Why do/don't you believe in ? ?
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alissowack wrote: »maestro_lungs wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@maestro_lungs. Well, let me be specific. Have I literally condemned you to Hell? People who do that I believe don't have the slightest idea the weight of such a task. If they did, then they wouldn't do it. What's going on is that you already have this perspective that this is what "Christians" do; they bash you over the head with the Bible to tell you it's true and then go do something hypocritical that makes you want to do the same. I could say that's not me, but it is to say that I am aware that I could just as well be guilty of it.
The issue of ? 's Existence involves more than just logic. I don't think you understand the "attachment" associated with this. It's one thing to observe "? " but it is another to commit to ? .
Whether You Did or Not or The Specific Part of Christianity you Have adapted Has Condemn me to hell is Not The Point! This is Part of The Doctrine, Is it Not? My Perspective isn't on Heresay, It's Based on Experience & Observation. You're Wrong, I Care Less about People Being Hypocritical. It's Natural.
My Problem is How Unhealthy & Dangerous Belief can be! If People were in Private & Personal with they Belief, Instead of Forcing it into Our Laws, Schools & Other Things That Effect Everyone, I Wouldn't be AS Vocal about my Disbelief. I'd Still Say Something, But alot Less!
I Think @Blackxchild Summed up the Last Part of Your Post. How is ? above Logic? I Could say that About anything, The Smurfs, Spiderman or Whatever Jim Jones was Talking. Don't Make it True & Committing or Basing Your Life on Untrue Things can be Dangerous as Evident with Jim Jones, Dr York, The Muslims in the Middle East or The Racist Christians in Middle America!
Hypocrisy is important in to you. I remember you posting something suggesting that you hold "Christians" to a high standand because of what is taught. You've post scriptures to make a point of how "Christians" are worthy of death because of disobedience. These things are one of the reasons why you are vocal. It's not just some miniscule "natural" occurence. You want people to know there is something is not right about this. So what a "book" says where people go when they die? It doesn't mean that people have the authority to do it. It's possible for people to try to make you feel like they have some sort of control over you, but that's it. And...maybe if you really did your Bible Study, you will see that those same people who try to condemn you with Scripture must also answer to those same Scriptures.
I said ? 's Existence involves "more than just" logic...not ? is above logic. It involves both logic and desire (or the metaphorical "heart"). I could have said it though but ? would have to exist "first" in your perspective for ? to be above anything.
There are a lot of things that are dangerous and unhealthy. To just throw your chips in on what belief does makes it seem as if it is the main culprit for the problems of the world. I've said before, things don't look as good without "belief" either...either. You throw percentages at me as to say that I can now "commit" to the world and be "alright" if someone does wrong apart from belief. If I observe that there is injustice, then I shouldn't have a desire to have that injustice addressed. And even if you suggest that this is something we "naturally" do, we can't even suggest that this desire is something we can own up to or take responsibility for.
What? I Hold any Person who Wears they Religion on they Sleeve to a Higher Standard & I Posted The Punishment for not Following the Commandments not to show they worthy of death. They Bible Might feel like that, But Not I! I'm Vocal for Way More Reasons Than That. Not Only Does The Book Lie about Death, It Lies about Birth & Life. Preaches ? , Slavery & Tons of Things I Disagree With. There Goes That Argument From Authority again. You Just Assumed I Haven't Read The Bible & Since You Have, You Think You can Tell me Something about it I Don't Know, So You Suggest I Study it. Which I Have & Read from Front to Back & Not Just Bits & Parts of Scripture!
The Control over you is so Deep, You don't even see it as Control! Desire is to Want something & I Could Want something all day, Don't Make it True! ? 's Existence has Nothing to do with a Metaphorical Heart, Just Another way of saying I Feel it in my Heart!
Belief is a Major Culprit for the Problems of the World. Look at Countries that Are More Secular. They Tend to be doing better than Countries who are Religious in Nature. What You Deem injustice is Subjective. You can have a Desire to Stamp it out, but Does that make ? True? Is That a Reason to Believe in a Man in the Sky, Cause You Have a Natural Human Compassion? -
maestro_lungs wrote: »lol...? mad cause they had ? confused
stupid by what standard?BlackxChild wrote: »Eveyone has the right to feel how they want it doesnt prevent it from being stupid though.maestro_lungs wrote: »@Alissowack You Fall into one of these
The argument from authority. (Example: "? exists because the Bible says ? exists.")
The argument from personal experience. (Example: "? exists because I feel in my heart that ? exists.")
The argument that religion shouldn't have to logically defend its claims. (Example: "? is an entity that cannot be proven by reason or evidence.")
