Can Earth survive without religion or belief in ? ?
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And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history in an attempt to prove that it was useless too mankind. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion. -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion.
By the time of Constantine Christianity was accepted because there were other monotheistic deities at the time too. After him people stopped being killed for it then eventually it was a widely practiced religion. Most the empire still believed in what ever ? they wanted, especially the army. To be fair it was only like 50-150 years that Christianity became the religion of the empires. Julian the Apostate also tried to bring back the old gods but by then it was too late.
There were also several barbarian tribes that either accepted Christianity or were in mixed opinions about it during and after the fall of Rome. But yes Rome was a very religious society going back to its founding in the 8th or 7th century BC. Hunter gathers before civilization had religion too, that was the ancient societies way of explaining ? . Humanity has never been without religion, we need a way to explain ? so I doubt we will see the human race without it in even our children's life times.
Also the Roman empire didn't fall because religion. Hell not even the Barbarians caused it, thats a misconception. Only the western empire fell because it was broke, it had more terrible leaders and generals than good ones, and the several plagues and diseases that happened. The east survived till the 15th century when the Turk finally took Constantinople. What we call the Byzantine Empire was just the Eastern half of the Romen empire which was spilt again(for the third or fourth time might I add) by Diocletian then once more either by Constantine or one of his successors. Some german in the 1500s decided to call it Byzantine because it spoke greek more now and because Constantinople was originally Byzantium. But it was still Roman. -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
Lots of truth to this, although I give credit to some Christians and Muslims who made big advancements in science in the middle ages. But religious die hards did hold back a lot of progress in the past, what Galileo went through is a perfect example.
Muslims to this day in many areas in the Middle East don't even want girls to learn, despite the fact that women have made big discoveries in science, like Marie Cury. Non religious nations tend to have less beef with the world and get along better with other nations, unlike the religious ones like Israel and many of its fellow neighbors. And we all know how America acted when it was a religious nation, smh.... -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion.
By the time of Constantine Christianity was accepted because there were other monotheistic deities at the time too. After him people stopped being killed for it then eventually it was a widely practiced religion. Most the empire still believed in what ever ? they wanted, especially the army. To be fair it was only like 50-150 years that Christianity became the religion of the empires. Julian the Apostate also tried to bring back the old gods but by then it was too late.
There were also several barbarian tribes that either accepted Christianity or were in mixed opinions about it during and after the fall of Rome. But yes Rome was a very religious society going back to its founding in the 8th or 7th century BC. Hunter gathers before civilization had religion too, that was the ancient societies way of explaining ? . Humanity has never been without religion, we need a way to explain ? so I doubt we will see the human race without it in even our children's life times.
Also the Roman empire didn't fall because religion. Hell not even the Barbarians caused it, thats a misconception. Only the western empire fell because it was broke, it had more terrible leaders and generals than good ones, and the several plagues and diseases that happened. The east survived till the 15th century when the Turk finally took Constantinople. What we call the Byzantine Empire was just the Eastern half of the Romen empire which was spilt again(for the third or fourth time might I add) by Diocletian then once more either by Constantine or one of his successors. Some german in the 1500s decided to call it Byzantine because it spoke greek more now and because Constantinople was originally Byzantium. But it was still Roman.
when people speak of the roman empire they usually mean the western section but most of what you said was correct and is in accordance with what i wrote. I would give the barbarins more credit for it's destruction tho -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion.
By the time of Constantine Christianity was accepted because there were other monotheistic deities at the time too. After him people stopped being killed for it then eventually it was a widely practiced religion. Most the empire still believed in what ever ? they wanted, especially the army. To be fair it was only like 50-150 years that Christianity became the religion of the empires. Julian the Apostate also tried to bring back the old gods but by then it was too late.
There were also several barbarian tribes that either accepted Christianity or were in mixed opinions about it during and after the fall of Rome. But yes Rome was a very religious society going back to its founding in the 8th or 7th century BC. Hunter gathers before civilization had religion too, that was the ancient societies way of explaining ? . Humanity has never been without religion, we need a way to explain ? so I doubt we will see the human race without it in even our children's life times.
