The Real Reasons People Believe in ? : Believers' Reasons for Religion, Theism
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Some religious theists think it is appropriate to presume to inform atheists about why they really don't believe in any gods rather than simply listen to atheists in order to learn something. Perhaps atheists should instruct theists why they actually believe in gods. Theists offer all sorts of reasons for why they believe in a ? but the only respectable reason is one which, if proven false, would at the very least cause them to seriously reconsider their belief and perhaps drop it entirely. I've never seen a religious theist do this, perhaps because the reasons below are more true than they would like to admit.
1. Indoctrination into Religion
Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even? The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?
2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry
If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your ? are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see the constant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in ? and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.
3. Peer & Family Pressure
Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.
4. Fear of Death
Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a ? through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.
5. Wishful Thinking
The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a ? which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.
6. Fear of Freedom & Responsibility
One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because ? will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because ? will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because ? has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because ? has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.
7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning
Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their ? and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.
1. Indoctrination into Religion
Is it coincidence that people tend to stay with whatever religion they were raised in, and this religion tends to be whatever religion is dominant in the community/nation where they live? If people were genuinely convinced by the arguments which apologists offered, shouldn't the distribution of religions around the globe be a bit more even? The high and consistent degree of religious concentrations suggests that people believe their religion because that's the one they were indoctrinated into and which is consistently reinforced around them. People acquire a religion before critical thinking skills and that religion is promoted without most people noticing. That's really not a very good reason to believe that a religion is true, is it?
2. Indoctrination into Anti-Atheist Bigotry
If you keep being told that people who don't believe in your ? are evil, immoral, and a threat to the stable social order, then you would never dream of dropping your theistic religion. Who wants to be immoral or simply regarded by the rest of society as immoral? This is very much what atheists face, especially in America, and it's hard not to see the constant indoctrination into anti-atheist bigotry as a reason why people stick to their religions. Children learn in public schools that America is a nation for people who believe in ? and this message is reinforced throughout their lives by preachers, politicians, and community leaders of all sorts.
3. Peer & Family Pressure
Religion can be enormously important to families and communities, creating a tremendous amount of pressure to conform to religious expectations. People who step outside those expectations are not simply choosing a different way of life, but can in fact be perceived as rejecting one of the most important bonds which keep a family or community together. Even if this is never communicated in so many words, people do learn that certain ideas, ideologies, and practices should be treated as vital to communal bonds and should therefore not be questioned. The role of peer pressure and familial pressure in maintaining at least a veneer of religiosity for many people cannot be denied.
4. Fear of Death
Many religious theists try to argue atheists into believing in a ? through the fear of what will happen after dying — either going to hell or simply ceasing to exist. This arguably reveals something very important about the believers themselves: they, too, must fear death as the cessation of existence and believe not because there are any good reasons to think there is an afterlife, but rather out of wishful thinking. People don't want to think that physical death is the end of all experiences, emotions, and thoughts so they insist on believing that somehow their "mind" will continue to exist without any physical brain in an eternity of sustained bliss — or even will be reincarnated in a new form.
5. Wishful Thinking
The wish that physical death isn't the end of life probably isn't the only example of wishful thinking behind religious and theistic belief. There are a number of other ways in which people profess beliefs that appear to be more about what they wish were true than what they can support through good evidence and logic. Many Christians, for example, seem to wish quite strongly that there exists a place of eternal punishment awaiting all those who dare to deny them political and cultural dominion in America. Many conservative believers from many religions seem to wish that there is a ? which wants them to exercise unchecked power over women and minorities.
6. Fear of Freedom & Responsibility
One of the most disturbing aspects of many people's religious beliefs is the manner in which these beliefs make it possible for believers to avoid taking personal responsibility for what's going on. They don't have to be responsible for ensuring that justice is done because ? will provide that. They don't have to be responsible for solving environmental problems because ? will do that. They don't have to be responsible for developing strong moral rules because ? has done that. They don't have to be responsible for developing sound arguments in defense of their positions because ? has done that. Believers deny their own freedom because freedom means responsibility and responsibility means that if we fail, no one will rescue us.