Or the redefining of ? into an abstract principle -- so abstract that it can't be argued against, but also so abstract that it scarcely deserves the name ? . (Example: "? is love.")
And all these arguments are incredibly weak.
Sacred books and authorities can be mistaken. I have yet to see a sacred book that doesn't have any mistakes. (The Bible, for just one example, is shot full of them.) And the feelings in people's hearts can definitely be mistaken. They are mistaken, demonstrably so, much of the time. Instinct and intuition play an important part of human understanding and experience... but they should never be treated as the final word on a subject.
? please. You dont know hebrew or Greek to know if the Bible is wrong or not or where and how it is right or wrong. You just repeating somebody elses ? cause it sounds smart to you. You dont know ? about the Bible to say what you are definitively. That fact makes everything else you are saying baseless.
How Stupid do You Sound? Why Would I Have to Know Greek or Hebrew to Know That Certain Places & Events didn't Happen & It's False! You Just wanna Believe wit all Your Heart in Something that Has No Evidence. You Basically Believe cause Everybody else does!
First of all, you only know that evidence for whatever places and events you think you are speaking of has not been presented for public consumption. Youre not in the specific and closed off upper echelons of palentology or archaeology to know what has been found or not. All you can do is trust the institutions made to filter such findings to be forthcoming. Considering undeniable human history thats not too smart. All that aside, if you took the time to learn the language of something you take time to criticize, you would see that it wasnt the authors intention to convey a linear document describing 3 dimensional events. Simply put, you dont even know what the book says dude, so your comments are pure ignorance by the very definition of the word. ? the ? you on is like a movie critic who write weekly reviews but aint never sat through an entire ? movie in his life. i dont believe ? . I get something TOTALLY different out of the texts than most people do and they attack me for that ? too. The federal government fears the movement I am in because of how we interpret scriptures from the original languages. And we are well documented vegan pacifists. So why are we a threat? Why did J.Edgar Hoover attempt to "prevent the rise of a black Messiah"? Why not just a black leader? You have no ? idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. As I told another one of your fool ass friends, you were told there is no ? by the people who made themselves ? over yo. How ? dumb are you to not realize that the same people who made up and push the ideologies of atheism are the same ones who push religious ideologies and dogmas. Hegelian dialectic. If you stop 69'ing with your own ego maybe you can look up long enough to see the forest for the trees. -
@maestro_lungs How is being suggestive being authoritative? I was helping you out when I said that. I was suggesting that the Bible applies to "Christians", too. And, you are doing the same things you are accusing "Christians" are doing suggesting they are being "controlled"...appealing to the emotions. I could just as well be one of these posters that insults you every single time I post (I know, my moral conduct doesn't make ? true).
Again...I said "those of the reasons" for why you are vocal...not for those two reasons. Give me some credit, I know there are other reasons you may have. And I think I need to start making disclaimers so you stop using the "that doesn't make ? true" argument everytime I make a point.
You say belief is a major culprit, but it is not THE culprit. Getting rid of belief is not going to stop the struggles of the world...and I might as well say this now, belief is not going to make things better either. -
^^^ Then why are you constantly stating your reasons as faith if you know none of it makes ? real? Why dont you add something tangible to your arguments? We are asking a question and your answering everyone back with things you know dont answer the question? Why would you say getting rid of a belief won't stop the worlds struggles if you know it can be used both ways? Why aren't you just honest with yourself and say you have doubts?
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@BlackxChild. My issue is this. People make a case against the existence of ? by questioning the individual...and not the "deity". There are a lot of religious books out there that claim to be divine, but no one seems to think that maybe if it is the case, then it has nothing to do with our personal opinions or views about it. Whether I think of ? as Lord or...a genie that grants wishes, it is not going to make ? more or less. It doesn't change what these book say.
Maybe this is a delusion and one day you see me giving away my life savings to a preacher. Maybe you read about me in some religious cult as they partake in some horrible crime against humanity. But, does it truly mean that ? doesn't exist? It could just be that I (as well as many) mistaken on who ? is instead of an outright denial of existence. -
maestro_lungs wrote: »lol...? mad cause they had ? confused
stupid by what standard?BlackxChild wrote: »Eveyone has the right to feel how they want it doesnt prevent it from being stupid though.maestro_lungs wrote: »@Alissowack You Fall into one of these
The argument from authority. (Example: "? exists because the Bible says ? exists.")
The argument from personal experience. (Example: "? exists because I feel in my heart that ? exists.")
The argument that religion shouldn't have to logically defend its claims. (Example: "? is an entity that cannot be proven by reason or evidence.")
Or the redefining of ? into an abstract principle -- so abstract that it can't be argued against, but also so abstract that it scarcely deserves the name ? . (Example: "? is love.")