Also the Roman empire didn't fall because religion. Hell not even the Barbarians caused it, thats a misconception. Only the western empire fell because it was broke, it had more terrible leaders and generals than good ones, and the several plagues and diseases that happened. The east survived till the 15th century when the Turk finally took Constantinople. What we call the Byzantine Empire was just the Eastern half of the Romen empire which was spilt again(for the third or fourth time might I add) by Diocletian then once more either by Constantine or one of his successors. Some german in the 1500s decided to call it Byzantine because it spoke greek more now and because Constantinople was originally Byzantium. But it was still Roman.
when people speak of the roman empire they usually mean the western section but most of what you said was correct and is in accordance with what i wrote. I would give the barbarins more credit for it's destruction tho
They were really only the after effects of ain't ? emperors and empty coffers. The western half was on life support for awhile, the barbarians were just the people that pulled the plug. Most even wished to continue the empire, and used many of its institutions that they didn't destroy. I don't remember if it was Alaric or Theodoric that ended up saying ? it and sent the old imperial regalia to the Eastern Empire. I do remember Alaric himself was just trying to get Stilchos position as the duke of the army or something, and after Stilcho died (thanks to his godson emperor assassinating him or something, whose ass was saved several times before by Stilcho) Alaric said ? it sacked Rome for the first in hundreds of years in 410 AD. It would then be sacked I think twice after during late antiquity alone. Also it was said the ones to sack Rome, either the first or second group, just walked through taking the valuables. The city itself was already dying because it was under siege for so damn long.
That all is beside the point and me wishing to discuss history with other people though lol. Back on topic, religion has always been part of human society. Zeus, Amun Ra, Mars, Osiris, Morrigan, Woden (ancient german odin) and more were all believe in before the 1st century AD. I'm no Christian or religious but that ? ain't new. Its been around since our inception. Its fine to think what the future might be like without it, but to say Christianity and Islam was what caused the dark ages and all the evils in the world and that before that everything was happy go lucky just because not many believed in those religions is dumb as ? . Both those religions, hell most modern ones have a lot to answer for, but they aren't the first to have crusades and jihad like events. -
Because those societies were ignorant to science like you.
Nearly every society had human sacrifice too. Guess that means they were on to something also -_- -
Because those societies were ignorant to science like you.
Nearly every society had human sacrifice too. Guess that means they were on to something also -_-
I AM NOT IGNORANT ABOUT SCIENCE AT ALL ONE MY MASTERS IS IN A SCIENCE. -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion.
By the time of Constantine Christianity was accepted because there were other monotheistic deities at the time too. After him people stopped being killed for it then eventually it was a widely practiced religion. Most the empire still believed in what ever ? they wanted, especially the army. To be fair it was only like 50-150 years that Christianity became the religion of the empires. Julian the Apostate also tried to bring back the old gods but by then it was too late.
There were also several barbarian tribes that either accepted Christianity or were in mixed opinions about it during and after the fall of Rome. But yes Rome was a very religious society going back to its founding in the 8th or 7th century BC. Hunter gathers before civilization had religion too, that was the ancient societies way of explaining ? . Humanity has never been without religion, we need a way to explain ? so I doubt we will see the human race without it in even our children's life times.
Also the Roman empire didn't fall because religion. Hell not even the Barbarians caused it, thats a misconception. Only the western empire fell because it was broke, it had more terrible leaders and generals than good ones, and the several plagues and diseases that happened. The east survived till the 15th century when the Turk finally took Constantinople. What we call the Byzantine Empire was just the Eastern half of the Romen empire which was spilt again(for the third or fourth time might I add) by Diocletian then once more either by Constantine or one of his successors. Some german in the 1500s decided to call it Byzantine because it spoke greek more now and because Constantinople was originally Byzantium. But it was still Roman.
