Can We All Agree That Tom Brady >>> Peyton Manning?
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Tom BradyI Am Jay ? wrote: »Why is Manning overrated so much? Dude has one superbowl and in that year in the playoffs he had 3 tds and 7 ints. Has been a career choker all his life. Played in a weak division 98 percent of his career. Jags, Titans, Texans (expansion team) and when he is done padding stats on those weak teams he goes to the playoffs and plays real teams and has 10 one and dones? and a losing playoff record.....smh. He is not even top 10 of all time, he is a stat padder
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Tom BradyManning was trash in the playoffs even the year he won the ring
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Yeah Brady always keeps his composure, never panics or acts crazy. They always catch Peyton cursing on TV and going off on the sidelines.probably nothing too different they do say he is a control freak and with people like that once control is lost they panic like crazy
Yeah real tough guy badass, that Tom Brady.-- thats what makes brady special to me his mental toughness
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You take Brady off the Pats, Belichick can still get them to 11-5, you take manning off any team he's on you get the first pick in the next draft.
This is the most overlooked fact in any brady-manning debate.
It's also in the same vein as the debate of determining MVP in a sport. Value vs. skill.
Peyton is more valuable to his team though Tom may be the better player. Hence, Peyton winning more MVPs while Tom more rings.
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I think THAT is where the debate should end up.
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Thread number 20 million comparing the two and I still have yet to see a case for Brady using actual football reasons
Tell me what Brady does on the field that makes him superior to Peyton
Help me look past him having the best and most prepared coach of all time -
Tom Brady4 SB wins>>>>> 1 SB win
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Tom BradyYou take Brady off the Pats, Belichick can still get them to 11-5, you take manning off any team he's on you get the first pick in the next draft.
This is the most overlooked fact in any brady-manning debate.
It's also in the same vein as the debate of determining MVP in a sport. Value vs. skill.
Peyton is more valuable to his team though Tom may be the better player. Hence, Peyton winning more MVPs while Tom more rings.
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I think THAT is where the debate should end up.
That's the most overrated fact imo, one team has a guy who was in the system for years ready to step in if need be and went on to make the playoffs and play in a pro bowl elsewhere, the other went and got a 40 year old alcoholic, and didn't Denver win a playoff game the year before Peyton got there? They were doing pretty well without him not like he went and turned a whole franchise around -
Peyton Manning out for the year colts got 1-15 but Brady goes out for the year 11-5
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Tom BradyEn-Fuego22 wrote: »Peyton Manning out for the year colts got 1-15 but Brady goes out for the year 11-5
Brady's teams keep changing. The Patriots team that won in 2002 is completely different from this years team except for Tom Brady and Bill Bellichek. -
Tom BradyTop 5 Qbs All Time
Brady
Montana
Marino
Elway
Farve
Before ppl try to say ? about Marino if ? can have Sanders a top 3 back (some even the GOAT) and Moss a top 3 WR than I'm putting Marino in the top 3 -
Tom Brady.
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Tom BradyLol at the poll, I remember when it was pretty even or in favor of Peyton, this is like a Nas vs Jay poll the day after ether
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Tom Bradyin the defense of peyton (because i dont really give a ? about either of them) i will say this though
steve young
brett favre
drew brees
johnny unitas
all have 1 ring and you dont hear them about choking
dan marino is considered top 10 with one sb appearance and every excuse in the book is made for why he didnt do better -- never heard choke
as weird as it may sound having 9 or 10 one and dones in the playoffs }}}} never having the opportunity to do so
lol -
THIS:its....JOHN B wrote: »That's the most overrated fact imo, one team has a guy who was in the system for years ready to step in if need be and went on to make the playoffs and play in a pro bowl elsewhere, the other went and got a 40 year old alcoholic, and didn't Denver win a playoff game the year before Peyton got there? They were doing pretty well without him not like he went and turned a whole franchise around
gets shut down by:En-Fuego22 wrote: »Peyton Manning out for the year colts got 1-15 but Brady goes out for the year 11-5
Numbers don't lie.
And lol @ doing pretty well. They went 8-8 and only got in the playoffs cuz the divison was ass. Then beat the Steelers on a lucky catch and run. That was the end of that. No one expected them to win the SB or even the conference, ever.
With Peyton they were the #1 #1 and #2.
3 years, 2 playoff wins and a conference title.
Had the best offense in NFL history one year.
That's more than 90% of the teams can say of their last 3 years.
That's turning a franchise around.
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Tom BradyRan across this lil nugget while researching Peyton's defenses vs Brady’s defenses
"Doesn’t it drive you crazy that everyone thinks Manning only won fewer titles than Brady because of the difference in quality of their defenses? I looked up the data: if you compare Manning’s defenses to Brady’s defenses since 2001 (the year Brady took over), they are almost EXACTLY the same. The average DVOA league rank for the Pats defense over that time frame is 15.769. The average DVOA for the Colts/Broncos (starting when Peyton went there) is 15.923. So people can take the “Manning’s better, he’s just had a worse defense” argument, put it in their pipes and smoke it." -
Tom BradyTHIS:its....JOHN B wrote: »That's the most overrated fact imo, one team has a guy who was in the system for years ready to step in if need be and went on to make the playoffs and play in a pro bowl elsewhere, the other went and got a 40 year old alcoholic, and didn't Denver win a playoff game the year before Peyton got there? They were doing pretty well without him not like he went and turned a whole franchise around
gets shut down by:En-Fuego22 wrote: »Peyton Manning out for the year colts got 1-15 but Brady goes out for the year 11-5
Numbers don't lie.