And all these arguments are incredibly weak.
Sacred books and authorities can be mistaken. I have yet to see a sacred book that doesn't have any mistakes. (The Bible, for just one example, is shot full of them.) And the feelings in people's hearts can definitely be mistaken. They are mistaken, demonstrably so, much of the time. Instinct and intuition play an important part of human understanding and experience... but they should never be treated as the final word on a subject.
? please. You dont know hebrew or Greek to know if the Bible is wrong or not or where and how it is right or wrong. You just repeating somebody elses ? cause it sounds smart to you. You dont know ? about the Bible to say what you are definitively. That fact makes everything else you are saying baseless.
How Stupid do You Sound? Why Would I Have to Know Greek or Hebrew to Know That Certain Places & Events didn't Happen & It's False! You Just wanna Believe wit all Your Heart in Something that Has No Evidence. You Basically Believe cause Everybody else does!
First of all, you only know that evidence for whatever places and events you think you are speaking of has not been presented for public consumption. Youre not in the specific and closed off upper echelons of palentology or archaeology to know what has been found or not. All you can do is trust the institutions made to filter such findings to be forthcoming. Considering undeniable human history thats not too smart. All that aside, if you took the time to learn the language of something you take time to criticize, you would see that it wasnt the authors intention to convey a linear document describing 3 dimensional events. Simply put, you dont even know what the book says dude, so your comments are pure ignorance by the very definition of the word. ? the ? you on is like a movie critic who write weekly reviews but aint never sat through an entire ? movie in his life. i dont believe ? . I get something TOTALLY different out of the texts than most people do and they attack me for that ? too. The federal government fears the movement I am in because of how we interpret scriptures from the original languages. And we are well documented vegan pacifists. So why are we a threat? Why did J.Edgar Hoover attempt to "prevent the rise of a black Messiah"? Why not just a black leader? You have no ? idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. As I told another one of your fool ass friends, you were told there is no ? by the people who made themselves ? over yo. How ? dumb are you to not realize that the same people who made up and push the ideologies of atheism are the same ones who push religious ideologies and dogmas. Hegelian dialectic. If you stop 69'ing with your own ego maybe you can look up long enough to see the forest for the trees.
What? Common Regular History Can Confirm it..I Don't need to be in The Upper Echelon of Archaeology to Know Stories in There are Changed! Do I Gotta be in The Upper Echelon of Palentology to Know There are hundreds of scriptures that have claimed to be the inspired word of ? or Jesus, all as equally legit as the ones we know today. Many of them told very conflicting messages and various men voted on which ones were to considered "divine" and accepted into the Bible based on personal and political motives. What Christians worship and believe in today was decided by men voting with no holy intervention from a ? . I Bet You do Get Something Different from The Text than Others, Your Comprehension Skills Seem to be Bad!
What is Your Movement? You don't Think I Could say the Same Thing, You Were Told There is a ? by the Same People You seek to Fight! Very Foolish! Far as Anyone Telling Me, Non Belief is as Old as Belief, They Talk about Non Believers in the Bible, So There is No Need to Tell me or Anyone not to Believe! That Doesn't Make any Sense, You're not Born Believing, This is Instilled in you by Parents.
Point in case, I Got a lil Cousin Who's Been Home Schooled by His Parents, Who are Non Religious. The Kid Doesn't Express any Belief in a Higher Power!
You Were Told there was a ? & Some Emotional Thing Happen & You Confirmed that as Proof. It a Nice Comfty Answer when You Don't Really Know or Have The Answer. You Choose ? , Cause it's Easy!
You Don't Know me. I Been Gave up & Thought Religion was for the Birds when i was Agnostic, So My Disbelief in ? has nothing to do with That. This is Common Sense for me after you Remove the Emotional Attachment & Separate What I Want From What is True! -
alissowack wrote: »@maestro_lungs How is being suggestive being authoritative? I was helping you out when I said that. I was suggesting that the Bible applies to "Christians", too. And, you are doing the same things you are accusing "Christians" are doing suggesting they are being "controlled"...appealing to the emotions. I could just as well be one of these posters that insults you every single time I post (I know, my moral conduct doesn't make ? true).
Again...I said "those of the reasons" for why you are vocal...not for those two reasons. Give me some credit, I know there are other reasons you may have. And I think I need to start making disclaimers so you stop using the "that doesn't make ? true" argument everytime I make a point.
You say belief is a major culprit, but it is not THE culprit. Getting rid of belief is not going to stop the struggles of the world...and I might as well say this now, belief is not going to make things better either.
