Batman vs. Superman is the stupidest idea, ever.
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Knives Amilli
Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
I cant ? wrap my mind around why someone thought this was a good idea.
Its not so much that a movie featuring Batman and Superman is a bad idea. In fact I think THAT'S an awesome idea. In fact I'm positive that "Batman vs. Superman" will really amount to essentially, A "World's Finest" movie ("World's Finest" being the traditional term referring to the Batman/Superman team)...
My problem with it all, is how the titles forces them to market the movie. How the title makes them research the same tired ass "Batman vs. Superman" stories that never made sense (Superman vs. Batman SHOULD NEVER EVER EVEN BE CLOSE), nor never did anything to strengthen the mythos of both characters.
To be frank, Batman vs. Superman as a traditional comic book battle has only ever been written to make Batman look like the ? uber genius Bat-? ......I understand why to an extent; Batman is often written and regarded as the overall "greatest" baseline human in the DC Universe...What greater task is there than a normal guy taking down arguably the most powerful non human being on DC Earth?
But the problem is, Superman has to suffer greatly for it. More times than not, I see Superman as a character get regarded as a joke, and losing to Batman only enhances that perception (nevermind the fact that its supposed to be seen as an impossible task, the whole point is to show how great Batman is).
Not only that, but there's always been this lingering tone in popular culture of "? BATMAN IS SOOOOOO BADASS ? THAT ? ASS SUPERMAN, HE'S BATMAN'S ? " that has persisted since Frank Miller redefined the tone of Batman...Its the same love for "grim and gritty" characters that was the lowpoint of comics for a full decade....A sad sight for myself as the more "traditional superheroes" is why I became a DC fan in the first place (and why I refuse to buy any Nu 52 titles at all).
And finally, it reduces the concept of Superheroes to nothing more than "vs. matchups" which in and of itself, I despise. I dare say that probably 70% of all internet discussion about comic characters are ? vs. matchups, something that is completely at the whim of a writer (SPIDER-MAN HAS CANONICALLY BEAT FIRELORD FOR ? 'S SAKE).
Comic book characters are so much more than that imo. Some of the best stories in comics are great because they use the characters and what they stand for/represent to tell a larger, layered story, not solely (or at least JUST because) on how potent in combat they are.
Having Superman (who is supposed to represent human altruism at its greatest potential) and Batman (who represents the power, tragedy, and ultimately futility of vengeance) be featured in what will be a highly promoted, highly visible project to popular culture as mostly celluloid gladiators is an insult.
Selling what should be a "World's Finest" project as "versus" is a disservice to both characters. What should be an opportunity to highlight the essential themes and contrasts between Batman and Superman now has to take a backseat to fanwanking for Batman (because we all know that's how it will turn out). Its already needlessly cynical, gritty, and is an blatant opportunity at appealing to the bloodlust present in moviegoers, a shame because the success of the Nolan trilogy and Man of Steel shows that people have some interest in seeing the core themes of both characters, not just popcorn scenes.
But hopefully im wrong.
Its not so much that a movie featuring Batman and Superman is a bad idea. In fact I think THAT'S an awesome idea. In fact I'm positive that "Batman vs. Superman" will really amount to essentially, A "World's Finest" movie ("World's Finest" being the traditional term referring to the Batman/Superman team)...
My problem with it all, is how the titles forces them to market the movie. How the title makes them research the same tired ass "Batman vs. Superman" stories that never made sense (Superman vs. Batman SHOULD NEVER EVER EVEN BE CLOSE), nor never did anything to strengthen the mythos of both characters.
To be frank, Batman vs. Superman as a traditional comic book battle has only ever been written to make Batman look like the ? uber genius Bat-? ......I understand why to an extent; Batman is often written and regarded as the overall "greatest" baseline human in the DC Universe...What greater task is there than a normal guy taking down arguably the most powerful non human being on DC Earth?
But the problem is, Superman has to suffer greatly for it. More times than not, I see Superman as a character get regarded as a joke, and losing to Batman only enhances that perception (nevermind the fact that its supposed to be seen as an impossible task, the whole point is to show how great Batman is).
