Skyfather level tournament
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Shuma Gorathevoljeanyes wrote: »
Based on what is Dormammu above Odin? And how is Shuma waaaaaay above sky father? No diss just explain.evoljeanyes wrote: »
Odin is not above Dormammu.....
lol Shuma is waaaay above Skyfather level Shuma is Chaos
dorm and odin are equal they fought to a stalemate -
OdinFeats though, Dormammu has no feat comparable to Odin outside of that ? with eternity. Odin and dormammu's fight wasn't really a fight. Odin has too many feats...show me there fight? If you're talking about the fight from the store book where they were battling for chaos and order...two universal necessities. ODIN had to stalemate...no questions asked. If Odin had lost or won it would have created universal imbalance. He wasn't projecting the full force of his energy. He needed to stalemate. He did. Odin's power set is crazy. His mysticism trumps Dormammu, he is a much better fighter...Dormmamu schemes better. But he wants none of Odin.
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Marvel vs. Capcom is a video game. Shuma is not more powerful than Dormammu -
DarkRaiden wrote: »evoljeanyes wrote: »I thought shuma was equivalent to agamotto? Not true?
Nah Shuma stalemate the Vishanti (it's theorized). All we know is he fought all three of them, and they couldn't beat him nor banish him from the 616. Though they still lived. So it was a likely stalemate.Agamotto is stronger than Shumaevoljeanyes wrote: »
Based on what is Dormammu above Odin? And how is Shuma waaaaaay above sky father? No diss just explain.evoljeanyes wrote: »
Odin is not above Dormammu.....
lol Shuma is waaaay above Skyfather level Shuma is Chaos
It was stated IIRC that Odin and Dormammu stalemated in a fight once.
Shuma is waaaaaay above Skyfather by conquering many universes, by making the Galactus Engine (and killing Death in the cancerverse) by even CLassic Dr. Strange needed prep and more, still losing, and using Shuma's own energies just to temporarily beat him, and by stalemating the Vishanti, when one of them was stalemating Galactus 1v1 and Galactus stomps sky fathers.
Shuma fighting the Vishanti isn't really saying much since there are no details to their battle, while we have several actual showings for Dormammu. It wasn't just Shuma who created the Galactus Engine. Alot of Shuma's props comes from like one book if i'm not mistaken -
Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree. -
OdinAdam Warlock beat the dog ? out of Mephisto in his realm...he is nothing to Dormammu and Odin types either, G. I think with Shuma you have to tale into consideration that most of his feats were in PIS situations.
Its really hard for me, and I don't know how anyone else could...separate Odin Dormammu agamotto cyttorak and shuma...Odin separated himself by without much effort stalemating Dormammu (because he had to)...he is the only one that has separated himself...Surtur is in that group as well. -
Well you can't separate Shuma based on feats, but you can based on the perception surrounding him. He's generally portrayed in a far more menacing manner than Dormammu. Then there is the whole thing with his mere presence putting the universe at risk. Dormammu is not that powerful.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
What are Shuma's feats other than Strange's hyperbole in that one issue? Satannish is quite likely more powerful as well. Lesser demons are like gnats to Shuma but that goes for Satannish and Dormammu -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
What are Shuma's feats other than Strange's hyperbole in that one issue? Satannish is quite likely more powerful as well. Lesser demons are like gnats to Shuma but that goes for Satannish and Dormammu
Strange specifically named Satannish as one of the demons that were like mice to Shuma. And just because you don't like a statement, doesn't mean it's hyperbole. Strange is someone that has dealt with a variety of demons so he's the best character to compare their power. There was nothing to suggest his statement was hyperbole and not his honest assessment of how Shuma compared to other demons. -
OdinThe Lonious Monk wrote: »Well you can't separate Shuma based on feats, but you can based on the perception surrounding him. He's generally portrayed in a far more menacing manner than Dormammu. Then there is the whole thing with his mere presence putting the universe at risk. Dormammu is not that powerful.
I'm actually inclined to agree with you on Shuma being above Dormammu...but how can we debate it, is really my point. There is nothing that puts him over Dormammu with certainty.
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That's true. It's speculation. I'm just pointing out that what little info we have points to Shuma being more of a threat than Dormammu.
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OdinThe Lonious Monk wrote: »That's true. It's speculation. I'm just pointing out that what little info we have points to Shuma being more of a threat than Dormammu.
