When the GOP Challenged Israel
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i believe the argument is that Bush would have handled the post-withdrawal phase differently than Obama, which we have no real way to verify one way or another, but which is the argument, i supposekingblaze84 wrote: »Obama followed the Bush-Iraqi agreement of withdrawing troops by December 2011 though....Bush signed the agreement that American troops would leave by 2011, and Obama followed that agreement, Iraqis and the Iraqi govt didn't like American troops being there...
look, whatever you think of the USS Liberty incident, the fact that it happened is kind of a lame "we don't have a military alliance with Israel" argumentkingblaze84 wrote: »Israel bombed a bunch of American sailors in 1967 and despite that, has done nothing to help America in its many wars in the region.
there's a lot of tech/intel interplay with Israel; the fact that it's not 100% perfect doesn't mean this doesn't happen (and remember that one of the issues with the Iran thing is that Israeli military guys don't all seem to agree with the stated line of "Iran's going to ? us all with a nuke")
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We forget, we've (America) had beef with Middle East since the 1800's and the Euros who came to America prior had beef since the crusades.
Just listen to the Marine Corps song "To the Shores of Tripoli" -
And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Can anyone explain what the hell does supporting Israel do for America....? It oppresses and steals land from people, commits war crimes every few months, ruins America's reputation, and doesn't do ? to help America with its own problems......
What the ? does Israel do for America, aside from acting like a parasite off America's back??
It's a military and economic alliance they also share lots of intelligence information with america. who knows how many terrorist attacks have been stopped because of that information
Economic alliance for politicians and groups that aid them, not for the American people. Military alliance, how? Israel bombed a bunch of American sailors in 1967 and despite that, has done nothing to help America in its many wars in the region. Where is the help from them, they're the ones whining about Iran doing big things with Iraq, so why isn't Israel helping out....face it, Israel is a drain, America is losing respect from the world and our vetoes protecting Israel in the UN looks like a joke.
SMH... 1967 ? there is something called friendly fire and in any case every relationship changes, over time america has grown closer and closer to israel. ISREAL actively engaging in direct conflict would be the worse thing to happen in the middle east it would be like a signal to all the arabs to invade israel. which would only be a disaster for every one involved. what many wars in the region???? we have only had two wars there since the early 90's
what world are you living in????
AND LIKE I SAID a lot of there help is in the form of intelligence information you keep talking about this respect from the world ? the people who are allied with america are linked to us based on their own interest not how much they respect us. ? the respect of people who are ideologically opposed to you.
You think america wanted the love of russia during the cold war???? no
If we drop an ally as close as israel what does that say to our other allies all over the world?????
So if Israel can't help out in any of America's conflicts in the Middle East and north Africa, then again, what the hell is it good for? Israel's intelligence is TERRIBLE, they said in the 80s Iran would build a nuclear weapon within a decade, and it's 2015 and Iran still doesn't have one. Israel's intelligence said Saddam likely did have WMDs and we of course know Saddam only had the little chemical weapons he bought from France and Germany. Israel's intelligence is a bad joke and the scam of modern times.
As far as Israel and helping America fight its constant battles, why can't the little parasite nation of Israel help out? They're such a BIG help to America right? Oh that's right, Israel is hated in the region so again, what ? good are they? Their intelligence sucks, and they barely repay their loans, I'm not even sure if they do. Dropping Israel or at least the govt they have now would tell the world America is ready to not support terrorism for once.
And did you smoke something, America has been in many conflicts in the region, just two since the 90s, what the hell? You forgot about.....ah nevermind, you on one.
They DO HELP they run one of the worlds best intelligence agencies, iran has not built that bomb yet because of israel. You know how many iranian scientist israel has killed the increased sanctions all that has hindered iran from making a bomb.
dropping israel would only signal to the world that america is weak and cannot be depended on and conflicts are not wars you ? idiot.