7. Lack of Basic Skills in Logic & Reasoning
Most people don't learn nearly as much about logic, reason, and constructing sound arguments as they should. Even so, the quality of arguments typically offered by believers as justification for their religious and theistic beliefs are remarkable for just how atrocious they are. If only one basic logical fallacy is committed, it can be considered an achievement. Given how important believers claim the existence of their ? and truth of their religion are, you'd think that they would invest a lot of effort into constructing the best possible arguments and finding the best possible evidence. Instead, they invest a lot of effort into constructing circular rationalizations and finding anything that sounds even remotely plausible.
Comments
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Horseshit....
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It's the truth man, you know it.
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The #1 thing I hear for believing is this: then who made all of this? I don't want to go to hell, even if I'm wrong, I have nothing to lose.
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@VIBE ...but are you doing the exact same thing that you accuse the theists of doing? The way I see it...nobody is listening. No one wants to see either side on the issue. Forums like this can be misleading for it makes it seem as if the most intelligible minds are taking the time out to address the issues when they are actually just "venting".
The issue of ? 's Existence is much bigger than our personal take on it. If ? exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that the "religious" are right and the irreligious are wrong. -
Seems about right
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8. Delusion.
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alissowack wrote: »@VIBE ...but are you doing the exact same thing that you accuse the theists of doing? The way I see it...nobody is listening. No one wants to see either side on the issue. Forums like this can be misleading for it makes it seem as if the most intelligible minds are taking the time out to address the issues when they are actually just "venting".
The issue of ? 's Existence is much bigger than our personal take on it. If ? exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that the "religious" are right and the irreligious are wrong.
What am I doing? Because currently I am doing none of these listed. -
You know this thread is pure ether when all bambu can say is "horseshit"
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alissowack wrote: »@VIBE ...but are you doing the exact same thing that you accuse the theists of doing? The way I see it...nobody is listening. No one wants to see either side on the issue. Forums like this can be misleading for it makes it seem as if the most intelligible minds are taking the time out to address the issues when they are actually just "venting".
The issue of ? 's Existence is much bigger than our personal take on it. If ? exist, it doesn't necessarily mean that the "religious" are right and the irreligious are wrong.
What am I doing? Because currently I am doing none of these listed.
Let me just do some word swaps
Some "atheists" think it is appropriate to presume to inform "theists"....rather simply listen to "theists" in order to learn something. I believe there is a bias that is expressed by some atheists that no matter how genuine or informative the religious may be, it's not going to guarantee a respect for the person holding their views. Those "points" only intensify it. It reduces belief to a matter of psychological, environmental mumbo jumbo and not something that they own up to. I know some religious people as well "probe" into the mind of atheists developing biases themselves. -
Who of this forum do these reasons belong to for believers?
Did they not come from you? Must be yours.
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? " (1 Corinthians 2:11)
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solid analysis wrote: »
"For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? " (1 Corinthians 2:11)
Anybody who interacts with the man.
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They belong to almost all believers, just ask around.
What's your reason for belief? Would you be content in knowing that when you die nothing happens? -
@VIBE. Well, what about the "few" who hold to beliefs? What do they have to say? If this is to be fair, you would do more than just question the ones who are "safe" to question.
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
I can play with that question about dying and nothing happening. Sure, you have the religious who say they will die for ? and for whatever means they do it. But, what about the ones who die thinking they have escaped the judgements of the world; to take a life or wrong somebody and chooses death to keep from happening to face the accuser or oppressor? -
Which problem is this?alissowack wrote: »...
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
...
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Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Which problem is this?alissowack wrote: »...
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
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It is the problem of sin. Sure, you may say that ? (of the Bible) must exist first in order to even consider it, but it is to say that sin is what has us the way that we are. -
Where did you get this concept of "sin" from? And what makes you think "? " can solve this "problem"?alissowack wrote: »Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Which problem is this?alissowack wrote: »...
