Can Goku & Vegeta take out the whole Marvel universe
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You do realize that Vegeta sacrificing his life wasn't able to destroy the planet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMyl5ETIkNo
Already commented on this, blame that on Toriyama's inconsistencies.If anyone is wondering why large attacks like the Kamehameha don't blow up Earth, and yet that small attack from buu was able to do it, it's most likely because the formation and delivery of the attack were designed differently, example: KHH is more like a wave, buu's blast was a ball of highly concentrated energy.
In simple terms, manga logic.You do realize that SSJ3 Goku easily got one shot by someone who can casually destroy planets?
All this holding back nonsense is pure fiction. Even IF the Z-fighters hold back, do you honestly believe that the villains do too? The only people who can destroy planets are Frieza and Buu, both using the Death Ball or some variant of it. Nothing else.
Yes, the villians do hold back, until they get ? off. Both Cell and vegeta attempted to destroy Earth, but were stopped. Buu tried twice, and succeeded his second time.
(notice cell also said solar system, like I said, Toriyama is inconsistent)
@ bold That has nothing to do with my argument, and if you're actually using that as an argument, you just contradicted yourself in the next paragraph, because of this.
> claimed ssj3 Goku can't destroy a planet because he got one shotted by a planet buster.
> Says someone Goku can one shot is a planet buster, but Goku is not (frieza)
"The only people who can destroy planets are Frieza and Buu, both using the Death Ball or some variant of it. Nothing else. "
Sure, so someone who has a power level that's over 300x greater than Frieza's can't destroy a planet? Okay, I'll just stop here.
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I don't really consider Bills to be apart of the Z-Verse seeing as he made one appearance, in a movie at that. I didn't even plan on bringing up that movie until you started to.
Unless they've shown they can destroy planets, then you don't say they can. It would be like giving everyone instant transmission because Goku can do it. It's like giving everyone the Spirit Bomb because base Goku can do it.
Argue feats, not powerscaling. -
I don't really consider Bills to be apart of the Z-Verse seeing as he made one appearance, in a movie at that. I didn't even plan on bringing up that movie until you started to.
I never brought up the battle of the gods movie, that was someone else.Unless they've shown they can destroy planets, then you don't say they can. It would be like giving everyone instant transmission because Goku can do it. It's like giving everyone the Spirit Bomb because base Goku can do it.
Argue feats, not powerscaling.
Not it's not, we know for a fact instant transmission is a skill Goku learned from an Alien race, and it's not something you just learn out of the blue, it has never been associated with his power level, and there have been no mentions of him teaching it to anyone.
Speed, power, and Ki(Ki is power level) on the other hand, we know for sure that those or associated with Power level, and typically, in ~95% all cases, if someone has a bigger power level than you, it means they are greater at all three.
One of the exceptions being SS 1.5 that Trunks and Vegeta were using when they were fighting agaisnt cell.
A persons ability to form energy blast is directly related to their level of Ki, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if Frieza is capable of forming a Ki blast strong enough to destroy a planet, someone with a higher power level (Ki) than his canform a more powerful Ki blast than him, with a lot more ease. -
Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chance
fam, you dont know whom Im talking about from the Z uni, so how can you even compare? Or claim nobody in the z verse is ? with top tier marvel?
its biasssss, thats right Im calling you out monk, youre a Marvel fanboy lol.
and for the record, Goku became the super saiyan ? (lol) but changed back to regular Goku during the fight and peaked, Vegeta surpassed Goku in the flick. Overal the movie didnt make much sense and isnt worth watching lol
both Goku and Vegeta can destroy planets like its nothing as other posters have stated but for some reason you refuse to believe that ? . Acting like the cell saga never happened and ? .
If it makes you feel good to call me a Marvel fanboy, then do you. It's not true because as I've said, I like DBZ just like I like Marvel. I'm just able to be objective.
You really just don't seem to comprehend the power gap between DBZ characters and top tier Marvel characters. Ya'll keep going on and on about a DBZ character accidentally destroying a few planets. I already told you that Surfer has destroyed a black hole in the past. Let's put that in perspective. Our sun is hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the earth. Black holes can be hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the sun. Are you starting to understand the difference in power here? I don't know what else to say. Surfer is far superior to the Z characters in pretty much every conceivable way other than raw fighting ability.It was actually explained in the manga why buu wasn't going as far as to destroy worlds before his kid buu transformation, there was no benefit in him destroying the world. When he was fat buu, he was focused on having fun, and obeying babidi. After that he was focused on fighting and absorbing z fighters. Kid buu was actually weaker than this version of Buu,(the one who absorbed gohan and co) the reason kid buu was so dangerous was because he gave no ? about destroying the world, unlike the previous buus.
