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The British and Black Music

Knives AmilliKnives Amilli Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 2011 in R&B & Alternatives
So me and my friend at work were chatting about this years grammys, figuring that Kanye might have a chance at Album of The Year.

Til we realized that Lady Gaga dropped this year. And that Adele is probably going to run the table at the Grammys this year.

Which brought up a whole nother topic of discussion: How is it that the British quite frequently are able to channel the soul and sound of Black music far better that their White American counterparts?

The Stones, The Beatles (not as blatantly "Black" as the Stones, but the influence was there same with the Who), Average White Band, The Bee Gees, Simply Red, Ace; and more modern examples like Adele, Amy Winehouse, Leona Lewis, Joss Stone (friendly mention to the Art of Noise and Paul Hardcastle) all heavily incorporate primarily Black music styles into their work/are just able to channel the "Black" sound. (this also isnt counting the more prog-rock examples like Led Zeppelin, Bowie, Cream and the Yardbirds,).


I can't personally think of too many White American acts that have done the same on par with the sheer number of huge British acts that do. Sure there was Elvis, but he just had the Black "swag" moreso than having the Black sound. Hall and Oates, Eagles....and this is when I start drawing a blank..

Bieber and Timberlake you could count but they're riding by moreso on black production and black song writers than actually having that tinge of soul in their voices/in their instrumentation (and trust, there is a difference). On the modern front, IMO only John Mayer and Jack White (and a few arguables like Incubus, Christina Aguilera) seem to be holding down the American side of White people doing who do Black music pretty well.



SO what gives? What do those tea and crumpet eating niggas understand that White musicians here dont?

Replies

  • ImGettingOldImGettingOld Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    White Americans are just dry and lame as fuck,everything they do is corny
  • BelovedAfeniBelovedAfeni The Pimp Slap App 5150 NationPosts: 8,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    there might be more appreciation overseas than in america...
    but fuck that i got john blaze and niggas is not recognizing.....
    The Wombshifter
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    British artist tend to emulate American culture more plus i think race and cultural norms in the UK are not the same as it is in the states. Over here in America music is still pretty segregated as far as who performs what (blacks = rap/r and b, whites = rock and country). Plus the UK tend to incorporate all different music and have an appreciation for all types of music, especially reggae, soul,etc. They are more open minded when it comes to shit like that.
    banksy-gifs-graffiti.gif
    I believe in L.O.V.E.......Lots Of Vagina Ev[/b]eryday.
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    British people LOVE black music

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  • garvgarv Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    British people LOVE black music

    Not really, British white artists who do black music gets the push ahead of their black counterparts, its why artists like Lyden David Hall Hill St Soulor Omar etc have gone unnoticed in the States.
  • garvgarv Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    So me and my friend at work were chatting about this years grammys, figuring that Kanye might have a chance at Album of The Year.

    Til we realized that Lady Gaga dropped this year. And that Adele is probably going to run the table at the Grammys this year.

    Which brought up a whole nother topic of discussion: How is it that the British quite frequently are able to channel the soul and sound of Black music far better that their White American counterparts?

    The Stones, The Beatles (not as blatantly "Black" as the Stones, but the influence was there same with the Who), Average White Band, The Bee Gees, Simply Red, Ace; and more modern examples like Adele, Amy Winehouse, Leona Lewis, Joss Stone (friendly mention to the Art of Noise and Paul Hardcastle) all heavily incorporate primarily Black music styles into their work/are just able to channel the "Black" sound. (this also isnt counting the more prog-rock examples like Led Zeppelin, Bowie, Cream and the Yardbirds,).


    I can't personally think of too many White American acts that have done the same on par with the sheer number of huge British acts that do. Sure there was Elvis, but he just had the Black "swag" moreso than having the Black sound. Hall and Oates, Eagles....and this is when I start drawing a blank..

    Bieber and Timberlake you could count but they're riding by moreso on black production and black song writers than actually having that tinge of soul in their voices/in their instrumentation (and trust, there is a difference). On the modern front, IMO only John Mayer and Jack White (and a few arguables like Incubus, Christina Aguilera) seem to be holding down the American side of White people doing who do Black music pretty well.



    SO what gives? What do those tea and crumpet eating niggas understand that White musicians here dont?

    Robin Thicke, Jon B, Jojo, Teena Marie, Colour Me Badd, Anastacia, Michael McDonald, Marroon 5 etc etc

    Most of the singers you mentioned in your first post don't really do black music per say, apart from a few songs here and there. Amy Winehouse, Joss Stone, Average White Band, Simply Red are the only ones you see do black music exclusively, and add Jamairquai to that list as well. The fact that some of these artists get a push says more about the climate of British Black music and the black artists who do it.
  • king hassanking hassan south side somewherePosts: 22,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    garv wrote: »
    Not really, British white artists who do black music gets the push ahead of their black counterparts, its why artists like Lyden David Hall Hill St Soulor Omar etc have gone unnoticed in the States.
    Man, I've been hip to Omar since 1995. Dude is nice
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    garv wrote: »
    Not really, British white artists who do black music gets the push ahead of their black counterparts, its why artists like Lyden David Hall Hill St Soulor Omar etc have gone unnoticed in the States.