And lol @ doing pretty well. They went 8-8 and only got in the playoffs cuz the divison was ass. Then beat the Steelers on a lucky catch and run. That was the end of that. No one expected them to win the SB or even the conference, ever.
With Peyton they were the #1 #1 and #2.
3 years, 2 playoff wins and a conference title.
Had the best offense in NFL history one year.
That's more than 90% of the teams can say of their last 3 years.
That's turning a franchise around.
At the end of the day they were a team on the come up, and came out on top of a pretty tough division, then went on to win a playoff game regardless of a lucky catch or not, the whole 11-5 1-15 ? means nothing, one team was prepared and had a backup qb ready to step in and did a decent job with a team that went 16-0 a season before and the other team was not, that's not Brady's fault, in the 2011 season when our defense was historically bad Brian Hoyer could of stepped in and we might have won 4 games, it's a meaningless overrated fact in the Brady vs Manning debate, Manning getting his teams to the playoffs in the fashion he did it makes him top 5 all time, but his overall body of work in the playoffs is pretty pathetic and not up to par with Brady or Montana, I still got him 3 I only ? on him when comparing to Brady -
CockMcStuffins wrote: »Ran across this lil nugget while researching Peyton's defenses vs Brady’s defenses
"Doesn’t it drive you crazy that everyone thinks Manning only won fewer titles than Brady because of the difference in quality of their defenses? I looked up the data: if you compare Manning’s defenses to Brady’s defenses since 2001 (the year Brady took over), they are almost EXACTLY the same. The average DVOA league rank for the Pats defense over that time frame is 15.769. The average DVOA for the Colts/Broncos (starting when Peyton went there) is 15.923. So people can take the “Manning’s better, he’s just had a worse defense” argument, put it in their pipes and smoke it."
True, however it also seems like a skewed broad statement to support them being close.
Averaging the dvoa it was close, sure. Mostly due to Manning's years in Denver, when all 3 denver teams had a better dvoa than the Pats. But when Manning was on the Colts, (excluding 08 & 11 to injuries) he only had a better dvoa than Brady's team did twice. That's out of 9 years. So Brady did have the advantage throughout their careers, according to DVOA. Depends on which way you want to look at it.
And I'm sure those figures include 08 and 11, which if you take out, it rules more in favor of Manning having weaker defenses.
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Tom BradyManning has had top 10 defenses in indy and still under achieved in the playoffs....plus it was the D and running game that carried him to his only ring. A lot of his playoff losses weren't shootouts so it wasn't like his O was putting up amazing performances and being let down by the D....more often than not it was the offense performing way under their regular season production
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its....JOHN B wrote: »At the end of the day they were a team on the come up, and came out on top of a pretty tough division, then went on to win a playoff game regardless of a lucky catch or not, the whole 11-5 1-15 ? means nothing, one team was prepared and had a backup qb ready to step in and did a decent job with a team that went 16-0 a season before and the other team was not, that's not Brady's fault, in the 2011 season when our defense was historically bad Brian Hoyer could of stepped in and we might have won 4 games, it's a meaningless overrated fact in the Brady vs Manning debate, Manning getting his teams to the playoffs in the fashion he did it makes him top 5 all time, but his overall body of work in the playoffs is pretty pathetic and not up to par with Brady or Montana, I still got him 3 I only ? on him when comparing to Brady
It is NOT a meaningless fact. Like you said Brady had a team around him capable of the best regular season of all time. Manning never had that.
Brady left and the team had 5 less wins.
Manning left and the team was the WORST IN THE LEAGUE and had 8 less wins.
To say that matters NONE is ridiculous.
The latter part of your paragraph I agree with. -
Tom BradySo let me get this strait,
Brady has 6 Super Bowl appearances and went 4-2
Manning has 3 Super Bowl appearances and is 1-2
And we're still debating this?
Didn't Brady throw for 5,000+ yards a few years ago?
Edit. I just did a search. Brady threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.
double edit. But Peyton threw for 5,477 yards in 2013. -
So let me get this strait,
Brady has 6 Super Bowl appearances and went 4-2
Manning has 3 Super Bowl appearances and is 1-2
And we're still debating this?
Didn't Brady throw for 5,000+ yards a few years ago?
Edit. I just did a search. Brady threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.
double edit. But Peyton threw for 5,477 yards in 2013.
I'd think it's unanimous on who is more accomplished in their career. Some would argue passing records over rings, but let's be serious. 4 rings is damn good. Peyton Manning himself would probably take 4 rings over the records he currently holds.