You're talking about why he didn't just go around destroying planets for ? and giggles. I was just pointing out that the bad guys had no reason to hold back. If they accidentally destroyed the world it didn't matter because they could survive space and didn't give a ? about the human race. Yet that never happened. -
I don't really consider Bills to be apart of the Z-Verse seeing as he made one appearance, in a movie at that. I didn't even plan on bringing up that movie until you started to.
I never brought up the battle of the gods movie, that was someone else.Unless they've shown they can destroy planets, then you don't say they can. It would be like giving everyone instant transmission because Goku can do it. It's like giving everyone the Spirit Bomb because base Goku can do it.
Argue feats, not powerscaling.
Not it's not, we know for a fact instant transmission is a skill Goku learned from an Alien race, and it's not something you just learn out of the blue, it has never been associated with his power level, and there have been no mentions of him teaching it to anyone.
Speed, power, and Ki(Ki is power level) on the other hand, we know for sure that those or associated with Power level, and typically, in ~95% all cases, if someone has a bigger power level than you, it means they are greater at all three.
One of the exceptions being SS 1.5 that Trunks and Vegeta were using when they were fighting agaisnt cell.
A persons ability to form energy blast is directly related to their level of Ki, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if Frieza is capable of forming a Ki blast strong enough to destroy a planet, someone with a higher power level (Ki) than his canform a more powerful Ki blast than him, with a lot more ease.
Are you implying that there is no difference between a Death Ball, Kamehameha, and Final Flash?
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »
fam, you dont know whom Im talking about from the Z uni, so how can you even compare? Or claim nobody in the z verse is ? with top tier marvel?
its biasssss, thats right Im calling you out monk, youre a Marvel fanboy lol.
and for the record, Goku became the super saiyan ? (lol) but changed back to regular Goku during the fight and peaked, Vegeta surpassed Goku in the flick. Overal the movie didnt make much sense and isnt worth watching lol
both Goku and Vegeta can destroy planets like its nothing as other posters have stated but for some reason you refuse to believe that ? . Acting like the cell saga never happened and ? .
If it makes you feel good to call me a Marvel fanboy, then do you. It's not true because as I've said, I like DBZ just like I like Marvel. I'm just able to be objective.
You really just don't seem to comprehend the power gap between DBZ characters and top tier Marvel characters. Ya'll keep going on and on about a DBZ character accidentally destroying a few planets. I already told you that Surfer has destroyed a black hole in the past. Let's put that in perspective. Our sun is hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the earth. Black holes can be hundreds of thousands of times more massive than the sun. Are you starting to understand the difference in power here? I don't know what else to say. Surfer is far superior to the Z characters in pretty much every conceivable way other than raw fighting ability.It was actually explained in the manga why buu wasn't going as far as to destroy worlds before his kid buu transformation, there was no benefit in him destroying the world. When he was fat buu, he was focused on having fun, and obeying babidi. After that he was focused on fighting and absorbing z fighters. Kid buu was actually weaker than this version of Buu,(the one who absorbed gohan and co) the reason kid buu was so dangerous was because he gave no ? about destroying the world, unlike the previous buus.
You're talking about why he didn't just go around destroying planets for ? and giggles. I was just pointing out that the bad guys had no reason to hold back. If they accidentally destroyed the world it didn't matter because they could survive space and didn't give a ? about the human race. Yet that never happened.
They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got ? off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.
Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)
Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.
Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.
Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.
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I don't really consider Bills to be apart of the Z-Verse seeing as he made one appearance, in a movie at that. I didn't even plan on bringing up that movie until you started to.
I never brought up the battle of the gods movie, that was someone else.Unless they've shown they can destroy planets, then you don't say they can. It would be like giving everyone instant transmission because Goku can do it. It's like giving everyone the Spirit Bomb because base Goku can do it.
Argue feats, not powerscaling.
Not it's not, we know for a fact instant transmission is a skill Goku learned from an Alien race, and it's not something you just learn out of the blue, it has never been associated with his power level, and there have been no mentions of him teaching it to anyone.