when people speak of the roman empire they usually mean the western section but most of what you said was correct and is in accordance with what i wrote. I would give the barbarins more credit for it's destruction tho
They were really only the after effects of ain't ? emperors and empty coffers. The western half was on life support for awhile, the barbarians were just the people that pulled the plug. Most even wished to continue the empire, and used many of its institutions that they didn't destroy. I don't remember if it was Alaric or Theodoric that ended up saying ? it and sent the old imperial regalia to the Eastern Empire. I do remember Alaric himself was just trying to get Stilchos position as the duke of the army or something, and after Stilcho died (thanks to his godson emperor assassinating him or something, whose ass was saved several times before by Stilcho) Alaric said ? it sacked Rome for the first in hundreds of years in 410 AD. It would then be sacked I think twice after during late antiquity alone. Also it was said the ones to sack Rome, either the first or second group, just walked through taking the valuables. The city itself was already dying because it was under siege for so damn long.
That all is beside the point and me wishing to discuss history with other people though lol. Back on topic, religion has always been part of human society. Zeus, Amun Ra, Mars, Osiris, Morrigan, Woden (ancient german odin) and more were all believe in before the 1st century AD. I'm no Christian or religious but that ? ain't new. Its been around since our inception. Its fine to think what the future might be like without it, but to say Christianity and Islam was what caused the dark ages and all the evils in the world and that before that everything was happy go lucky just because not many believed in those religions is dumb as ? . Both those religions, hell most modern ones have a lot to answer for, but they aren't the first to have crusades and jihad like events.
IF THE BARBARIANS are the ones who pulled the plug then they are the ones who destroyed it, roman had ? rulers for centuries on and off but they managed to not get totally destroyed and kept most of there land under their control. Until alaric came through and crush the buildings and that made rome look flabby and sick and set the precedent.
there are some who don't believe that the roman empire really died until after "the age of discovery". The exact date that the roman empire totally collapsed and what caused it is still debated. Many factors caused it from my studing i am of the opinion that the barbarians have the greatest impact in finally destroying western roman. FOR THE BOLDED i agree with you but i was not saying that it was the other guy. -
Who or what is a ? tho? I have no belief at all but ? can mean something different 2 anybody
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And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
that is actually not true it was northern european barbarians that ? european society into a dark age the roman empire accepted christianity for centuries before it fell and even before the rise of christianity roman society was a very religious one.
today for some stupid reason it's cool to hate religion especially christianity so people are engaged in rewriting history. but the truth is that the stop of northern european barbarism was caused by the catholic church and the re-empowerment of europe was also due to religion.
By the time of Constantine Christianity was accepted because there were other monotheistic deities at the time too. After him people stopped being killed for it then eventually it was a widely practiced religion. Most the empire still believed in what ever ? they wanted, especially the army. To be fair it was only like 50-150 years that Christianity became the religion of the empires. Julian the Apostate also tried to bring back the old gods but by then it was too late.
There were also several barbarian tribes that either accepted Christianity or were in mixed opinions about it during and after the fall of Rome. But yes Rome was a very religious society going back to its founding in the 8th or 7th century BC. Hunter gathers before civilization had religion too, that was the ancient societies way of explaining ? . Humanity has never been without religion, we need a way to explain ? so I doubt we will see the human race without it in even our children's life times.
Also the Roman empire didn't fall because religion. Hell not even the Barbarians caused it, thats a misconception. Only the western empire fell because it was broke, it had more terrible leaders and generals than good ones, and the several plagues and diseases that happened. The east survived till the 15th century when the Turk finally took Constantinople. What we call the Byzantine Empire was just the Eastern half of the Romen empire which was spilt again(for the third or fourth time might I add) by Diocletian then once more either by Constantine or one of his successors. Some german in the 1500s decided to call it Byzantine because it spoke greek more now and because Constantinople was originally Byzantium. But it was still Roman.
when people speak of the roman empire they usually mean the western section but most of what you said was correct and is in accordance with what i wrote. I would give the barbarins more credit for it's destruction tho
They were really only the after effects of ain't ? emperors and empty coffers. The western half was on life support for awhile, the barbarians were just the people that pulled the plug. Most even wished to continue the empire, and used many of its institutions that they didn't destroy. I don't remember if it was Alaric or Theodoric that ended up saying ? it and sent the old imperial regalia to the Eastern Empire. I do remember Alaric himself was just trying to get Stilchos position as the duke of the army or something, and after Stilcho died (thanks to his godson emperor assassinating him or something, whose ass was saved several times before by Stilcho) Alaric said ? it sacked Rome for the first in hundreds of years in 410 AD. It would then be sacked I think twice after during late antiquity alone. Also it was said the ones to sack Rome, either the first or second group, just walked through taking the valuables. The city itself was already dying because it was under siege for so damn long.