YOU MIGHT AS well join isis you hate america and israel so much what the ? are you even doing here
Israel's intelligence is overrated, and again they're not helping America out with its many conflicts in the region. Israel's intelligence was wrong on Saddam and they even said Saddam had WMD LOL. ? outta here with Israel and its faulty intelligence. Israel is a nation that whines and ? about Iran being so close to Iraq now but Israel never militarily helps America out with its many conflicts around the region, a nation as hated as Israel in the region is basically useless. I support America giving aid to Israel IF it makes peace with its neighbors but since Israel is too stubborn to do so, I have no problem dropping and even placing sanctions on Israel as long as its behavior doesn't change. More and more Americans are with the idea and I'm proud to say that.
As far as me hating America, that's false. Martin Luther King Jr said probably worse about America, he called America the greatest purveyor of violence in the world during the Vietnam War. Should Martin Luther King Jr have remained silent on America's massive crimes against humanity? Should I post up the quotes on MLK Jr and him calling America a threat to humans around the globe politically and militarily......? You would have told MLK to leave America right, HAHA.
If you think what I say is bad, you should read what former American soldiers have said about America and the terrorism it gave to Iraqis and other nations. You're beyond ignorant on the terrorism of America and Israel, but that's okay, people around the world are not. Look at the United Nations and the constant criticism it gives to Israel, nations in Africa, Latin America, the Caribbean, and Asia CONSTANTLY diss Israel in the United Nations. Most of the world agrees with me and would laugh you out the room. -
i believe the argument is that Bush would have handled the post-withdrawal phase differently than Obama, which we have no real way to verify one way or another, but which is the argument, i supposekingblaze84 wrote: »Obama followed the Bush-Iraqi agreement of withdrawing troops by December 2011 though....Bush signed the agreement that American troops would leave by 2011, and Obama followed that agreement, Iraqis and the Iraqi govt didn't like American troops being there...
look, whatever you think of the USS Liberty incident, the fact that it happened is kind of a lame "we don't have a military alliance with Israel" argumentkingblaze84 wrote: »Israel bombed a bunch of American sailors in 1967 and despite that, has done nothing to help America in its many wars in the region.
there's a lot of tech/intel interplay with Israel; the fact that it's not 100% perfect doesn't mean this doesn't happen (and remember that one of the issues with the Iran thing is that Israeli military guys don't all seem to agree with the stated line of "Iran's going to ? us all with a nuke")
Yeah I forgot many in the Mossad believe Iran isn't really trying to build a nuclear weapon, but Netanyahu and the other crooks in his govt seem to insist that Iran is. -
Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia? -
You know how many ? times Israel has tried to make peace with it's neighbors?? They don't want peace. It's the stated goal of democratically elected Hamas to destroy Israel.
And Israeli intelligence is secret the help we get is not going to be made public. All the anti Israel ? is just anti semitism.and a large portion of the aid we give Israel comes back to us because they buy American made products with that money.
We spend only a tiny amount of our wealth on all foreign aid and the investment is well worth the pay off. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia?
you really what israel to push gaza into the sea don't you???? sanctions on israel would be a horrible idea and would cause more suffering for the enemies of israel. -
i do think he plays up some things for political consumption (or to take a harder position from which to negotiate), but obviously there are some downsides therekingblaze84 wrote: »Yeah I forgot many in the Mossad believe Iran isn't really trying to build a nuclear weapon, but Netanyahu and the other crooks in his govt seem to insist that Iran is. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia?
you really what israel to push gaza into the sea don't you???? sanctions on israel would be a horrible idea and would cause more suffering for the enemies of israel.
Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians?? If anything, it would make Israel more desperate to get America's approval again and make them treat the Palestinians better. Sanctions made South Africa end apartheid in the 80s and early 90s. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia?
you really what israel to push gaza into the sea don't you???? sanctions on israel would be a horrible idea and would cause more suffering for the enemies of israel.
Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians?? If anything, it would make Israel more desperate to get America's approval again and make them treat the Palestinians better. Sanctions made South Africa end apartheid in the 80s and early 90s.
Israel is not south Africa and will mostly likely react with extreme violence and increasing security measures if they feel their backs are against the wall.