Speed, power, and Ki(Ki is power level) on the other hand, we know for sure that those or associated with Power level, and typically, in ~95% all cases, if someone has a bigger power level than you, it means they are greater at all three.
One of the exceptions being SS 1.5 that Trunks and Vegeta were using when they were fighting agaisnt cell.
A persons ability to form energy blast is directly related to their level of Ki, so it's perfectly reasonable to assume that if Frieza is capable of forming a Ki blast strong enough to destroy a planet, someone with a higher power level (Ki) than his canform a more powerful Ki blast than him, with a lot more ease.
Are you implying that there is no difference between a Death Ball, Kamehameha, and Final Flash?
I don't know, you would have to ask Toriyama that, he never gave much thought into ki techniques, most are pretty generic aside from things like Destructo Disk.
Side note: Cell was going to destroy the Earth with KameHameHa, and Vegeta was going to attempt with Galick gun -
Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chance
They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got ? off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.
Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)
Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.
Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.
Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.
Cell is the perfect example. When he decided he wanted to blow up the Earth, he didn't stop holding back and start fighting without regard to the planet. He initiated an attack specifically meant to blow up the planet. The whole reason he even went in that direction is because he had already been fighting at his full power and could not beat Gohan. So again, we have a DBZ character at his limits fighting with everything he's got and the world is not in peril until he specifically tries to destroy it. And when he tries to destroy it, is it just a casual attack or by letting flow free? No, he has to resort to a suicide attack. If he was so powerful that simply fighting without considering the safety of the planet would be enough to destroy the planet, why would he have to blow himself up to destroy the planet?
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceAs long as y'all agree, 2 ? are not taking on the whole marvel universe, that's ? stupid.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »
They did though, they were holding back out of their own self interest, because they were entertaining themselves, or there was something they had to obtain on Earth, as soon as they got ? off, and weren't having fun anymore, they attempted to blow up the Earth.
Vegeta - Attempted to deal a crippling blow to the Earth after he got that work from Goku. (though obviously at this point there was no way Vegeta would accidentally blow the earth up, he wasn't strong enough)
Androids - Destroying the Earth wouldn't have been a huge plus for them, unless they had some desire to drift in space.
Cell - Attempted to obliterate the Earth after he got that work from Gohan, also stated he gathered more than enough ki to do it. But prior to that he had to absorb the Androids to reach full power, and then wanted to test his powers on the Saiyans, as soon as he found out that wasn't working out, he tried to blow up the Earth.
Buu - the Earth was his playground as Fat Buu, when he got rid of his good side he began adsorbing others for power, and finally when he reverberated back to his original self, he immediately destroyed the Earth.
Cell is the perfect example. When he decided he wanted to blow up the Earth, he didn't stop holding back and start fighting without regard to the planet. He initiated an attack specifically meant to blow up the planet. The whole reason he even went in that direction is because he had already been fighting at his full power and could not beat Gohan. So again, we have a DBZ character at his limits fighting with everything he's got and the world is not in peril until he specifically tries to destroy it. And when he tries to destroy it, is it just a casual attack or by letting flow free? No, he has to resort to a suicide attack. If he was so powerful that simply fighting without considering the safety of the planet would be enough to destroy the planet, why would he have to blow himself up to destroy the planet?
If he used a casual attack, someone would have blocked it, that's why he needed to gather all of that energy, plus the author had to put on a big finale for the end of the saga. Logically, if Cell really wanted to destroy Earth, and ? all of them, he could have just flown away, and did it from outer space, but if he did something like that, there would be no story. Most of Cells actions were all for the sake of moving the plot along, to the point that some of them were not logical.
And Cell blowing himself up isn't really an issue, since all he needs is a cell to regenerate himself, and he had to do an attack that could not be stopped, like Buu's first attack was stopped.
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceDude it's over. When your answer to an in story debate is an out of story response, you've reached your limit. You have no proof that Goku and Vegeta have that level of power. It's as simple as that.
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Ok, now that we got the preliminary match out the way lets get to the main contender. How ? is the Marvel universe is against Madara. Also, I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm talking about Sage of the Six Paths Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), with the third rinnegan eye and 4 limbo shadows, equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu.
