Why hasn't Hip-Hop united under a Socio-Economic System/Philosophy Yet?

MoeskezliMoeskezli Members Posts: 103
edited October 2010 in The Reason
As a direct product of the underclass, why hasn't Hip-Hop smartened up and begin to move towards becoming a self-sufficient system for it and its audience? I remember KRS-One talking about the ability of Hip-Hop to start its own country, and it doesn't sound far-fetched. It extends past being just music into a culture with its own language, philosophies, and capitol. Hip-Hop's a multi-billion dollar industry, being represented now in politics (Kevin Powell) economics (Jay-Z) etc. Not saying that rubbing elbows with whites is supposed to mean something, but to the contrary it s a testament to the potential power that we have to actually make moves. I wanna elaborate but my mind is scattered. In the end, Hip-Hop has the ability to service, feed, clothe, employ, house, educate and strengthen its own people. My questions for yall

- Why hasn't this happened yet?
- Would yall be interested in something like this?
- If so what type of system would you propose?

*kanye shrug*
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Replies

  • El PayasoEl Payaso Members Posts: 1,446 ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Shut the 🤬 🤬 up and welcome to the ic
  • Nah SonNah Son Habitual Line Stepper Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    I think hip hop is too driven by challenge and competition for that. You will never have unity and peace and love all over the hip hop scene, there is too much competition, hate, envy and anger for that. And it starts with us, the fan.
    Just take a look at the criticism that some major figures in hip hop receive on a regular basis. Jay-Z=sellout. Eminem=racist white boy. Pac=fake thug. Nas=lost. When even the "leaders" aren't accepted fully by the public, how should the culture be united? I don't think it can be.

    El Payaso wrote: »
    Shut the 🤬 🤬 up and welcome to the ic

    Great way of bringing igorance in a deep thread.
  • MoeskezliMoeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    ca21 wrote: »
    I think hip hop is too driven by challenge and competition for that. You will never have unity and peace and love all over the hip hop scene, there is too much competition, hate, envy and anger for that. And it starts with us, the fan.
    Just take a look at the criticism that some major figures in hip hop receive on a regular basis. Jay-Z=sellout. Eminem=racist whity boy. Pac=fake thug. Nas= lost. When even the "leaders" aren't accepted fully by the public, how should the culture be united? I don't think it can be.

    I never thought about this, good point. But alot of these inner quarrels are manipulated, back to the Panthers and the Bloods and Crips. I think if we all had a common goal against a common enemy (which we do), it could happen. I think the competitiveness stems from manipulation as well, going back to slavery and pitting us against each other, we're bred that way. So would you agree that if Hip-Hop was used to convincingly change the minds of the people into a more collective vs opportunistic condition BEFORE we tried to get together and make a change, could it be done then?
  • MoeskezliMoeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    El Payaso wrote: »
    Shut the 🤬 🤬 up and welcome to the ic

    Thanks bruh
  • MoeskezliMoeskezli Members Posts: 103
    edited September 2010
    sboogie wrote: »
    blacks are too dumb to unite for anything meaningful......
    or maybe the system is too racist.......
    or maybe its a little of both.......

    Conditioning, which can be reversed I believe. But let's not limit this to just blacks. Hip-Hop is definitely has a have-not, underclass/working class, little fish big pond identity that the masses beyond can move with
  • Nah SonNah Son Habitual Line Stepper Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 9,367 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Moeskezli wrote: »
    I never thought about this, good point. But alot of these inner quarrels are manipulated, back to the Panthers and the Bloods and Crips. I think if we all had a common goal against a common enemy (which we do), it could happen. I think the competitiveness stems from manipulation as well, going back to slavery and pitting us against each other, we're bred that way. So would you agree that if Hip-Hop was used to convincingly change the minds of the people into a more collective vs opportunistic condition BEFORE we tried to get together and make a change, could it be done then?