That all is beside the point and me wishing to discuss history with other people though lol. Back on topic, religion has always been part of human society. Zeus, Amun Ra, Mars, Osiris, Morrigan, Woden (ancient german odin) and more were all believe in before the 1st century AD. I'm no Christian or religious but that ? ain't new. Its been around since our inception. Its fine to think what the future might be like without it, but to say Christianity and Islam was what caused the dark ages and all the evils in the world and that before that everything was happy go lucky just because not many believed in those religions is dumb as ? . Both those religions, hell most modern ones have a lot to answer for, but they aren't the first to have crusades and jihad like events.
IF THE BARBARIANS are the ones who pulled the plug then they are the ones who destroyed it, roman had ? rulers for centuries on and off but they managed to not get totally destroyed and kept most of there land under their control. Until alaric came through and crush the buildings and that made rome look flabby and sick and set the precedent.
there are some who don't believe that the roman empire really died until after "the age of discovery". The exact date that the roman empire totally collapsed and what caused it is still debated. Many factors caused it from my studing i am of the opinion that the barbarians have the greatest impact in finally destroying western roman. FOR THE BOLDED i agree with you but i was not saying that it was the other guy.
Eh your opinion is different than mine. But yeah I will say/agree that after Alaric the next 60-65 was open season for goths, lombards, huns etc.
Also I didn't quote the other dude because i am lazy bastard and didn't feel like scrolling to find his post. -
There is a conscience that speaks to the universe, that mirrors the creation of it. As long as someone or something is there to listen to it and record its message, however mistranslated, there will always be a belief system behind that message. Modern religion is primarily a business card for an empire's spiritual control system anyway.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
Lots of truth to this, although I give credit to some Christians and Muslims who made big advancements in science in the middle ages. But religious die hards did hold back a lot of progress in the past, what Galileo went through is a perfect example.
Muslims to this day in many areas in the Middle East don't even want girls to learn, despite the fact that women have made big discoveries in science, like Marie Cury. Non religious nations tend to have less beef with the world and get along better with other nations, unlike the religious ones like Israel and many of its fellow neighbors. And we all know how America acted when it was a religious nation, smh....
I was actually going to bring up Galileo. Great point. Heliocentrism aka the earth being the center of the universe was a popular belief held by the church in spite of scientific findings. More harmful were the beliefs held by the church that illness was caused by "demons" as opposed microscopic organisms. It also begs the question, why didn't ? put these things in the bible. He could have saved millions of lives.
Notice @zombie didn't dare to argue my point about morality. Morality has improved in-spite of the holy books. Things like slavery, violence to women and non-believers are endorsed. Especially in the bible. By the way, what type of science do you have a degree in? -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
Lots of truth to this, although I give credit to some Christians and Muslims who made big advancements in science in the middle ages. But religious die hards did hold back a lot of progress in the past, what Galileo went through is a perfect example.
Muslims to this day in many areas in the Middle East don't even want girls to learn, despite the fact that women have made big discoveries in science, like Marie Cury. Non religious nations tend to have less beef with the world and get along better with other nations, unlike the religious ones like Israel and many of its fellow neighbors. And we all know how America acted when it was a religious nation, smh....
I was actually going to bring up Galileo. Great point. Heliocentrism aka the earth being the center of the universe was a popular belief held by the church in spite of scientific findings. More harmful were the beliefs held by the church that illness was caused by "demons" as opposed microscopic organisms. It also begs the question, why didn't ? put these things in the bible. He could have saved millions of lives.
