Did Jay-Z have any real fans prior to the Blueprint?
Options
Knives Amilli
Members Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've been thinking about this for a minute. Even though I was only 13 and didn't ? with internet forums at all, I don't recall anybody riding for Jay like that. None of that Best Rapper alive or KONY ? .
And frankly, why would they have? Before Blueprint1, Jay was really just that ? you could depend on for a hot summer jam (Hard Knock life, Money Ain't A Thang, Originator 99, Can I Get A, Big Pimpin, Give It To Me, etc.). X was the King of New York and it's biggest star, Ja was next in line, and this is just for the couple of years leading up to BP1. Go even further back, Pun, Nas, Diddy and Mase, Mobb Deep, The Wu, all either overshadowed Jay or were just as popular.
You might say, "But, But, Reasonable Doubt!!!!" But even the hardest of Jay Stans has to admit that RD is a revisionist classic (which isn't as big a deal as people want it to be. It Was Written, to an extent Illmatic, and if you wanna go out of genre, Pinkerton by Weezer are all revisionist classics) and didn't get its truly proper accolades till way after it's release.
But when the Blueprint comes around, Jay got considerably lucky. The beef with Nas puts him into the spotlight among hip hop heads who were probably a little ambivalent about him.
The Soul sample led production gave the album gravitas. IZZO was another commercial hit, further soldifying Jay's status among general consumers (plus the Nas beef actually got the attention of non-hip hop heads which was another plus).
And finally, the "personalness" of Blueprint quieted some of Jay's naysayers about his lack of subject matter AND won some fans over for finally opening up (fans like personal albums).
From an industry standpoint as well, Jay couldn't have gotten luckier. X had released the first dud of his career ( the mediocre The Great Depression, which still sold pretty well) and was starting to go full ? mode.Ja was becoming fully commercial and the rest of the NY scene wasn't doing much (or dead in Pun's case).
So unless I missed something here, I think it's safe to say Jay pretty much owes his modern success to Blueprint. Funnily enough, TI is pretty much at the exact same point Jay was prior to Blueprint (a consistent hitmaker without a universal classic).
And frankly, why would they have? Before Blueprint1, Jay was really just that ? you could depend on for a hot summer jam (Hard Knock life, Money Ain't A Thang, Originator 99, Can I Get A, Big Pimpin, Give It To Me, etc.). X was the King of New York and it's biggest star, Ja was next in line, and this is just for the couple of years leading up to BP1. Go even further back, Pun, Nas, Diddy and Mase, Mobb Deep, The Wu, all either overshadowed Jay or were just as popular.
You might say, "But, But, Reasonable Doubt!!!!" But even the hardest of Jay Stans has to admit that RD is a revisionist classic (which isn't as big a deal as people want it to be. It Was Written, to an extent Illmatic, and if you wanna go out of genre, Pinkerton by Weezer are all revisionist classics) and didn't get its truly proper accolades till way after it's release.
But when the Blueprint comes around, Jay got considerably lucky. The beef with Nas puts him into the spotlight among hip hop heads who were probably a little ambivalent about him.
The Soul sample led production gave the album gravitas. IZZO was another commercial hit, further soldifying Jay's status among general consumers (plus the Nas beef actually got the attention of non-hip hop heads which was another plus).
And finally, the "personalness" of Blueprint quieted some of Jay's naysayers about his lack of subject matter AND won some fans over for finally opening up (fans like personal albums).
From an industry standpoint as well, Jay couldn't have gotten luckier. X had released the first dud of his career ( the mediocre The Great Depression, which still sold pretty well) and was starting to go full ? mode.Ja was becoming fully commercial and the rest of the NY scene wasn't doing much (or dead in Pun's case).
So unless I missed something here, I think it's safe to say Jay pretty much owes his modern success to Blueprint. Funnily enough, TI is pretty much at the exact same point Jay was prior to Blueprint (a consistent hitmaker without a universal classic).
Comments
-
I can feel where you coming from. Well said. Makes me wanna look into this more. I can honestly say I saw nothing more of Jay than a self-promotin bastid for a period of time.
-
DMX was never the king of New York
Even with the amount of records he sold.
Vol. 2 cemented Jay's status. -
DMX, and Nas were both better than Jay musically and on the mic skill for skill
it's just both of them fell off musically as did Jay, but Jay kept in the limelight with business side of things
see if Nas was married to Beyonce and worth 500 mil we'd be calling him the greatest rapper alive even if he was putting out mediocre albums, same with DMX
Jayz last hot album was the black album ever since than he been fallen off musically, only jay z stans and fly by night hip hop fans be hyping Jay up musically
Jayz is a great businessman, if he aint have side ventures and wasnt married to the baddest chick in the game nobody wud be talking about him right now -
DMX was never the king of New York
Even with the amount of records he sold.
Vol. 2 cemented Jay's status.
c/s...x and ja rule never have and obviously never will ? with Jay lyrically...and remember NY hip hop scene has for the most part always been about lyrics...real talk...? slept on reasonable doubt when it first came out and vol.1 was just too commercial and poppy (save for a few songs)...vol. 2 was when Jay was really crowned.... -
DMX was never the king of New York
Even with the amount of records he sold.
Vol. 2 cemented Jay's status.
? . Admitedlly Jay ran 98 just off the strength of Hard Knock Life, but X would have the last laugh with " ...And Then There Was X" which sold just as much as Vol. 2 and capped off the 3 headed monster of "It's Dark and Hell is Hot" and "Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood". Jay never released 3 highly successful records in a row on the scale that X did. Plus Ruff Ryders was running ? and who was the frontman of that? -
Oh, and Jay had fans. To clarify.