With no friends on the region and surrounded by people with a religious doctrine that demands subjugation of non muslims. Israel can't take and chances -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia?
you really what israel to push gaza into the sea don't you???? sanctions on israel would be a horrible idea and would cause more suffering for the enemies of israel.
Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians?? If anything, it would make Israel more desperate to get America's approval again and make them treat the Palestinians better. Sanctions made South Africa end apartheid in the 80s and early 90s.
Israel is not south Africa and will mostly likely react with extreme violence and increasing security measures if they feel their backs are against the wall.
With no friends on the region and surrounded by people with a religious doctrine that demands subjugation of non muslims. Israel can't take and chances
Well if Israel reacts like that to sanctions, then the world will see for itself what a terror state it is, and take further action and isolate it even more. Hell, Iran would probably be justified in waging an attack against Israel if it acted in such a way, and you're frankly assuming a lot. You don't know how Israel would react if America put sanctions on it, it would depend on the type of govt they have. You can blame religious doctrine for Israel being hated but many of the Palestinians are Christian or have some other religion aside from Islam.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Focal Point wrote: »And you don't drop your friends (Israel), but you also don't support their bad habits either (a lot of grimy shot).
What about sanctions on Israel, until it cleans up its behavior? Similar to how America sanctions Russia?
you really what israel to push gaza into the sea don't you???? sanctions on israel would be a horrible idea and would cause more suffering for the enemies of israel.
Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians?? If anything, it would make Israel more desperate to get America's approval again and make them treat the Palestinians better. Sanctions made South Africa end apartheid in the 80s and early 90s.
Israel is not south Africa and will mostly likely react with extreme violence and increasing security measures if they feel their backs are against the wall.
With no friends on the region and surrounded by people with a religious doctrine that demands subjugation of non muslims. Israel can't take and chances
Well if Israel reacts like that to sanctions, then the world will see for itself what a terror state it is, and take further action and isolate it even more. Hell, Iran would probably be justified in waging an attack against Israel if it acted in such a way, and you're frankly assuming a lot. You don't know how Israel would react if America put sanctions on it, it would depend on the type of govt they have. You can blame religious doctrine for Israel being hated but many of the Palestinians are Christian or have some other religion aside from Islam.
Less than 2% of Palestinians are Christians. If Israel reacts like that it will be it's enemies fault. because we would have left it no other option.
I consider it a very likely assumption because Israel is surrounded by dictatorships or unstable governments. It is the only democratic nation in the region -
? Israel!
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Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians??
The Palestinian economy is deeply intertwined with that of Israel. Makes sense after all, between 1967 and 1994 the West Bank was basically just another part of Israel. According to this great article:
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/03/letter_boycotting_israeli_companies_hurts_palestin.html
"Israel provides 110,000 Palestinians with jobs that pay well, has built 16 industrial parks in the Palestinian territory and East Jerusalem that hosts more than 1,000 facilities where Jews and Arabs work together under similar working conditions." -
Sandinista wrote: »Why would sanctions on Israel make things worse for the Palestinians??
The Palestinian economy is deeply intertwined with that of Israel. Makes sense after all, between 1967 and 1994 the West Bank was basically just another part of Israel. According to this great article:
http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2015/03/letter_boycotting_israeli_companies_hurts_palestin.html
"Israel provides 110,000 Palestinians with jobs that pay well, has built 16 industrial parks in the Palestinian territory and East Jerusalem that hosts more than 1,000 facilities where Jews and Arabs work together under similar working conditions."
Well sanctions on Israel would hurt Palestinians to a degree but like the sanctions placed on apartheid South Africa, it would be worth the cost long term. Considering the massive damage Israel's terrorism is bringing to America's reputation worldwide and really to the west's reputation worldwide , the sooner America puts sanctions on Israel, the better.
Israel giving some Palestinians jobs isn't making Israel much more popular in the region. Israelis being run over with cars, kidnapped, and shot at with rockets shows those jobs aren't doing much for public opinion.