Notice @zombie didn't dare to argue my point about morality. Morality has improved in-spite of the holy books. Things like slavery, violence to women and non-believers are endorsed. Especially in the bible. By the way, what type of science do you have a degree in?
Ok so the catholic church was not perfect that still does not make what you said true. yeah they surpressed galileo but they also kept some semblance of a society together and set a chain of events in place that lead western europe to leave the "the dark ages". People die have you ever thought that maybe ? does not want mankind to live forever in our current state of existence, for now We die by design that's what the bible says anyway. Morality being improved ha ha ha lol people are still violent, the continent you are living on had a war about 100 years this only stopped 60 years ago after ww2. You europeans killed so much you exhausted your bloodlust not to mention you have nato that is funded largely by america so we kept order in the western world, rebuilt europe creating a financial stability that gave you europeans the chance to have peace. Not to mention america defeated russia in the cold war.
when has european morality improved lol you stopped pillaging the world because you could not do it anymore not because you dropped religion and somehow say the light. I have an MBA and a masters in Agricultural sciences. -
And_So_It_Burns wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Poorly worded question. The Earth existed billions of years before humans much less religion arrived. I assume you mean society. Of course, humans, even in primitive hunter and gather tribes didn't need a holy book to tell them that killing other people was bad. In fact, religion retards society morally and technologically. Look how scientific advancement halted when religion ruled western society. we call this period of time "the dark ages" Look at non-religious Counties compared to ours like Sweden.
Lots of truth to this, although I give credit to some Christians and Muslims who made big advancements in science in the middle ages. But religious die hards did hold back a lot of progress in the past, what Galileo went through is a perfect example.
Muslims to this day in many areas in the Middle East don't even want girls to learn, despite the fact that women have made big discoveries in science, like Marie Cury. Non religious nations tend to have less beef with the world and get along better with other nations, unlike the religious ones like Israel and many of its fellow neighbors. And we all know how America acted when it was a religious nation, smh....
I was actually going to bring up Galileo. Great point. Heliocentrism aka the earth being the center of the universe was a popular belief held by the church in spite of scientific findings. More harmful were the beliefs held by the church that illness was caused by "demons" as opposed microscopic organisms. It also begs the question, why didn't ? put these things in the bible. He could have saved millions of lives.
Notice @zombie didn't dare to argue my point about morality. Morality has improved in-spite of the holy books. Things like slavery, violence to women and non-believers are endorsed. Especially in the bible. By the way, what type of science do you have a degree in?
Bravo, great post. Couldn't have put it better myself. -
Some of this post is illegible.
Ok so the catholic church was not perfect that still does not make what you said true. yeah they surpressed galileo but they also kept some semblance of a society together and set a chain of events in place that lead western europe to leave the "the dark ages".
Um no what got us out the dark ages my religious friend, was the age of enlightenment. which is when progressed was made in-spite of the church not because of it. "During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason. For them the Middle Ages, or "Age of Faith", was therefore the polar opposite of the Age of Reason"
"Not perfect" is a very mild way of putting the severe treatment by the church to intellectuals. Imagine how many lives could have been saved if not for the ignorance of the church.People die have you ever thought that maybe ? does not want mankind to live forever in our current state of existence, for now We die by design that's what the bible says anyway.
What?Morality being improved ha ha ha lol people are still violent, the continent you are living on had a war about 100 years this only stopped 60 years ago after ww2. You europeans killed so much you exhausted your bloodlust not to mention you have nato that is funded largely by america so we kept order in the western world, rebuilt europe creating a financial stability that gave you europeans the chance to have peace. Not to mention america defeated russia in the cold war.
The bible has been wrong for thousands of years about a number of topics. Morality is one of them. Notice how the 10 commandments doesn't mention anything about ? because Moses and his tribe "took the virgins for themselves" the next chapter. The bible blatantly endorses slavery. In all modernized countries, we've evolved morally to know it's bad to own people as property. I could list countless other examples
Yes, violence is still here. Partially because of your religion but compare the amount of wars in the US and Europe to the years of Jewish tribes in the bible.when has european morality improved lol you stopped pillaging the world because you could not do it anymore not because you dropped religion and somehow say the light. I have an MBA and a masters in Agricultural sciences.