    Yes it could, but I don't think that that kind of change will happen. Hip Hop is a mainstream culture and mainstream always means that there is a lot of ignorance included. Like I don't think that the Waka Flocka and Gucci Mane listeners (which are a main part of hip hop today) care too much about a common goal and fighting a common enemy. But then again I have never been to the US and just can relate to what I am able to observe via the media, internet etc.
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    It will take some years for that to happen and it wont be until hip hop isn't seen as profitable anymore.
  • JokerzWyldJokerzWyld Fazer o que você gosta é liberdade. Gostar do que você faz é felicidade Chocolate CityMembers Posts: 5,483 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Moeskezli wrote: »
    As a direct product of the underclass, why hasn't Hip-Hop smartened up and begin to move towards becoming a self-sufficient system for it and its audience? I remember KRS-One talking about the ability of Hip-Hop to start its own country, and it doesn't sound far-fetched. It extends past being just music into a culture with its own language, philosophies, and capitol. Hip-Hop's a multi-billion dollar industry, being represented now in politics (Kevin Powell) economics (Jay-Z) etc. Not saying that rubbing elbows with whites is supposed to mean something, but to the contrary it s a testament to the potential power that we have to actually make moves. I wanna elaborate but my mind is scattered. In the end, Hip-Hop has the ability to service, feed, clothe, employ, house, educate and strengthen its own people. My questions for yall

    - Why hasn't this happened yet?
    - Would yall be interested in something like this?
    - If so what type of system would you propose?

    *kanye shrug*

    You ask a very powerful question that i have also asked. To answer your questions, i don't think hip hop artists today are smart enough to execute such a feat, and the ones that are aren't popular or "relevant" in pop culture. I think for artists to do what you and KRS are talking about they would have to be accepted, and most of today's acceptable artists are the most dumbed down. Most listeners are TRAINED to admire radio-friendly rappers who are industry created and disposable. For hip hop to rise up it would require a massive major-to-indie label movement, then they will need lyrics inundated with conscious content and uplifting messages. From their it can made into a lucrative product by and for the urban/black working-class. IMO of course.
  • Brian B.Brian B. Members Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    the powers that be do not want this to happen
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    Chalee_Boi wrote: »
    We have the wrong rappers/people making the most money.

    If Jay Z has enough influence to make people stop wearing jerseys and start wearing button ups, or stop drinking crystal, then I wonder if he started telling people more positive things would people do it?
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Hiphop is bigger than the hood and one race at this point, i think in order for it to have longevity it had to move out the hood and embrace everyone. There is only so much you can rap about struggle and being black, the essential soul and foundation of hiphop is telling your story, whether it be a rich one, poor one, middle class, black, white,etc. The 🤬 🤬 is all over the world (UK, Africa,Asia,Carribean,etc) and interpreted differently to different people, plus it's not a belief and system like forms of government. You can define communism and implement it, you can't do that for rap.
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    Chalee_Boi wrote: »
    They probably would. Jay, Diddy, and 50 don't know what unity is. These are men that made millions off of bragging about themselves and competition. They have always been out for self...

    If blacks can own their own distribution companies then we would be in business. So instead of Roc Nation, and Ciroc liquor, or G Unit cloths they should combine their money and create their own distribution.
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Rap is built on individuality, i don't understand why you guys expect unity and monolithic thinking. Plus the ego of rap alone doesn't foster unity, money and position is involve.
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    If blacks can own their own distribution companies then we would be in business. So instead of Roc Nation, and Ciroc liquor, or G Unit cloths they should combine their money and create their own distribution.



    Why are yall still stuck on that distribution nonsense. The record industry business model is broken, why would anyone get into distribution when albums aren't selling anymore. I tell you who needs competition, Itunes, they are ripping off these artists based off of the music old business of points off singles and albums.


    Plus what you guys fail to consider is individuality and greed essentially pushes the system. If everyone teams up, there is no competition and creativity. That's essentially communism, you need the individualism for growth and creativity.
  • monolithicpawmonolithicpaw Members Posts: 246 ✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Excellent thread. My take on this, is that Hip hop is a culture. Much of what Krs1 speaks of is'nt too far- fetched. If you think about it. Hip Hop is gaining more independence then ever. There are still more artists out there than we can even imagine. Thats because it's a culture. It's easy to see all the 🤬 🤬 that I dont like. but the more that I dig (surf), the more dope music I find.There are a lot of people doing Hip hop for the love. And at this moment in time, more people are making money within it than ever before. Thats power to the people right there. Say what you want about Obama, but wihout Hip Hop. he wouldn't have been elected. That means something People! We for the first time really stood up and won against america's right wing power structure.
    I think in the very near future Rap music will lose it's star appeal. and artists will just be looked at as cultural figures and not stars. The internet is responsible for this, We also have a lot of rapper/activists. It's inevitable that Hip Hoppers permeate every level of Government, Military and Commerce. keep in mind it's just a lil' more than 30 yrs old. But I just don't see it Uniting to the point where it Has it's own "nationality" and state. In some ways that seems counter to what Hip Hop is about. It's suppsed to be Splintered.
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Chalee_Boi wrote: »
    You can have individuality within the music, that's fine. But they can make a lot more money together. I'm not asking for them to be on some "We are the world" type 🤬 🤬 , but they should put egos aside and have their own distribution 🤬 🤬 . More money for everyone.