Speaking From Authority by Assuming I Haven't Read the Bible & You Suggested it Outta Arrogance, As if You Had some secret Jewel I Didn't. It's Ok This is Typical! How am Appealing to Emotions by Alerting them they are Being Controlled? Who am I Suggesting that To? I Said it Before & I'll say Again. I Don't wanna get Rid of Belief & Believes it has a Personal Place, Just not in Govt, Medical Decisions or School! Getting Rid of Belief in Religion will not Cure Everything, But it Seems it Will Cure alot! -
maestro_lungs wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@maestro_lungs How is being suggestive being authoritative? I was helping you out when I said that. I was suggesting that the Bible applies to "Christians", too. And, you are doing the same things you are accusing "Christians" are doing suggesting they are being "controlled"...appealing to the emotions. I could just as well be one of these posters that insults you every single time I post (I know, my moral conduct doesn't make ? true).
Again...I said "those of the reasons" for why you are vocal...not for those two reasons. Give me some credit, I know there are other reasons you may have. And I think I need to start making disclaimers so you stop using the "that doesn't make ? true" argument everytime I make a point.
You say belief is a major culprit, but it is not THE culprit. Getting rid of belief is not going to stop the struggles of the world...and I might as well say this now, belief is not going to make things better either.
Speaking From Authority by Assuming I Haven't Read the Bible & You Suggested it Outta Arrogance, As if You Had some secret Jewel I Didn't. It's Ok This is Typical! How am Appealing to Emotions by Alerting them they are Being Controlled? Who am I Suggesting that To? I Said it Before & I'll say Again. I Don't wanna get Rid of Belief & Believes it has a Personal Place, Just not in Govt, Medical Decisions or School! Getting Rid of Belief in Religion will not Cure Everything, But it Seems it Will Cure alot!
How is what I told you out of arrogance? No where did I say you didn't read the Bible. That's what you wanted me to say so you could have a reason to snap back. The Bible is not a book you can just read and "get it". But you seem to think so and you feel as if you gotten all that you wanted to know out of it. You are content with your "reliable" sources; not wanting to get other perspectives on what the Bible has to say...even venture into "enemy" territory. There is never a point where I look at the Bible and I say, "Yes, I do understand it all" and I don't want to get to that point. And there is nothing "secretive" about what I suggested. I know you are familiar with the "judge and you will be judge" verse. Anybody who claims to be a believer must deal with this verse. You got "Christian" posters who have to answer to why when they post, they express judgement towards the people they post to. If I've done this to you, then I have to answer to this.
Not that I am looking for an answer for this is an e-forum, but how would you feel if someone told you that you were blind to the truth, or you were ignorant; controlled by someone and you don't feel that is the case? I don't know about you, but that does something to me. And as much as you may say this particular feeling is "natural", it is not a feeling you can let pass without first owning up to this and doing something about it. I will agree and say that religion doesn't need to be in government as some people try to suggest. And I don't suggest that "faith healing" be a medical practice or elementary schools and on make the Bible one of the subjects taught. But, it is to say that people have to have a "respect" for what is associated with belief. If not, it can be dangerous. -
@Judah.. J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were fighting against the black panthers who were a non religious group; Huey Newton was a well documented atheist. Your belief in a ? has nothing to do with it. Organized blacks is a threat, period. Again, you aint special!
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alissowack wrote: »maestro_lungs wrote: »alissowack wrote: »@maestro_lungs How is being suggestive being authoritative? I was helping you out when I said that. I was suggesting that the Bible applies to "Christians", too. And, you are doing the same things you are accusing "Christians" are doing suggesting they are being "controlled"...appealing to the emotions. I could just as well be one of these posters that insults you every single time I post (I know, my moral conduct doesn't make ? true).
Again...I said "those of the reasons" for why you are vocal...not for those two reasons. Give me some credit, I know there are other reasons you may have. And I think I need to start making disclaimers so you stop using the "that doesn't make ? true" argument everytime I make a point.
You say belief is a major culprit, but it is not THE culprit. Getting rid of belief is not going to stop the struggles of the world...and I might as well say this now, belief is not going to make things better either.
Speaking From Authority by Assuming I Haven't Read the Bible & You Suggested it Outta Arrogance, As if You Had some secret Jewel I Didn't. It's Ok This is Typical! How am Appealing to Emotions by Alerting them they are Being Controlled? Who am I Suggesting that To? I Said it Before & I'll say Again. I Don't wanna get Rid of Belief & Believes it has a Personal Place, Just not in Govt, Medical Decisions or School! Getting Rid of Belief in Religion will not Cure Everything, But it Seems it Will Cure alot!