Compare amount of homicide per capita from any religious nation to any significantly atheist nation. Why does religion increase the amount of violence in these countries?
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And_So_It_Burns wrote: »Some of this post is illegible.
Ok so the catholic church was not perfect that still does not make what you said true. yeah they surpressed galileo but they also kept some semblance of a society together and set a chain of events in place that lead western europe to leave the "the dark ages".
Um no what got us out the dark ages my religious friend, was the age of enlightenment. which is when progressed was made in-spite of the church not because of it. "During the 17th and 18th centuries, in the Age of Enlightenment, many critical thinkers saw religion as antithetical to reason. For them the Middle Ages, or "Age of Faith", was therefore the polar opposite of the Age of Reason"
"Not perfect" is a very mild way of putting the severe treatment by the church to intellectuals. Imagine how many lives could have been saved if not for the ignorance of the church.People die have you ever thought that maybe ? does not want mankind to live forever in our current state of existence, for now We die by design that's what the bible says anyway.
What?Morality being improved ha ha ha lol people are still violent, the continent you are living on had a war about 100 years this only stopped 60 years ago after ww2. You europeans killed so much you exhausted your bloodlust not to mention you have nato that is funded largely by america so we kept order in the western world, rebuilt europe creating a financial stability that gave you europeans the chance to have peace. Not to mention america defeated russia in the cold war.
The bible has been wrong for thousands of years about a number of topics. Morality is one of them. Notice how the 10 commandments doesn't mention anything about ? because Moses and his tribe "took the virgins for themselves" the next chapter. The bible blatantly endorses slavery. In all modernized countries, we've evolved morally to know it's bad to own people as property. I could list countless other examples
Yes, violence is still here. Partially because of your religion but compare the amount of wars in the US and Europe to the years of Jewish tribes in the bible.when has european morality improved lol you stopped pillaging the world because you could not do it anymore not because you dropped religion and somehow say the light. I have an MBA and a masters in Agricultural sciences.
Compare amount of homicide per capita from any religious nation to any significantly atheist nation. Why does religion increase the amount of violence in these countries?
lOl europe did not go from the dark ages to the enlightenment,i don't know where you went to school but they missed teaching you about "the middle ages", renaissance and "age of discovery" all eras in which organized religion was very very important. It was these eras that in the long run would lead europe into taking control of the world, without religion without the catholic church you don't have a reemergent europe and funny enough you don't have an "enlightenment". Before the enlightenment europe was already on the march to world conquest. lack of religion did not help to do that, it was the stability and order created by the catholic church that is directly responsible for THE RISE OF EUROPE.There would have been no "intellectuals" if not for the church in the first place. to learn how to read rulers had to go to the ? church from hospitals to schools every ? thing was in church. Galileo himself went to a university that was founded by the church. I am glad that i know more european history than you do but I CAN'T tell if you are lying or ignorant of history.
the morality of the bible being wrong or not is a matter or perspective what is not a matter or perspective is the historical fact that the church preserved much of the knowledge that was lost after the fall of rome and prevented the whole continent from falling to islam.
The various laws moses gave to the israelites were for them and not for outsiders, plus ? wanted the destruction of certain cannanite peoples. Therefore ? , destruction and slavery were visited upon them. In any case Christanity is not ancient judaism SO keep your straw man argument. THE WARS OF EUROPE HAVE BEEN FAR WORSE THAN ANY BATTLE DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE AND LASTED LONGER AND WERE MORE DESTRUCTIVE and i am not just talking about modern times either.
the high murder rate in most first world nations is not caused by religion it's caused by the drug trade . if sweden bordered mexico the murder rate would still be the same in mexico as it is now. All that murder in south america has little next to nothing to do with religion. Europeans, especially northern europeans have deluded yourselves into thinking that your nations are so peaceful because you have reduced the importance of religion in society buts that's ? .