    See what i said above, it's the whole communism vs capitalism system. There is no incensitive to work hard when your sharing wealth with everyone else, the individualism breathes competition and growth.If one company controlled everything, everyone would 🤬 🤬 about sick of hearing the same type of music or seeing the same artist. You need balance in the game or else you get 🤬 🤬 like Viacom, Clear Channel,etc monopolizing 🤬 🤬 and getting controlled by corporate entities.
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    Why are yall still stuck on that distribution nonsense. The record industry business model is broken, why would anyone get into distribution when albums aren't selling anymore. I tell you who needs competition, Itunes, they are ripping off these artists based off of the music old business of points off singles and albums.


    Plus what you guys fail to consider is individuality and greed essentially pushes the system. If everyone teams up, there is no competition and creativity. That's essentially communism, you need the individualism for growth and creativity.

    You actually make a good point about competition for itunes, but companies still distribute music, so if we can own distribution there would be more money in it for blacks.
  • Brian B.Brian B. Members Posts: 6,717 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    If blacks can own their own distribution companies then we would be in business. So instead of Roc Nation, and Ciroc liquor, or G Unit cloths they should combine their money and create their own distribution.


    I remember hearin bout J Prince & a few others who tried to do that

    but the powers that be would not allow it
  • usmarin3usmarin3 Members Posts: 38,013 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    You actually make a good point about competition for itunes, but companies still distribute music, so if we can own distribution there would be more money in it for blacks.


    The record store/cd is pretty much dead dude, most music is sell online now. There is no purpose on jumping on a dead format, when is the last time you seen a record store.The money is in companies like Rhapsody,Amazon, Itunes.
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    usmarin3 wrote: »
    The record store/cd is pretty much dead dude, most music is sell online now. There is no purpose on jumping on a dead format, when is the last time you seen a record store.The money is in companies like Rhapsody,Amazon, Itunes.

    CD's will always serve it's purpose, just like vinyl. Distribution is still needed because they directly ship out the music to companies including Itunes.
  • ShadyTeamShadyTeam Members Posts: 4,894 ✭✭
    edited September 2010
    Jamaica is more anti white then i actually thought
  • Cabana_Da_DonCabana_Da_Don Members Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    It aint gonna happen unless the people that buy music demand the intelligent rappers.
  • hrap-120hrap-120 Members Posts: 9,449 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    If blacks can own their own distribution companies then we would be in business. So instead of Roc Nation, and Ciroc liquor, or G Unit cloths they should combine their money and create their own distribution.
    Brilliant post, but heartbreaking as well.
  • 5th Letter5th Letter Black Identified Extremist Members, Moderators, Writer Posts: 37,068 Regulator
    edited September 2010
    ShadyTeam wrote: »
    Jamaica is more anti white then i actually thought

    Not really I dont know what gave you that idea.


    The people that control distribution and the ones that signs diddy's and Jay Z checks are the ones with real power.

    So instead of 🤬 🤬 record labels, and liquor and clothing companies, why not go for something that can get you in that ultimate position?
  • ShadyTeamShadyTeam Members Posts: 4,894 ✭✭
    edited September 2010
    jamacia wrote: »
    Not really I dont know what gave you that idea.


    The people that control distribution and the ones that signs diddy's and Jay Z checks are the ones with real power.

    So instead of 🤬 🤬 record labels, and liquor and clothing companies, why not go for something that can get you in that ultimate position?


    Well i don't believe you to me you are anti white and insecure
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