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
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It is the problem of sin. Sure, you may say that ? (of the Bible) must exist first in order to even consider it, but it is to say that sin is what has us the way that we are. -
Maybe he means the problem of evil, only reversed and instead of saying ? doesn't exist because there is evil, he thinks there is a solution to evil and ? is that solution.
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Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Where did you get this concept of "sin" from? And what makes you think "? " can solve this "problem"?alissowack wrote: »Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Which problem is this?alissowack wrote: »...
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
...
It is the problem of sin. Sure, you may say that ? (of the Bible) must exist first in order to even consider it, but it is to say that sin is what has us the way that we are.
From the Bible. Sin is not some moral mishap (though it can be associated with breaking rules). It is a condition that ? sees man as and according to the Bible...is deserving of His Wrath. Along with that comes our inability to have a "holy" discernment between good and evil. It's not that we can't choose what is right or what is wrong. We just think our decisions dictate how others should think; that in our selfishness, we are the final say in what good or evil is and what they should produce.
This issue isn't so much about "miraculously" making people make good choices. It's about making people see, in respect to ? , that their good choices won't take away sin. -
^So religion created a problem that can only be solved by religion? Hmm...
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Craig Robinson wrote: »^So religion created a problem that can only be solved by religion? Hmm...
People created religion last I checked. It didn't create itself. People are the problem. -
There are myriads of other religious texts. Why do you think what the "Bible" says holds any validity?alissowack wrote: »Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Where did you get this concept of "sin" from? And what makes you think "? " can solve this "problem"?alissowack wrote: »Gold_Certificate wrote: »
Which problem is this?alissowack wrote: »...
My reason for belief is that there is a problem that can't be solved by man's efforts and only ? has the answer.
...
It is the problem of sin. Sure, you may say that ? (of the Bible) must exist first in order to even consider it, but it is to say that sin is what has us the way that we are.
From the Bible. Sin is not some moral mishap (though it can be associated with breaking rules). It is a condition that ? sees man as and according to the Bible...is deserving of His Wrath. Along with that comes our inability to have a "holy" discernment between good and evil. It's not that we can't choose what is right or what is wrong. We just think our decisions dictate how others should think; that in our selfishness, we are the final say in what good or evil is and what they should produce.
This issue isn't so much about "miraculously" making people make good choices. It's about making people see, in respect to ? , that their good choices won't take away sin. -
@Gold_Certificate. Just for starters, there are a lot of "parallels" in how man treat each other today. The lying, cheating, stealing, racism, religious hypocrisy...it is virtually all in there despite the so-called primitiveness people associate it with. And it doesn't matter who it is. The "chosen" were not excluded from sin. The so-called Biblical heroes found themselves in compromising situations where they were not the "moral examples". This is the only book that suggest mankind can't do anything to earn any favoritism or blessing...or some heightened sense of self.
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alissowack wrote: »This is the only book that suggest mankind can't do anything to earn any favoritism or blessing...or some heightened sense of self.
Ever read the Dhammapada? -
Wouldn't the underlined have existed in "Biblical" times as well? How would all of this give the "Bible" any validity?alissowack wrote: »@Gold_Certificate. Just for starters, there are a lot of "parallels" in how man treat each other today. The lying, cheating, stealing, racism, religious hypocrisy...it is virtually all in there despite the so-called primitiveness people associate it with. And it doesn't matter who it is. The "chosen" were not excluded from sin. The so-called Biblical heroes found themselves in compromising situations where they were not the "moral examples". This is the only book that suggest mankind can't do anything to earn any favoritism or blessing...or some heightened sense of self. -
@Gold_Certificate. That was what I was suggesting in my post; that the "Biblical Times" stuff is no different from today. The Bible speaks to the issues of this world and man's failed attempt to try to "do what's right".