The peace you enjoy was founded on american power and is a result of recent history less than 100 years ago europeans were slaughtering people. -
Look i understand the perspective of atheist but the twisting of history to fit their narrative is disgusting especially coming from a european. The european has a ? ? smelly primitive savage before the catholic church extended it's power into all of western europe. It's not the fault of religion that the dark ages happened but it was religion that helped your white ass get out of it and that is heavy documented FACT so anyone saying otherwise iS lying
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The Roman Church was center of stability for Europe but it was the moors who also helped brought Europe out of the dark ages.
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Oya_Husband wrote: »The Roman Church was center of stability for Europe but it was the moors who also helped brought Europe out of the dark ages.
That's not quite true either it's not like the moors said "here look take this technology and rebuild europe" it was not their intent to teach europeans a ? thing, WELL maybe hygiene was the exception
The europeans learned certain things from the moors and muslim world through the necessity of war and conquest. When europeans lost or won a war against the moors they copied the technology they came into contact with OR when conquered by the moors they benefited from the superior society of the moors but that really was only for spain most of europe did not know a ? thing nor did they have much until the church introduced it to them. -
Lol that's a very bold statement. . Intellectuals flourish in societies that have a clear separationbetween church and state because religion advocates pseudoscience like "Creationism" to be taught in public education systems. This retards society.it was the stability and order created by the catholic church that is directly responsible for THE RISE OF EUROPE.There would have been no "intellectuals"if not for the church in the first place. to learn how to read rulers had to go to the ? church from hospitals
The church can do good things at times. Sometimes in-spite of their teachings, I'm not arguing that I'm arguing that religion retards scientific breakthroughs and morality and humans would probably do better without it.
This is a moot point. How is this special of religion? Any organization with funding could have done this. Religion didn't lead to any life changing science and even out-casted Galileo The church challenges any beliefs that contradict their 2000 year old desert book.to schools every ? thing was in church. Galileo himself went to a university that was founded by the church.
Lol, ? and baby killing are wrong in every sane society. Unless your a psychopath, it's objectively wrong.the morality of the bible being wrong or not is a matter or perspective
Well actually the Muslims too but I see your point. I just don't understand why religion was specifically needed to this as anyone who cherishes science could have done this.is the historical fact that the church preserved much of the knowledge that was lost after the fall of rome and prevented the whole continent from falling to islam.
Lol so in this case ? and child murder was acceptable. Religion makes people accept things they would normally say are disgusting. Why would an all loving ? do this?The various laws moses gave to the israelites were for them and not for outsiders, plus ? wanted the destruction of certain cannanite peoples. Therefore ? , destruction and slavery were visited upon them.
The ? of the new testament is the same ? as the old testament correct?In any case Christanity is not ancient judaism SO keep your straw man argument.THE WARS OF EUROPE HAVE BEEN FAR WORSE THAN ANY BATTLE DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE AND LASTED LONGER AND WERE MORE DESTRUCTIVE and i am not just talking about modern times either.
How many of them can be traced back to religion? I can think of a few. We all know antisemitism, inspired by religion caused the holocaust. We won't even bring up the crusades.the high murder rate in most first world nations is not caused by religion it's caused by the drug trade . if sweden bordered mexico the murder rate would still be the same in mexico as it is now. All that murder in south america has little next to nothing to do with religion. Europeans, especially northern europeans have deluded yourselves into thinking that your nations are so peaceful because you have reduced the importance of religion in society buts that's ? .
My point is if ? is real and the bible is true and religious people are more moral then why is it more crime in these places? Why does the drug exist to begin with if religion is the polar of societal morality?
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And_So_It_Burns wrote: »
Lol that's a very bold statement. . Intellectuals flourish in societies that have a clear separationbetween church and state because religion advocates pseudoscience like "Creationism" to be taught in public education systems. This retards society.it was the stability and order created by the catholic church that is directly responsible for THE RISE OF EUROPE.There would have been no "intellectuals"if not for the church in the first place. to learn how to read rulers had to go to the ? church from hospitals
The church can do good things at times. Sometimes in-spite of their teachings, I'm not arguing that I'm arguing that religion retards scientific breakthroughs and morality and humans would probably do better without it.