However, as RD pointed out earlier, no one has really made a case for why Tom Brady is a better QB ON THE FIELD, using football reasons to back it up.
Im talking about things like arm strength, pocket presence, reading defense, leadership etc... intangibles included. That's where the debate should be really.
To further illustrate this point, I'll ask this question:
Say there is no record of either QB's career or accomplishments. You know nothing of their legacy. You have them both in their prime (a year of your choosing) and you can choose one for your team. By observing their mechanics ON THE FIELD, why would you choose one over the other?
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That is the question people need to answer to satisfy "who is the better QB".
I feel like what we are doing is "who had the better career?" -
Tom BradySo let me get this strait,
Brady has 6 Super Bowl appearances and went 4-2
Manning has 3 Super Bowl appearances and is 1-2
And we're still debating this?
Didn't Brady throw for 5,000+ yards a few years ago?
Edit. I just did a search. Brady threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.
double edit. But Peyton threw for 5,477 yards in 2013.
I'd think it's unanimous on who is more accomplished in their career. Some would argue passing records over rings, but let's be serious. 4 rings is damn good. Peyton Manning himself would probably take 4 rings over the records he currently holds.
However, as RD pointed out earlier, no one has really made a case for why Tom Brady is a better QB ON THE FIELD, using football reasons to back it up.
Im talking about things like arm strength, pocket presence, reading defense, leadership etc... intangibles included. That's where the debate should be really.
To further illustrate this point, I'll ask this question:
Say there is no record of either QB's career or accomplishments. You know nothing of their legacy. You have them both in their prime (a year of your choosing) and you can choose one for your team. By observing their mechanics ON THE FIELD, why would you choose one over the other?
^
That is the question people need to answer to satisfy "who is the better QB".
I feel like what we are doing is "who had the better career?"
The question I keep asking myself is;
When the season is on the line and you put the ball in his hands Brady has taken his team to the big game 6 times and won 4.
In contrast, when the season is on the line and you put the ball in his hands, Manning has taken his team to the big game 3 times and choked twice.
Regular season performance is arguably irrelevant in football. What matters is how you perform in the playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl.
I don't want to open up a can of worms but Eli Manning has a better Super Bowl record than his brother 2-0. -
So let me get this strait,
Brady has 6 Super Bowl appearances and went 4-2
Manning has 3 Super Bowl appearances and is 1-2
And we're still debating this?
Didn't Brady throw for 5,000+ yards a few years ago?
Edit. I just did a search. Brady threw for 5,235 yards in 2011.
double edit. But Peyton threw for 5,477 yards in 2013.
I'd think it's unanimous on who is more accomplished in their career. Some would argue passing records over rings, but let's be serious. 4 rings is damn good. Peyton Manning himself would probably take 4 rings over the records he currently holds.
However, as RD pointed out earlier, no one has really made a case for why Tom Brady is a better QB ON THE FIELD, using football reasons to back it up.
Im talking about things like arm strength, pocket presence, reading defense, leadership etc... intangibles included. That's where the debate should be really.
To further illustrate this point, I'll ask this question:
Say there is no record of either QB's career or accomplishments. You know nothing of their legacy. You have them both in their prime (a year of your choosing) and you can choose one for your team. By observing their mechanics ON THE FIELD, why would you choose one over the other?
^
That is the question people need to answer to satisfy "who is the better QB".
I feel like what we are doing is "who had the better career?"
The question I keep asking myself is;
When the season is on the line and you put the ball in his hands Brady has taken his team to the big game 6 times and won 4.
In contrast, when the season is on the line and you put the ball in his hands, Manning has taken his team to the big game 3 times and choked twice.
Regular season performance is arguably irrelevant in football. What matters is how you perform in the playoffs and ultimately the Super Bowl.
I don't want to open up a can of worms but Eli Manning has a better Super Bowl record than his brother 2-0.
Here is my stance on wins and losses.
Can a team lose a game with their quarterback playing a perfect game?
Can a team win a game with their quarterback playing a horrible game?
The answer in both cases is indisputably yes. With proof to back it up.
And because of that, wins and losses shouldn't be the ONLY thing we base someone's career off of.
And yes Eli has a better Sb record than Peyton, but nobody in their right mind would say Eli is better than Peyton. So that in itself proves that winning Superbowls can be a product of circumstance out of the QB's control.
If you put Peyton on the Giants in Eli's place in those two Superbowls, would it be reasonable to say Peyton could win those as well? -
Case in point... In this last Superbowl, before that last interception...
If the seahawks run the clock down to 1 second (which they could've done) and then run it in with Lynch, they win and Brady is now 3-3 in Superbowls. And people look at him different. But what happened happened, because of Brady's DEFENSE, and he is now 4-2. Many plays have happened over Brady's CAREER to make him 4-2, both in and out of his favor.
So when people compare SB rings it's laughable to say that that is the sole comparison required to validate a QB's skill. No QB in the history of the NFL won ANY SB ring by himself. -
Tom BradyTom Brady has four game winning comeback drives in the super bowl, Peyton..... yeah let's not go there.
This discussion has been closed.