history of holocaust skepticism that predates even this thread if you can believe it, and "exaggerate" is one of those words you will often hear emanating from that subculture. But sure I'll play ball what else do you suppose "exaggerate" could mean in this case?
thing is, this thread is highlighting how this event is 'exaggerated' in some respects. I just never used that exact word
this thread is an alternative justification for that description
see what im saying?
"exaggerated" doesnt have fit within the parameters your trying to force it within -
I Self Lord & Master wrote: »thing is, this thread is highlighting how this event is 'exaggerated' in some respects. I just never used that exact word
this thread is an alternative justification for that description
see what im saying?
"exaggerated" doesnt have fit within the parameters your trying to force it within
Semantics matter, especially if you're trying to make a nuanced point. I do understand what you're saying, but "exaggerated" is the wrong word to use because it insinuates that the scale of the holocaust has been inflated. Maybe "overemphasized" would be a better fit for this thread. -
lol cannot front...when i was typing that response i was thinking how this is nothing more than some semantics bs lol
eff it!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CBvcozomYE