This is a moot point. How is this special of religion? Any organization with funding could have done this. Religion didn't lead to any life changing science and even out-casted Galileo The church challenges any beliefs that contradict their 2000 year old desert book.to schools every ? thing was in church. Galileo himself went to a university that was founded by the church.
Lol, ? and baby killing are wrong in every sane society. Unless your a psychopath, it's objectively wrong.the morality of the bible being wrong or not is a matter or perspective
Well actually the Muslims too but I see your point. I just don't understand why religion was specifically needed to this as anyone who cherishes science could have done this.is the historical fact that the church preserved much of the knowledge that was lost after the fall of rome and prevented the whole continent from falling to islam.
Lol so in this case ? and child murder was acceptable. Religion makes people accept things they would normally say are disgusting. Why would an all loving ? do this?The various laws moses gave to the israelites were for them and not for outsiders, plus ? wanted the destruction of certain cannanite peoples. Therefore ? , destruction and slavery were visited upon them.
The ? of the new testament is the same ? as the old testament correct?In any case Christanity is not ancient judaism SO keep your straw man argument.THE WARS OF EUROPE HAVE BEEN FAR WORSE THAN ANY BATTLE DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE AND LASTED LONGER AND WERE MORE DESTRUCTIVE and i am not just talking about modern times either.
How many of them can be traced back to religion? I can think of a few. We all know antisemitism, inspired by religion caused the holocaust. We won't even bring up the crusades.the high murder rate in most first world nations is not caused by religion it's caused by the drug trade . if sweden bordered mexico the murder rate would still be the same in mexico as it is now. All that murder in south america has little next to nothing to do with religion. Europeans, especially northern europeans have deluded yourselves into thinking that your nations are so peaceful because you have reduced the importance of religion in society buts that's ? .
My point is if ? is real and the bible is true and religious people are more moral then why is it more crime in these places? Why does the drug exist to begin with if religion is the polar of societal morality?
Who said being religious makes you more moral?? not me , you can be very religious and be very evil because just because you believe the religion is true that does not mean that you actually live it in your heart OR that you are going to live the way you know you should. people who believe in ? can be just as influenced by the things of this world just like anybody.
The crusades were caused by the religion of islam, they were a reaction to muslim conquest of previously christian lands. There have been few purely religious wars in human history. Most of the wars are caused by the elite of any society wanting more power or resources. The holocaust was not just a jewish slaughter, it was not based on religion it was mostly based one RACE. THE NAZIS killed christian jews to them "jew" was also a race not just a religion it just so happened that this enemy race also practiced a certain religion.
The ? of the old is the ? of the new but his orders changed, there are deep theological reasons why ? allowed certain things to go down in the o.t. I can explain it to you but we would need a whole new thread. just understand that ? of the bible sees human life differently than we do.
? and killing babies has been part of war it's part of what humans do in any society from the more religious ones to the more secular ones. IT'S largely a MYTH the religion causes warfare
If not for the church there would be no educational system in the first place because the idea of such things were a creation of religions at least in the west. THE POINT you are trying to make is not backed up by history, during all of history most people believed in ? and were much more religious, innovation still continued.
if you are saying that religion holds back society then you don't have much of an argument because i can list the amount of universities,schools, hospitals etc etc that have been started by churches before and after any other organization did any thing similar. the church being the cause of the rise of europe is not a bold statement it's the truth, and there were no other organizations to fund universities which goes back to one of my points about the history of europe. -
Using the historical example of galileo You tried to back up your flawed assumption that religion holds back society but when you actually dig deeper into european history what you find is that the opposite was true.
religion has been a net benefit for civilization especially western europe. Blaming religion for war is ?
here is a good book http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Religious-Violence-Ideology/dp/0195385047 -
Yes of course ? is not needed for life to exist and it has never been proven otherwise.
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I find it amusing that it's ignored that the Moors or the North African black Muslims help initiate the renaissance through their knowledge of science in regards to math, medicine, and the such.
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What religion did could have been done other ways, without the negatives that came along with it