How is what I told you out of arrogance? No where did I say you didn't read the Bible. That's what you wanted me to say so you could have a reason to snap back. The Bible is not a book you can just read and "get it". But you seem to think so and you feel as if you gotten all that you wanted to know out of it. You are content with your "reliable" sources; not wanting to get other perspectives on what the Bible has to say...even venture into "enemy" territory. There is never a point where I look at the Bible and I say, "Yes, I do understand it all" and I don't want to get to that point. And there is nothing "secretive" about what I suggested. I know you are familiar with the "judge and you will be judge" verse. Anybody who claims to be a believer must deal with this verse. You got "Christian" posters who have to answer to why when they post, they express judgement towards the people they post to. If I've done this to you, then I have to answer to this.
Not that I am looking for an answer for this is an e-forum, but how would you feel if someone told you that you were blind to the truth, or you were ignorant; controlled by someone and you don't feel that is the case? I don't know about you, but that does something to me. And as much as you may say this particular feeling is "natural", it is not a feeling you can let pass without first owning up to this and doing something about it. I will agree and say that religion doesn't need to be in government as some people try to suggest. And I don't suggest that "faith healing" be a medical practice or elementary schools and on make the Bible one of the subjects taught. But, it is to say that people have to have a "respect" for what is associated with belief. If not, it can be dangerous.
Yea You Did, when You said Perhaps if Really did your Bible Study, As if I Didn't & You Have! It has Nothing to do with Reliable Sources to Know the Bible is not One to Tell You Things on How Nature, History & Other Things Happen or occur. Why would a Book that Supposedly Inspire by a Creator to Tell you Things on how to Live Life not be something Clear that you read & Just Get? Why Would you not one to get to a Point of Full Enlightenment? Far as The Judging, You Can't Help it. I Can Point to a Bunch of scripture on Judging Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22
Christians are “of ? ;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19
The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7
Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12
False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9
You Have a Right to Disagree, But You Must state why That you are not Controlled, Blind the The Truth. I Don't Think I Ever Called you Ignorant. I'm just Showing Why A. Religion is Unhealthy & B. Why Belief in ? can be Dangerous. We don't have to Respect things that can be Fundamentally Dangerous. Such as religion & belief can & has been in Cases of Govt, Medicine and Other things that help us in knowing the world & Living Productive Happy Lives! -
@maestro_lungs. I still don't see how that suggest you didn't read the Bible. I suggested that you didn't do thorough research though. It does matter what "sources" you use. I'm willing to bet that you don't have infinite knowledge and it would be pointless to try to gain that type of knowledge. There's only so much time left in this crazy world. But you are willing to go to sources that support your perspective. You will go where it is "safe". You are biased to what you read and I am no different...I am no different.
So what those verses say what they say? Does it read in the imperative and suggest consequences? Sure. But, what does that have to do with me and my understanding of it? I believe this is how you think I see these verses. I read them and go..."Yeah, that's right!!! I'll show him who's boss; that wretched sinner!!!!"...or I use verses like those you pointed out as a front for my own insecurities like..."Since I can't have my way, I will use "? " to get my way". There are verses that suggests that Christians need to "behave" as well so to deny them is to not to consider what else the Bible has to say.
We have a right to disagree. But it is not required or mandatory in all instances to explain yourself. You question my position not because you really want to know. You see those who believe in ? as inferior to you. Whether they can explain their case or not, you have already considered them "doomed" (and yes, it's no different from what some religious people do). You already think that anybody that believes in ? is a ticking time bomb ready to explode...and not trying to make a positive contribution to the world. Respect is important. It's the difference between whether we use things for it's intended purpose or abuse it. Guns...if used for it's intended purpose...is a good technological advance. But, start using it for selfish gains and it is dangerous. So maybe "? " (or the idea of a deity) is to be respected. -
Jaded Righteousness wrote: »@Judah.. J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were fighting against the black panthers who were a non religious group; Huey Newton was a well documented atheist. Your belief in a ? has nothing to do with it. Organized blacks is a threat, period. Again, you aint special!
? please...so hoover was only after the panthers? really? nah son. and you know what EVERY OTHER leader who made strides was on, dont u? thats why u tried to pull that card. truth be told, the panthers was the easiest group to corrupt. they had to murk or isolate everyone else. and a messianic personality does not need to be in a religious group. these type of individuals usually shun religion or insist on an amplified interpretation. again, i didnt make up the language of those documents. i like how you started with a lie and then laid out some politician style ? after it lol. ? j. edgar hoover'nem were after a BLACK MESSIAH and were not fighting just against black panthers. they attacked the abrahamic groups to find individuals primarily : i.e. nation of islam, african hebrew israelites, sclc etc. the strictly militant groups were easily disbanded and replaced by the kwanzaa crowd. i live this. you full of ? . 95% of "organized blacks" have BEEN ? neutralized. ? just cause YOU relate yourself to apes (lol) and feel cuz you accept that fallacy from ? that you aint ? dont mean i gotta submit to your eurocentric fairytales. ? quit projecting your own feelings of un-specialness. not a good look my ? . -
Jaded Righteousness wrote: »@Judah.. J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were fighting against the black panthers who were a non religious group; Huey Newton was a well documented atheist. Your belief in a ? has nothing to do with it. Organized blacks is a threat, period. Again, you aint special!