Not only that, but there's always been this lingering tone in popular culture of "? BATMAN IS SOOOOOO BADASS ? THAT ? ASS SUPERMAN, HE'S BATMAN'S ? " that has persisted since Frank Miller redefined the tone of Batman...Its the same love for "grim and gritty" characters that was the lowpoint of comics for a full decade....A sad sight for myself as the more "traditional superheroes" is why I became a DC fan in the first place (and why I refuse to buy any Nu 52 titles at all).
And finally, it reduces the concept of Superheroes to nothing more than "vs. matchups" which in and of itself, I despise. I dare say that probably 70% of all internet discussion about comic characters are ? vs. matchups, something that is completely at the whim of a writer (SPIDER-MAN HAS CANONICALLY BEAT FIRELORD FOR ? 'S SAKE).
Comic book characters are so much more than that imo. Some of the best stories in comics are great because they use the characters and what they stand for/represent to tell a larger, layered story, not solely (or at least JUST because) on how potent in combat they are.
Having Superman (who is supposed to represent human altruism at its greatest potential) and Batman (who represents the power, tragedy, and ultimately futility of vengeance) be featured in what will be a highly promoted, highly visible project to popular culture as mostly celluloid gladiators is an insult.
Selling what should be a "World's Finest" project as "versus" is a disservice to both characters. What should be an opportunity to highlight the essential themes and contrasts between Batman and Superman now has to take a backseat to fanwanking for Batman (because we all know that's how it will turn out). Its already needlessly cynical, gritty, and is an blatant opportunity at appealing to the bloodlust present in moviegoers, a shame because the success of the Nolan trilogy and Man of Steel shows that people have some interest in seeing the core themes of both characters, not just popcorn scenes.
But hopefully im wrong.
Comments
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I really hate how they call it Batman vs Superman. I understand there may be some conflict between them when they meet, but just that title makes it sound like they will be going against eachother for awhile.
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exactly that Batman vs. Superman title never really fit
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Superman styled on Batman, Green Lantern and The Flash at the same time in the first arc of New 52 Justice League. Batman had to literally say "STOP Superman PLEASE.". That's the way it always should be.
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Unfortunately, that's how comics are now. Everyone knows Batman stands absolutely no chance against Superman but as you say, it's just another way for DC to stroke Batman. They stroke Superman by allowing him to be the solution to the majority of every major event in DC. I kind of understand why they title this particular movie the way they did. They're in the same Christopher Nolan universe so Batman would most likely see Superman as a threat before the two hug, have coffee and go save the planet from Braniac or Lex. The tone of comics have changed over the last decade I'd say. Before whenever heroes clashed, it would be epic, a must read. Now it happens in every book with some writers only writing for sales and not quality.
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Batman needs some Green Lantern rings
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Yea, batman with powers is game over.
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Gotta remember one thing: Batman is human at the end of the day. Superman is the alien. Despite my love for the Superman character, he's never overtaking Batman without some alterations to his character. MoS went hard at the common fans when he did what he did, but we're probably entering a phase of unbelievable plots that won't end well because of his code of ethics.
Shame he gets raked over the coals for essentially doing the same ? Batman does with greater ease. -
I think the Batman vs Superman movie was inspired by Frank Miller's the Dark knight return Graphic Novel. Plus in recent years Batman has been portrayed as someone who has a plan for everything. When Grant Morrison wrote the JLA, Batman took out the entire Justice League. And now today in comics it you have Batman vs Superman in the injustice comic book and in Earth 2.
Also Nature proves that little guys can take on the bad guys with a little planning. Ants have been shown to trapped and repelled large Black Bears that threatened their natural habitat.
The OP makes a convincing argument but the Superman vs Batman thing has been going on for many years. -
but on the other hand it probably would seem like a complete mismatch for people who don't read comics.
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Batman is somewhat similar to ironman, if not better so this match is pretty good.
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Matterfact, take someone with the tech and intellect of Stark and combine that with the hand skills of deathstroke and you can take out supes.