I honestly agree bro...its always hard to take statements from characters as fact though...all heroes are prone to hyperbole. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
What are Shuma's feats other than Strange's hyperbole in that one issue? Satannish is quite likely more powerful as well. Lesser demons are like gnats to Shuma but that goes for Satannish and Dormammu
Strange specifically named Satannish as one of the demons that were like mice to Shuma. And just because you don't like a statement, doesn't mean it's hyperbole. Strange is someone that has dealt with a variety of demons so he's the best character to compare their power. There was nothing to suggest his statement was hyperbole and not his honest assessment of how Shuma compared to other demons.
what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin -
Shuma Gorath
dormammu created Satannish he's leagues above themThe Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
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what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported.
unfortunately these are comics and statements such as this requires supporting evidence..for instance, I can say Dormmy fought Eternity twice, there's canon issues showing the fight to back up this claim. Dr. Strange couldn't comprehend what he was witnessing when Eternity and Dormmy fought. The same can't be said for Shuma. I remember when Squirrel Girl was first introduced into Marvel..it was stated that she beat Thanos, which is absurd, but she would now belive she's >> Thanos? -
@theLonious, Shuma has been spoken of highly, especially when trying to associate him with the many angled ones, but i'm not too sure it actually panned out that way in Marvel.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported.
unfortunately these are comics and statements such as this requires supporting evidence..for instance, I can say Dormmy fought Eternity twice, there's canon issues showing the fight to back up this claim. Dr. Strange couldn't comprehend what he was witnessing when Eternity and Dormmy fought. The same can't be said for Shuma. I remember when Squirrel Girl was first introduced into Marvel..it was stated that she beat Thanos, which is absurd, but she would now belive she's >> Thanos?
I disagree with this. I think in comics and fiction in general, you have to take statements like that as fact until they are proven wrong. It's not real life. There doesn't have to be evidence supporting a claim. As I said before, if I writer chooses to develop a character through third party statements, you have to accept those statements as they are presented. You can't just dismiss them because you prefer to believe they are false or exaggerated. -
Shuma GorathThe Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
What are Shuma's feats other than Strange's hyperbole in that one issue? Satannish is quite likely more powerful as well. Lesser demons are like gnats to Shuma but that goes for Satannish and Dormammu
Strange specifically named Satannish as one of the demons that were like mice to Shuma. And just because you don't like a statement, doesn't mean it's hyperbole. Strange is someone that has dealt with a variety of demons so he's the best character to compare their power. There was nothing to suggest his statement was hyperbole and not his honest assessment of how Shuma compared to other demons.
what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
Shuma was able to at least stalemate the Vishanti, 3 Galactus level beings (Agamotto essentially stalemated Galactus and implied he was gonna win but....w/e), he beat Strange after Strange absorbed Nightmare, and Arioch who could be "as powerful as he wished" and when Strange had Shuma's powers, his very presence was said to destroy Galaxies. Take note that this is Classic Strange that lost (until he became Shuma), same Classic Strange that beat the In-Betweener (near Galactus level), was able to become Eternity, drive off Galactus, and impress/beat Living Tribunal.
Also when Sise-neg recreated the Marvel Universes he specifically didn't want to fight Shuma Gorath, fearing he would drain too much of his energy and he would fail at his task. He sneak attacked him and put him to sleep from afar.
He also made the Galactus Engine with the other, weaker Many Angled Ones, the Galactus engine was beating on Celestials and other cosmic abstracts, and he took over many universes (speculations says he beat many Eternities and Galactuses and maybe Infinity Gauntlets to do it).
dormammu created Satannish he's leagues above themThe Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
Not necessarily. Mephisto created Blackheart and yet Blackheart is at least his equal, generally seen as stronger and has usurped him from Hell before. Also Strange and Doom barely escaped Mephisto's realm with prep, while Dormammu has been beaten by far less. Not to mention Mephisto stalemated Galactus, and warped reality (spider-man's marriage), and had Reed Richards shook saying that he couldn't rescue his wife or child even with infinite time and prep. People say this, but it's not necessarily true.The Lonious Monk wrote: »what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported.
unfortunately these are comics and statements such as this requires supporting evidence..for instance, I can say Dormmy fought Eternity twice, there's canon issues showing the fight to back up this claim. Dr. Strange couldn't comprehend what he was witnessing when Eternity and Dormmy fought. The same can't be said for Shuma. I remember when Squirrel Girl was first introduced into Marvel..it was stated that she beat Thanos, which is absurd, but she would now belive she's >> Thanos?