    British people DO love black music, whether labels push white artists more is another issue

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  • garvgarv Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    British people DO love black music, whether labels push white artists more is another issue

    They don't love Black music anymore than White Americans.
  • garvgarv Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    Man, I've been hip to Omar since 1995. Dude is nice

    Forreal brutha straight talent right there, only people that follow Soul properly will know though dude doesn't even haven't a big following in the UK anymore which is a shame.
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    garv wrote: »
    They don't love Black music anymore than White Americans.

    i'd disagree but whatever

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  • atribecalledgabiatribecalledgabi DragonstonePosts: 14,063 Regulator
    edited October 2011
    incubus has a black sound?

    anywho, i'm not too up on my soul music or my musical foreign relations, but my observation is that there isn't really a big soul music following here. big one for mainstream r&b but even maxwell doesn't get enough shine. i figure across the pond & in europe there's a wider range of what's mainstream. but then again, amy winehouse wasn't that big in england as she was here for a while.....so idk.....
  • Knives AmilliKnives Amilli Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    incubus has a black sound?

    anywho, i'm not too up on my soul music or my musical foreign relations, but my observation is that there isn't really a big soul music following here. big one for mainstream r&b but even maxwell doesn't get enough shine. i figure across the pond & in europe there's a wider range of what's mainstream. but then again, amy winehouse wasn't that big in england as she was here for a while.....so idk.....

    On certain songs, the funk influence is incredibly blatant.

    like this one

    (really at 2:47-3:13)

    But yeah i did say it was kinda arguable
  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    "As a musician, I've always been amused that I'm both British and black; particularly because so many American musicians seem to aspire to be British while so many British musicians...went to such great pains to be black." SLash

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  • StillFaggyAFStillFaggyAF Queer LGBT CommunityPosts: 40,358 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    incubus has a black sound?

    anywho, i'm not too up on my soul music or my musical foreign relations, but my observation is that there isn't really a big soul music following here. big one for mainstream r&b but even maxwell doesn't get enough shine. i figure across the pond & in europe there's a wider range of what's mainstream. but then again, amy winehouse wasn't that big in england as she was here for a while.....so idk.....

    Incubus also had some former players from the ROots i think

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  • atribecalledgabiatribecalledgabi DragonstonePosts: 14,063 Regulator
    edited October 2011
    oh ok yea. i was thinkin in terms of brandon boyd the lead singer.
  • king hassanking hassan south side somewherePosts: 22,737 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    garv wrote: »
    Forreal brutha straight talent right there, only people that follow Soul properly will know though dude doesn't even haven't a big following in the UK anymore which is a shame.
    Man, Omar is mad talented. My homeboy Corey put me on him in 95 with the "For Pleasure" album, I've been bumping him ever since. It's one cut by him though I don't know the title of the song that they play on WKKC here in Chicago, man that shit is a straight banger. But I've never heard him on the radio or elsewhere. But sadly here in America we are force fed what we are supposed to like so we miss out on a lot of dope artists out here
  • JarkozaJarkoza Posts: 2
    edited October 2011
    Today where ever we go, we need to know English because most of the people know their own language and the other is English which they know. I think in all the country people know English with their own language. SO that is why English will become a global language.

    Ñêà÷àòü áåñïëàòíî ìóçûêó
  • garvgarv Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    incubus has a black sound?

    anywho, i'm not too up on my soul music or my musical foreign relations, but my observation is that there isn't really a big soul music following here. big one for mainstream r&b but even maxwell doesn't get enough shine. i figure across the pond & in europe there's a wider range of what's mainstream. but then again, amy winehouse wasn't that big in england as she was here for a while.....so idk.....

    Theres never been anything like The Soulquarians in Britian, most of the artists o/p mentioned while incorporating black influences have never exclusively done black music, even the likes of Adelle are basically in the middle road.
  • -Vincenzo--Vincenzo- Posts: 3,374 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2011
    i agree with most of what you said and i think the racial climate in the us makes it hard for whites to connect to blacks like that, which is reflected in the music.

    but i still find it odd that you included Leona Lewis in that list, she is black so why shouldn't her music sound black?
  • sankarasankara Posts: 33
    edited October 2011
    garv wrote: »
    Not really, British white artists who do black music gets the push ahead of their black counterparts, its why artists like Lyden David Hall Hill St Soulor Omar etc have gone unnoticed in the States.

    THAAAAAAAANK YOU

    Truth dot com. Many black folk in the UK know that if Amy winehouse or Joss stone were black, they would never have gotten the promo they have.

    White artists tend to be marketed under the premise of 'see, they can do this too - just as nice!'. Lynden David Hall n Omar are way better but they'd had to push themselves. Infact the only act i can think of that was relatively well marketed was Soul 2 Soul.
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