? please...so hoover was only after the panthers? really? nah son. and you know what EVERY OTHER leader who made strides was on, dont u? thats why u tried to pull that card. truth be told, the panthers was the easiest group to corrupt. they had to murk or isolate everyone else. and a messianic personality does not need to be in a religious group. these type of individuals usually shun religion or insist on an amplified interpretation. again, i didnt make up the language of those documents. i like how you started with a lie and then laid out some politician style ? after it lol. ? j. edgar hoover'nem were after a BLACK MESSIAH and were not fighting just against black panthers. they attacked the abrahamic groups to find individuals primarily : i.e. nation of islam, african hebrew israelites, sclc etc. the strictly militant groups were easily disbanded and replaced by the kwanzaa crowd. i live this. you full of ? . 95% of "organized blacks" have BEEN ? neutralized. ? just cause YOU relate yourself to apes (lol) and feel cuz you accept that fallacy from ? that you aint ? dont mean i gotta submit to your eurocentric fairytales. ? quit projecting your own feelings of un-specialness. not a good look my ? .
The black panther party was the main target for COINTELPRO. The black leaders that were targeted had different religious and spiritual backgrounds, most of which conflicted, actually. H Rap Brown and Stokely Carmichael for example, were by no means black hebrew isrealites or members of the N.o.I.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIc.htm
FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover described the Panthers as:
"the greatest threat to the internal security of the country.
"Schooled in the Marxist-Leninist ideology and the teaching of Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung, its members have perpetrated numerous assaults on police officers and have engaged in violent confrontations with police throughout the country. Leaders and representatives of the Black Panther Party travel extensively all over the, United States preaching their gospel of hate and violence not only to ghetto residents, but to students in colleges, universities and high schools is well." 3
By July 1969, the Black Panthers had become the primary focus of the program, and was ultimately the target of 233 of the total authorized "Black Nationalist" COINTELPRO actions.
1. The Five Targeted Groups
The Bureau's covert action programs were aimed at five perceived threats to domestic tranquility: the "Communist Party, USA" program (1956-71) ; the "Socialist Workers Party" program (1961-69) ; the "White Hate Group" program (1964-71) ; the "Black Nationalist-Hate Group" program (1967-71) ; and the "New Left" program (1968-71).
One of the main targets was Martin, a black Christian minister which is why the term "Messiah" most likely came about. Martin was killed and the focus shifted to Newton (atheist, by the way), who associated with communist Mao. Hoover was threatened by the panthers' alliance with Mao and communists in general.
So I started out with a lie huh? -
It is not that believers really believe; it is that they are scared to admit they do not. Fearful obedience. They'll say ? is love while giving you rules to escape hell... ? makes no sense!!
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"lean not unto your own understandings" this can be taken many ways; the "don't learn a damn thing but what I say" or way #2 "your own understandings are completely jacked up let's not lean towards them"
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Poor ? .. This ? is so hurt, he just follows me around from thread to thread and cosigns whatever is said against me without even knowing or maybe caring whether what is said is right or wrong.
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^ Lol I went thru the same thing with him wen he had ? over me sonning him during debates with waterproof and judah.
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LOL....
Look at you ? .....
U MAD?
I haven't even had time to be on here much lately otherwise I would join the debates and assist others that have been sonning your ass. I been skimming the forums every once in a while seeing u constantly trying to make some type of ancient Egypt related thread of 100% copy/paste Google bs that's not new to anyone. U just on here looking for cosigners since your ? is too weak to form your own opinion on controversial topics as most free thinkers are able to do.
PROVE IT.....
you are still off topic stupid ? ......
take some of my info and oppose it.......
you will not, you sir are a coward..........
I have not backed down to anyone in this room and certainly wont back down from your stupid ass....
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Jaded Righteousness wrote: »Poor ? .. This ? is so hurt, he just follows me around from thread to thread and cosigns whatever is said against me without even knowing or maybe caring whether what is said is right or wrong.
@Jaded Righteousness....
Indeed, you both basically said the same thing.
However, your version was mad Euro-centric and quasi homosexual......