Actually yeah Squirrel Girl is above Thanos. It's her gimmick, she beat him, Ego the living planet, Doom, and I've seen some say Galactus. She's meant to be a joke but powerful due to her being a joke. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported.
unfortunately these are comics and statements such as this requires supporting evidence..for instance, I can say Dormmy fought Eternity twice, there's canon issues showing the fight to back up this claim. Dr. Strange couldn't comprehend what he was witnessing when Eternity and Dormmy fought. The same can't be said for Shuma. I remember when Squirrel Girl was first introduced into Marvel..it was stated that she beat Thanos, which is absurd, but she would now belive she's >> Thanos?
I disagree with this. I think in comics and fiction in general, you have to take statements like that as fact until they are proven wrong. It's not real life. There doesn't have to be evidence supporting a claim. As I said before, if I writer chooses to develop a character through third party statements, you have to accept those statements as they are presented. You can't just dismiss them because you prefer to believe they are false or exaggerated.
unfortunately in comics some statements must be backed up to have legitimacy. For instance, i haven't come across anyone who believes Squirrel Girl is more powerful than Thanos. With Dormmy we actually have several fights showing his status. One of his fights with Eternity was said to have blinked out every star in the universe, however they actually showed them fighting -
DarkRaiden wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
What are Shuma's feats other than Strange's hyperbole in that one issue? Satannish is quite likely more powerful as well. Lesser demons are like gnats to Shuma but that goes for Satannish and Dormammu
Strange specifically named Satannish as one of the demons that were like mice to Shuma. And just because you don't like a statement, doesn't mean it's hyperbole. Strange is someone that has dealt with a variety of demons so he's the best character to compare their power. There was nothing to suggest his statement was hyperbole and not his honest assessment of how Shuma compared to other demons.
what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
Shuma was able to at least stalemate the Vishanti, 3 Galactus level beings (Agamotto essentially stalemated Galactus and implied he was gonna win but....w/e), he beat Strange after Strange absorbed Nightmare, and Arioch who could be "as powerful as he wished" and when Strange had Shuma's powers, his very presence was said to destroy Galaxies. Take note that this is Classic Strange that lost (until he became Shuma), same Classic Strange that beat the In-Betweener (near Galactus level), was able to become Eternity, drive off Galactus, and impress/beat Living Tribunal.
Also when Sise-neg recreated the Marvel Universes he specifically didn't want to fight Shuma Gorath, fearing he would drain too much of his energy and he would fail at his task. He sneak attacked him and put him to sleep from afar.
He also made the Galactus Engine with the other, weaker Many Angled Ones, the Galactus engine was beating on Celestials and other cosmic abstracts, and he took over many universes (speculations says he beat many Eternities and Galactuses and maybe Infinity Gauntlets to do it).
dormammu created Satannish he's leagues above themThe Lonious Monk wrote: »Shuma doesn't have a lot of showings, but that's mostly because he hasn't even been around much. You can't automatically used that to say that Dormammu is more powerful.
Strange said that demons like Mephisto and Satannish are like mice compared to Shuma. Now Dormammu is stronger than them too, but not to that degree.
Not necessarily. Mephisto created Blackheart and yet Blackheart is at least his equal, generally seen as stronger and has usurped him from Hell before. Also Strange and Doom barely escaped Mephisto's realm with prep, while Dormammu has been beaten by far less. Not to mention Mephisto stalemated Galactus, and warped reality (spider-man's marriage), and had Reed Richards shook saying that he couldn't rescue his wife or child even with infinite time and prep. People say this, but it's not necessarily true.The Lonious Monk wrote: »what are Shuma's feats? Unless there's something shown to support Strange's comments, then its hyperbole. It's not a matter of me liking the statement or character because i really don't care. I would not place Shuma above Odin
I understand it's nice to have feats to back statements, but you can't say that statements are exaggerated or false just because there are no in-story feats to back them. These are comic book stories not real life. If Strange has sensed or come in contact with the energies of both and made that declaration, we don't need feats to take him at his word. If the writer chooses that as his particular tool to reveal information, you have to accept the information given. You can't dismiss it because the information wasn't exposed in the way you prefer. There is no reason to believe Strange was exaggerating, and given what happened when only a portion of Shuma's essence was channeled through Strange, I'd say that his assertion was supported.