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SouthpawSour wrote: »Yea, batman with powers is game over.
It's people on comic forums saying that superman at his strongest would still whoop batman's ass even if he had lantern rings -
Superman won't even whoop green lanterns ass.
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Green Lantern is the GOAT DC character. Batman is my 2nd fave though. then flash.
I hope they make another big Green Lantern movie and do a good job on it. Just get rid of the Hal Jordan character and get Jon Stewart to be the Lantern. Or even Guy Gardner.
Wonder if the CW shows like Arrow and Flash will tie into the movieverse. -
Superman styled on Batman, Green Lantern and The Flash at the same time in the first arc of New 52 Justice League. Batman had to literally say "STOP Superman PLEASE.". That's the way it always should be.
Yea, because the dumb ? attacked them thinking they attacked him earlier because they had a box. Batman was trynna talk to that stupid ? the whole time. Get off this anti-batman kick you on bruh
Batman don't always gotta knuckle up or overpower someone, dude's mind is also his greatest weapon. -
I'm pretty sure batman had a kryptonite powered gun stashed someone, in dire need and was telling him to stop for his safety.
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LOL @ the tears of Batman stans. Nigglet I guarantee you I own more Batman comics than you've ever read. It has nothing to do with being "anti Batman" and everything to do with being logical. A human being can't take on an alien, THE most powerful alien around at that and expect to fairly win. Lex Luthor's intellect >>>> Batman's and even he has a hard time figuring how to get rid of Superman.
Superman being a brute in his earlier days is even more evidence towards the fact that Batman wouldn't be able to touch him. More evidence that Superman just always holds back in their confrontation. That up there is him with lesser resolve than you're used to reading him with and he's destroying ? Green Lantern constructs like it's nothing. Green Lantern constructs >>>>>>>>> batarangs.
You people can't even plausibly explain how Batman could take on Superman without any contigency's. That's kind of the threadstarter's point. It's the dumbest match up in the world only made possible because both characters are the most popular characters in their publishers deck not because it has any real semblance of logic. -
LOL @ the tears of Batman stans. Nigglet I guarantee you I own more Batman comics than you've ever read. It has nothing to do with being "anti Batman" and everything to do with being logical. A human being can't take on an alien, THE most powerful alien around at that and expect to fairly win. Lex Luthor's intellect >>>> Batman's and even he has a hard time figuring how to get rid of Superman.
Superman being a brute in his earlier days is even more evidence towards the fact that Batman wouldn't be able to touch him. More evidence that Superman just always holds back in their confrontation. That up there is him with lesser resolve than you're used to reading him with and he's destroying ? Green Lantern constructs like it's nothing. Green Lantern constructs >>>>>>>>> batarangs.
You people can't even plausibly explain how Batman could take on Superman without any contigency's. That's kind of the threadstarter's point. It's the dumbest match up in the world only made possible because both characters are the most popular characters in their publishers deck not because it has any real semblance of logic.
@bolded- Nope, don't care.
@ Everything else- First off at the core, Batman is contingency plans. Everybody and they mama know that in a straight up one-on-one fight Batman would lose horribly to Superman due to superspeed and super strength. Thing is, like Lex Luthor, Batman doesn't always have to resort to physical tactics, which is why both have been able to get the upperhand on Supes at one point or another in time.
No one coming into this movie honestly is gonna sit there and think that human ass Batman is gonna Mayweather Superman. We all expect him to come through with some crazy ass plan or suit like he did in Dark Knight Returns. Everyone with knowledge recognizes that the ONLY way Batman is beating Superman or damn near anyone of his villains for the most part is with a contingency plan. That's a given. That's what makes him who he is. No need to get all butthurt about it pull the " I've been reading comics longer than you so I know everything" card bro. Batman is that ? dude right now. Get over it. ? hate John Cena(horrible comparison, Batman actually takes a loss from time to time) and still watch wrestling. You'll be iight if Bats gets a dub over superman or saves the world one more time. -
And ? honestly, with his powerset Superman should damn-near be ? mode. That doesn't make for good stories
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ShencotheMC wrote: »And ? honestly, with his powerset Superman should damn-near be ? mode. That doesn't make for good stories
...and yet the greatest Superman stories ever were written when he was portrayed at his strongest. If anything when Superman's power set was dumbed down and marvelized by John Byrne in the 80's it lead to many of the worst stories in the character's 75 year history.