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^ Lol I went thru the same thing with him wen he had ? over me sonning him during debates with waterproof and judah.
LOL.....
You can fool the rest but you cant fool me......waterproof wrote: »ARE YOU SERIOUS @BEENWIZE, you making another thread of the same ? .......you made the same thread as your other Yahew thread, why didnt you just up your old one and continue the thread.
@JANKLOW CLOSE THIS THREAD OR MOVE IT TO HIS was Jesus refering to somebody else or whatever the ? that thread is called, The one where Brother Bambu and Judahxulu and I blew out of the water.
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Jaded Righteousness wrote: »Jaded Righteousness wrote: »@Judah.. J. Edgar Hoover and the FBI were fighting against the black panthers who were a non religious group; Huey Newton was a well documented atheist. Your belief in a ? has nothing to do with it. Organized blacks is a threat, period. Again, you aint special!
? please...so hoover was only after the panthers? really? nah son. and you know what EVERY OTHER leader who made strides was on, dont u? thats why u tried to pull that card. truth be told, the panthers was the easiest group to corrupt. they had to murk or isolate everyone else. and a messianic personality does not need to be in a religious group. these type of individuals usually shun religion or insist on an amplified interpretation. again, i didnt make up the language of those documents. i like how you started with a lie and then laid out some politician style ? after it lol. ? j. edgar hoover'nem were after a BLACK MESSIAH and were not fighting just against black panthers. they attacked the abrahamic groups to find individuals primarily : i.e. nation of islam, african hebrew israelites, sclc etc. the strictly militant groups were easily disbanded and replaced by the kwanzaa crowd. i live this. you full of ? . 95% of "organized blacks" have BEEN ? neutralized. ? just cause YOU relate yourself to apes (lol) and feel cuz you accept that fallacy from ? that you aint ? dont mean i gotta submit to your eurocentric fairytales. ? quit projecting your own feelings of un-specialness. not a good look my ? .
The black panther party was the main target for COINTELPRO. The black leaders that were targeted had different religious and spiritual backgrounds, most of which conflicted, actually. H Rap Brown and Stokely Carmichael for example, were by no means black hebrew isrealites or members of the N.o.I.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIc.htm
FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover described the Panthers as:
"the greatest threat to the internal security of the country.
"Schooled in the Marxist-Leninist ideology and the teaching of Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung, its members have perpetrated numerous assaults on police officers and have engaged in violent confrontations with police throughout the country. Leaders and representatives of the Black Panther Party travel extensively all over the, United States preaching their gospel of hate and violence not only to ghetto residents, but to students in colleges, universities and high schools is well." 3
By July 1969, the Black Panthers had become the primary focus of the program, and was ultimately the target of 233 of the total authorized "Black Nationalist" COINTELPRO actions.
1. The Five Targeted Groups
The Bureau's covert action programs were aimed at five perceived threats to domestic tranquility: the "Communist Party, USA" program (1956-71) ; the "Socialist Workers Party" program (1961-69) ; the "White Hate Group" program (1964-71) ; the "Black Nationalist-Hate Group" program (1967-71) ; and the "New Left" program (1968-71).
One of the main targets was Martin, a black Christian minister which is why the term "Messiah" most likely came about. Martin was killed and the focus shifted to Newton (atheist, by the way), who associated with communist Mao. Hoover was threatened by the panthers' alliance with Mao and communists in general.
So I started out with a lie huh?
lol...you sooooooo proved my ENTIRE point. not only did you start with a lie, but you had to find facts and try to re-frame them to fit that lie. i went on the same website you copied and pasted from. why didnt you copy and paste from the beginning ? ? dont worry...i will...
THE FBI'S COVERT ACTION PROGRAM TO DESTROY THE BLACK PANTHER PARTY
INTRODUCTION
In August 1967, the FBI initiated a covert action program -- COINTELPRO -- to disrupt and "neutralize" organizations which the Bureau characterized as "Black Nationalist Hate Groups." 1 The FBI memorandum expanding the program described its goals as:
1. Prevent a coalition of militant black nationalist groups....
2. Prevent the rise of a messiah who could unify and electrify the militant nationalist movement ... Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammad all aspire to this position....
3. Prevent violence on the part of black nationalist groups....
4. Prevent militant black nationalist groups and leaders from gaining respectability by discrediting them....
5. . . . prevent the long-range growth of militant black nationalist organizations, especially among youth. 2
The targets of this nationwide program to disrupt "militant black nationalist organizations" included groups such as the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC), the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), the Revolutionary Action Movement (RAM), and the Nation of Islam (NOI). It was expressly directed against such leaders as Martin Luther King, Jr., Stokley Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, Maxwell Stanford, and Elijah Muhammad.