unfortunately these are comics and statements such as this requires supporting evidence..for instance, I can say Dormmy fought Eternity twice, there's canon issues showing the fight to back up this claim. Dr. Strange couldn't comprehend what he was witnessing when Eternity and Dormmy fought. The same can't be said for Shuma. I remember when Squirrel Girl was first introduced into Marvel..it was stated that she beat Thanos, which is absurd, but she would now belive she's >> Thanos?
Actually yeah Squirrel Girl is above Thanos. It's her gimmick, she beat him, Ego the living planet, Doom, and I've seen some say Galactus. She's meant to be a joke but powerful due to her being a joke.
The Vishanti fight is a nice feat -
Odin@darkraiden yea she is a gimmick...which is code for plot device. But logically in a battle thread you don't argue that squirrel girl beats Thanos.
Also Mephisto is overrated...I can see how he is above teambuster level. He has lost to Thor and Adam Warlock. Thanos doesn't lose to Mephisto.
Eating the realm you control is trying your life. Ego stopped Galactus from eating him. I think Ego is above Mephisto and Ego is low sky father.
Galactus engine wants none of Galactus. People make ? . Doesn't mean they are above this things. Fuy and Jim Jasper's were equal! I think people having realms is a plot device as well which why cyttorak loses major points with me. If you weaken outside your realm you're lame. Odin doesn't weaken outside of Asgard.
Could we be overeating sis-neg? -
unfortunately in comics some statements must be backed up to have legitimacy. For instance, i haven't come across anyone who believes Squirrel Girl is more powerful than Thanos. With Dormmy we actually have several fights showing his status. One of his fights with Eternity was said to have blinked out every star in the universe, however they actually showed them fighting
The difference is that Squirrel Girl is obviously meant to be taken as a joke.
Also, Dormy's was not at his normal power levels when he fought Eternity so that doesn't count. I agree with you that it would be nice to have feats to back up statements, but in the case of characters who aren't used much like Shuma, he's not going to have a bunch of in book feats, so all we can go by is the statements we are given. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »unfortunately in comics some statements must be backed up to have legitimacy. For instance, i haven't come across anyone who believes Squirrel Girl is more powerful than Thanos. With Dormmy we actually have several fights showing his status. One of his fights with Eternity was said to have blinked out every star in the universe, however they actually showed them fighting
The difference is that Squirrel Girl is obviously meant to be taken as a joke.
Also, Dormy's was not at his normal power levels when he fought Eternity so that doesn't count. I agree with you that it would be nice to have feats to back up statements, but in the case of characters who aren't used much like Shuma, he's not going to have a bunch of in book feats, so all we can go by is the statements we are given.
that's the thing..statements are always given in books. Superman said that Thor was the toughest opponent he ever faced, despite being killed by Doomsday. Dormammu fought Eternity twice..once with the aid of his sister and other just his own power..which one are you referring to?
@evil, Mephisto is more powerful than Thanos -
OdinThe Lonious Monk wrote: »unfortunately in comics some statements must be backed up to have legitimacy. For instance, i haven't come across anyone who believes Squirrel Girl is more powerful than Thanos. With Dormmy we actually have several fights showing his status. One of his fights with Eternity was said to have blinked out every star in the universe, however they actually showed them fighting
The difference is that Squirrel Girl is obviously meant to be taken as a joke.
Also, Dormy's was not at his normal power levels when he fought Eternity so that doesn't count. I agree with you that it would be nice to have feats to back up statements, but in the case of characters who aren't used much like Shuma, he's not going to have a bunch of in book feats, so all we can go by is the statements we are given.
that's the thing..statements are always given in books. Superman said that Thor was the toughest opponent he ever faced, despite being killed by Doomsday. Dormammu fought Eternity twice..once with the aid of his sister and other just his own power..which one are you referring to?
@evil, Mephisto is more powerful than Thanos
How exactly...feat for feat is Mephisto over Thanos? Mephisto has been hugely amped by fans. In fact Dr. Fate and Mephisto are the most overrated cats in all comic book forum history.