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Goku & Vegeta would ? them up badlyI provide this thread as my reason for choosing DBZ Fan Boys as the worst in comics
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceAccompany_Nigg wrote: »Ok, now that we got the preliminary match out the way lets get to the main contender. How ? is the Marvel universe is against Madara. Also, I'm not talking about Edo Tensei Uchiha Madara. I'm talking about Sage of the Six Paths Gedou Rinne Tensei Uchiha Madara with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikodou abilities and being capable of both Amateratsu and Tsukuyomi genjutsu), with the third rinnegan eye and 4 limbo shadows, equipped with his Gunbai, a perfect Susano'o, control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, with Hashirama Senju's DNA implanted in him so he has mokuton kekkei genkai and can perform yin yang release ninjutsu while being an expert in kenjutsu and taijutsu.
Let me stop you there. He's shown none of that. And if you must know.....Iron Man would stomp Madara into the ground without trying. As well as the rest of the Naruto Universe. -
Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceUmmm, you must be smoking ? . There is absolutely no way Ironman beats Madara unless you make the argument that genjutsu doesn't exist in the Marvel universe. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use Tsukuyomi, but he has demonstrated genjutsu strong enough to completely paralyze a Kage. Seriously, if you think Ironman can beat Madara, you haven't been paying attention to Naruto for the past 20 or so chapters.
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceThe Lonious Monk wrote: »Ummm, you must be smoking ? . There is absolutely no way Ironman beats Madara unless you make the argument that genjutsu doesn't exist in the Marvel universe. Madara hasn't shown the ability to use Tsukuyomi, but he has demonstrated genjutsu strong enough to completely paralyze a Kage. Seriously, if you think Ironman can beat Madara, you haven't been paying attention to Naruto for the past 20 or so chapters.
Not only has Madara only used genjutsu once ever in all of his fights, not only has Madara NOT used any sharignan jutsu with his new Rinnegan, not only does A have literally 0 feats to suggest he's resistant to genjutsu, but Iron Man has psychic dampeners and sensors on the suit that Madara doesn't know about and can't trick.
Madara doesn't even do genjutsu all that much in character, not sure why THAT's what you brought up.
And Madara has no answer for Iron Man's nukes and heat attacks and flying speed, nor can he get past his forcefields. -
Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chance1) Let's not act like Madara has been around since the beginning of the series. He's only been around for this last portion of the story, and they've been piling powers and abilities on to him the whole time. So it's completely understandable that we haven't seen him use the genjutsu more than once. That doesn't change the fact that he can and will use it.
2) Madara has spent half his time in the manga inside of Susanoo while he had the other Rinnegan. Him getting a new Rinnegan shouldn't change his ability to do that.
3) A is a Kage. Resisting and breaking genjutsu is one of the basics taught to every ninja in the Narutoverse. He may not have special skill in resisting genjutsu, but what little he has is still a hell of a lot more than Iron Man has.
4) Genjutsu isn't standard Western Comics style mind control. It's a hybrid of illusion casting and physical manipulation of the brain. There is nothing to suggest Iron Man's measures will have any effect let alone nullify the attacks.
5) How do you know what Madara does in character? We've seen him use genjutsu, period. No one is suggesting he's an Itachi level genjutsu user, but he's clearly competent with it and will use it when it's his best option.
6) Madara has attacks that destroyed mountains and leveled wide swaths of land, I think he can get past Iron Man's shields just fine. And Naruto is faster than Iron Man, yet Madara can hit him just fine. And if we're talking about current Madara, he can only be hurt by someone using Senjutsu or sustained high level Taijutsu, neither of which can be performed by Iron Man. -
Goku & Vegeta would ? them up badlyThe Lonious Monk wrote: »1) Let's not act like Madara has been around since the beginning of the series. He's only been around for this last portion of the story, and they've been piling powers and abilities on to him the whole time. So it's completely understandable that we haven't seen him use the genjutsu more than once. That doesn't change the fact that he can and will use it.
2) Madara has spent half his time in the manga inside of Susanoo while he had the other Rinnegan. Him getting a new Rinnegan shouldn't change his ability to do that.
3) A is a Kage. Resisting and breaking genjutsu is one of the basics taught to every ninja in the Narutoverse. He may not have special skill in resisting genjutsu, but what little he has is still a hell of a lot more than Iron Man has.
4) Genjutsu isn't standard Western Comics style mind control. It's a hybrid of illusion casting and physical manipulation of the brain. There is nothing to suggest Iron Man's measures will have any effect let alone nullify the attacks.
5) How do you know what Madara does in character? We've seen him use genjutsu, period. No one is suggesting he's an Itachi level genjutsu user, but he's clearly competent with it and will use it when it's his best option.