The Black Panther Party (BPP) was not among the original "Black Nationalist" targets. In September 1968, however, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover described the Panthers as:
"the greatest threat to the internal security of the country.
"Schooled in the Marxist-Leninist ideology and the teaching of Chinese Communist leader Mao Tse-tung, its members have perpetrated numerous assaults on police officers and have engaged in violent confrontations with police throughout the country. Leaders and representatives of the Black Panther Party travel extensively all over the, United States preaching their gospel of hate and violence not only to ghetto residents, but to students in colleges, universities and high schools is well." 3
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SO WERE THE PANTHERS THE SOLE FOCUS "PERIOD" OR WERE THE MAIN FOCUS AFTER THE OTHER GROUPS WERE NEUTRALIZED? THEY WERE NOT WHY COINTELPRO WAS MADE AND THE PROOF U PROVIDED PROVES THAT. AND ONCE AGAIN, DISPROVE THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF BLACK MOVEMENTS THAT HAVE MADE ANY REAL CHANGES OR PROGRESS ARE BASED EITHER ON THE BIBLE, TANACH OR QURAN (OR A COMBINATION).
now gone head and try to twist more ? to support your original lie. so scientific of you... -
2. Prevent the rise of a messiah who could unify and electrify the militant nationalist movement ... Martin Luther King, Stokely Carmichael and Elijah Muhammad all aspire to this position.......
Oh look.. that looks a lot like what I already said. The Black Messiah = religious leaders such as Martin Luther King
King was a Christian
Muhammad was N.o.I.
Carmichael was neither
^^^ which is also what I said. All of these brothers have different backgrounds, some conflicting and none of them associated with your ? hebrew isrealites
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I never said the Black panthers were the sole target. I said that Hoover was fighting against the Black Panther Party and he was. The exerpt you just posted says exactly that.
The Black Panther Party (BPP) was not among the original "Black Nationalist" targets. In September 1968, however, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover described the Panthers as:
"the greatest threat to the internal security of the country.
The point was that Hoover was against black nationalists, not black hebrew isrealites or Abrahamic religions like you think. The Black Panther Party was the greatest threat to that ? and Newton was an atheist, not a black hebrew isrealite. -
you had to find facts and try to re-frame them to fit that lie. i went on the same website you copied and pasted from. why didnt you copy and paste from the beginning ? ? dont worry...i will....
I didn't re-frame anything. What I'm saying now is exactly what I said originally. Hoover fought against the black panthers and it has nothing to do with your ? religion. I didn't have to copy and paste from the beginning. My point was pretty much proven with what I did post. And if your ass looks back and reads the ? , you'll see that I posted the original targets already so what you just did there was pointless and a waste of our time -
Jaded Righteousness wrote: »you had to find facts and try to re-frame them to fit that lie. i went on the same website you copied and pasted from. why didnt you copy and paste from the beginning ? ? dont worry...i will....
I didn't re-frame anything. What I'm saying now is exactly what I said originally. Hoover fought against the black panthers and it has nothing to do with your ? religion. I didn't have to copy and paste from the beginning. My point was pretty much proven with what I did post. And if your ass looks back and reads the ? , you'll see that I posted the original targets already so what you just did there was pointless and a waste of our time
? that aint what the FBI said. thats that ? you adding to it. a hebraic term- messiah- was used and the HISTORICAL FACT is that a good 95% (AT LEAST) of the people who Hoover were fighting had faith as a foundation. Disprove that or shut the ? up making ? up and isolating the Hebrew thing you jealous ? . We have done more for humanity and Africans than any of you intellectually ? atheist muthafuckas EVER will. like i said, LIL ? the panthers were the biggest threat AFTER everybody else got killed. what you fail to realize is that A LOT of them muthafuckas JOINED US ? . we the only succesful repatriation movement of african-americans. inspired by Yah. you can say what you want but you newfangled godless ? DONT DO ? but argue and ? ride european ideologies. name 3 atheists who in the past 200 years that have done ANYTHING BENEFICIAL FOR HUMANITY. ANYTHING other than debate religion. you ? aint got nobody. jdawkins? whooptie ? doo. that ? aint did ? but TALK about how superior he feels his position is but what are the FRUITS? same with you all....start naming a long list of what atheists have accomplished with humanity and then start talking all this deragatory ? towards the spiritual realm and those who acknowledge it whether they on point behaviorally or not. who the ? yall got? tyler the creator lol? the unabomber? jesse ventura? lmbao...NIGGGGGAA PLEASE. YALL ATHEISTS ARE GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT ARGUMENTS. and for the last time ? i dont have a religion.