? like powers shouldn't handicap imaginative writers, they should supplement them and challenge them. Which is why Elliot S! Maggin and Alan Moore and Grant Morrison are amongst the greatest Superman writers of the past 40 years because they understood that. They always wrote about a SUPER man not a farm boy. Thankfully New 52 writers understand that too which is why in 2 years we've had the best depiction of Superman in years popping up on the regular.
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ShencotheMC wrote: »LOL @ the tears of Batman stans. Nigglet I guarantee you I own more Batman comics than you've ever read. It has nothing to do with being "anti Batman" and everything to do with being logical. A human being can't take on an alien, THE most powerful alien around at that and expect to fairly win. Lex Luthor's intellect >>>> Batman's and even he has a hard time figuring how to get rid of Superman.
Superman being a brute in his earlier days is even more evidence towards the fact that Batman wouldn't be able to touch him. More evidence that Superman just always holds back in their confrontation. That up there is him with lesser resolve than you're used to reading him with and he's destroying ? Green Lantern constructs like it's nothing. Green Lantern constructs >>>>>>>>> batarangs.
You people can't even plausibly explain how Batman could take on Superman without any contigency's. That's kind of the threadstarter's point. It's the dumbest match up in the world only made possible because both characters are the most popular characters in their publishers deck not because it has any real semblance of logic.
@bolded- Nope, don't care.
@ Everything else- First off at the core, Batman is contingency plans. Everybody and they mama know that in a straight up one-on-one fight Batman would lose horribly to Superman due to superspeed and super strength. Thing is, like Lex Luthor, Batman doesn't always have to resort to physical tactics, which is why both have been able to get the upperhand on Supes at one point or another in time.
No one coming into this movie honestly is gonna sit there and think that human ass Batman is gonna Mayweather Superman. We all expect him to come through with some crazy ass plan or suit like he did in Dark Knight Returns. Everyone with knowledge recognizes that the ONLY way Batman is beating Superman or damn near anyone of his villains for the most part is with a contingency plan. That's a given. That's what makes him who he is. No need to get all butthurt about it pull the " I've been reading comics longer than you so I know everything" card bro. Batman is that ? dude right now. Get over it. ? hate John Cena(horrible comparison, Batman actually takes a loss from time to time) and still watch wrestling. You'll be iight if Bats gets a dub over superman or saves the world one more time.
Yes because I was the one who grasped at straws and brought up some "anti Batman" agenda that doesn't even exist to try to justify people not praising Batman like he was Jesus. Follow your own advice there chief. You're in here caping for Batman like your name was Catwoman. -
Dude everytime Batman's beaten superman it's been with some sort of trickery. Nobody thinks Superman is getting beat by Batman without some gimmick going on. That's Batman's thing though. There's always a plan, a trick, a gimmick, something that'll get his ass out the fire. That's why all that prep-time stuff is so prevalent because if you let Batman get the blueprint to you, it's over from now on. He'll always have something in his back pocket to incapacitate you. He's the ultimate planner basically.
Plus you gotta add in the fact that Batman is willing to take it to places Superman ain't so...*shrugs*. I do agree with the way they'd have to market the movie ? though because it will make it look more evenly matched than it should be, but in terms of comics remember why Batman is the only one Superman trusts to take him out if he ever goes rogue. -
Pretty much the essence of batman
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the only way Batman beats Superman is if he has kryptonite available and even then that's not a guarantee. The only way Bruce last 5 secs with Superman is because Supes allows him to. DC goes out of their way to pub up Bats and that's how you get debates such as these. DC should go ahead and create a story saying that Bruce is actually a meta human and has been all of this time. That's the only way to make sense of his character