6) Madara has attacks that destroyed mountains and leveled wide swaths of land, I think he can get past Iron Man's shields just fine. And Naruto is faster than Iron Man, yet Madara can hit him just fine. And if we're talking about current Madara, he can only be hurt by someone using Senjutsu or sustained high level Taijutsu, neither of which can be performed by Iron Man.
No clue wtf you talking about but will just all that babble about Madara is excactly why DBZ has always been ? wack to me. Ultra corny nerd ? right there.
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceI don't really understand the comparison to DBZ since it doesn't have nearly as much ? going on as Naruto.
And all that "babble" is just terminology from the manga. If you read the manga you know what it is. If you don't, you don't. I fail to see actually understanding what you read is ultra corny nerd ? . ? really thinks a cat running around dressed up like a bat is cool, but ninjas with special powers is nerd ? . Get the ? out of here. lol -
Goku & Vegeta would ? them up badlyThe ? you typed was straight corny nerd ? . Manga/Anime has and will always be wack to me. ? please Get the ? out here that with a character who looks like Asian Twilight Zone Emo ? .
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceAgain, you reppin a dude that runs around dressed like a bat. It's all the same ? , but if it makes you feel better to call one nerd ? and act like the other is cool, go for it.
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Goku & Vegeta would ? them up badlyYou the one who bought appearances, I simply stated the breakdown of the character abilities is corny nerd fan boy ? .
And Since you went the appearance route
One looks like a cross between A boyband Reject meets emo Twilight Character
The other doesnt not.
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Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceSo, explaining a character's abilities is nerd ? ? You know you can do the same ? with Western Comics too. The only difference between what I did up there and going through Superman's laundry list of powers is the foreign names.
Also, you're right to some extent about the overuse of the "girly man" image. I don't really like that aspect of anime either. However, outside of his long hair, how Madara doesn't really even fit that image. He doesn't look much different than how Bruce Wayne is portrayed outside of the suit. He's not one of the characters that is given that feminine look. As for your pics...C'mon Son, you really going to use a stylized image that is nothing at all like Batman's typical appearance just to make a point. If you got to resort to tactics like that, the point you're making is weak to begin with.
At the end of the day, everyone's got their tastes. You don't like anime, it's all good. Just know that comics are nerd ? just like anime. -
Goku & Vegeta would ? them up badlyThe Lonious Monk wrote: »So, explaining a character's abilities is nerd ? ? You know you can do the same ? with Western Comics too. The only difference between what I did up there and going through Superman's laundry list of powers is the foreign names.
Also, you're right to some extent about the overuse of the "girly man" image. I don't really like that aspect of anime either. However, outside of his long hair, how Madara doesn't really even fit that image. He doesn't look much different than how Bruce Wayne is portrayed outside of the suit. He's not one of the characters that is given that feminine look. As for your pics...C'mon Son, you really going to use a stylized image that is nothing at all like Batman's typical appearance just to make a point. If you got to resort to tactics like that, the point you're making is weak to begin with.
At the end of the day, everyone's got their tastes. You don't like anime, it's all good. Just know that comics are nerd ? just like anime.
You can but then Again I dont collect or is into comics like that and I prefer the street level heroes as opposed to higher powered beings. Again you brought up appearances not I, all these boy-band looking chinks all look alike. Animes are poorly drawn (Word to Goku looking like Ash From Pokeman on steroids) and is horribly voice acted.
Batman typical appearance (aside from the ? 60's era) is doper than majority of Anime Characters. -
Goku & Vegeta don't stand a chanceYou keep on saying I brought up appearance. I didn't. I wasn't critiquing Batman's looks like you are with these characters. I was talking about the concept of the character. Madara is a normal looking guy (with absurdly long hair) that wore traditional samurai style armor. Nothing crazy or nerdy about that. Batman is a billionaire playboy that literally puts on a batsuit and runs around at night. It's all about perspective. Based on those descriptions, Batman sounds way nerdier.
Anyway, if you don't like the artistic style, that's fine. Nothing wrong with that. Like I said, I don't particularly care for the overuse of the pretty boy image or making all your protagonists teeny boppers or younger either. It's just not enough to stop it from being entertaining IMO. Although, I would say you're generalizing a little too much. You're really only describing Shonen anime. There is a lot of anime that doesn't fit what you're saying, Berserk for example, is still bonafide anime but it's pretty much the opposite of everything you seem to hate about anime.