-
Jay is a rapper who use to pic great beats, but if u strip down his music content there's nothing there....he dont get in to politics, he aint raw, he has the worst track record when it comes to singles...his music mainly consists of money, ballin, sex and hoes....he's just biggysmllaz without the gun talk
DMX was a breath of fresh air, he was spitting that raw ? , putting out raw hard singles, he was also very creative with his songs, and had alot of substance...
Nas better than both of them, but just picks wack beats -
c/s...x and ja rule never have and obviously never will ? with Jay lyrically...and remember NY hip hop scene has for the most part always been about lyrics...real talk...? slept on reasonable doubt when it first came out and vol.1 was just too commercial and poppy (save for a few songs)...vol. 2 was when Jay was really crowned....
Never said Ja or X were better rappers. But they were more popular.
And people, Forawhile, Vol. 2 was Jay's only hugely successful, SoldBETTERTHANEVERY1ELSES project. Everything else he did sold just as well and was received as well as his other NY contemporaries. -
The Smooth One wrote: »Oh, and Jay had fans. To clarify.
? fans? or people who just ? with him? Cuz there's a difference... -
? got on the jay bandwagon when he announced his retirement...great marketing move
also being beyonces boyfriend, he was gonna stay in the magazines all day everyday
the whole def jam ceo thing helped him stay in the news, then his comeback and him ? with wite rockstars like coldplay, which won him even more fly by night hip hop fans
history will a judge a man and jayz will be seen as a commercial dickrode rapper.
its funny though how jayz has overtaken biggy as the second greatest rapper on online/tv polls behind pac...
it use to be whos the best big or pac
now it's who's the best jay or pac -
Yea ? fans... I wouldn't know how you define such a thing. But they were out there.
-
Knives Amilli wrote: »? . Admitedlly Jay ran 98 just off the strength of Hard Knock Life, but X would have the last laugh with " ...And Then There Was X" which sold just as much as Vol. 2 and capped off the 3 headed monster of "It's Dark and Hell is Hot" and "Flesh of My Flesh, Blood of My Blood". Jay never released 3 highly successful records in a row on the scale that X did. Plus Ruff Ryders was running ? and who was the frontman of that?
I would not exactly say all that, The BP 1, then BP2, then The Black Album, those were 3 "single", Commercial, and Critically successful Albums. DMX never in his career had all three of those on one album -
"If it wasn't for me, ? still be dying for hoes, and I hate when a ? sit back admiring yours"
-
the point is, Jay Z has never put out a dud album. Most people will compare an album to RD,BP1, or TBA. but those are some of the greatest rap albums of the last 20 years. you have to look at how good the individual album is and all of JayZ's are good
DMX had the same appeal as 50 Cent, he was the hot rapper at the time which got him more fame, which sold him more records, but then the appeal began to unravel.
Also, Jay Z highest selling record to date, is still Vol 2, BO and RD are his most critical successes and BP3 is his highest "singles" success. I wouldnt say BP1 is the reason for his success now, i would say it is more to The Black Album. I live in the South, and if you ask anyone about Jay Z, they will name "dirt off your shoulder,99 Problems, or Encore" before they name any thing else -
I havent seen any Internet poll where its Jay Z vs Pac
they are mostly all those EM stans who vote on them and have Pac VS Em -
dude are you serious, you just sound like a hater
Kingdom Come was underrated, AG was the best album of 2007(and probably one of the best of the last 5 years) and BP3 is a great album.
and what do you mean, "no body would be talking about him". he just released his most successful "singles" album ever. -
Jay Z formed his jigga warrior cult in 1998 when he sold he soul for riches.
before that he was a non factor. even those deep ny heads know that jay z was a local yokel in the early 90s. im not gonna front and act like i knew about the ? since 89. i first saw jay z in 1996 like mostly everyone else as foxy's ? boy in the aint no ? video. dead presidents video used to be on rapcity and cant knock the hustle used to be on rotation in mtv but i always turned because the production on rd is boring. i didnt start liking jay z until that ill be good video by fox and he killed it. around that time i started getting heavy with the clue/ss/and cutmaster c tapes in early 97 and jay z songs used to be all over them and he impressed me. he wasnt deep or lyrical like nas but i liked flawless, effortless flow. jay z used to have bars for days with panoramic conciousness and quick wit that alot of the new mc's at that time werent bringing. songs like who ya wit, peoples court, big momma thing, flex freestyle, murder INC, ur a customer and freestyles with his sauce made me a fan of jay z in 97 and when vol 1 came out i used to take that tape with me to school everyday. 98 rolls around and jay z drops streets is watching and he still killing it. he formed a loyal fan base. he was going from regional to nationwide. when he saw the success of DMX and Puffy he couldnt help his greedy heart and sold his soul to def jam. when i heard money aint a thing for the first time in may 98 i was dissapointed. jay z switched his persona from introspective hustler music to money, cars, ? and drugs. vol 2 was a dissapointment. he sold out his core fanbase. ever since then its been ? jay z -
LOL@ DMX ever being the King of New York, and another LMAO@ Him being nicer than Jay on the mic, DMX first album was classic......nothing else he recorded was even close to ? with that.
-
Jay is GOAT
-
after big died ny wanted him to carry the crown then he dropped vol. 1 which was mostly an attempt to get radio spins....then he dropped that streets is watching movie and hard knock life...then went on tour with an all rap tour no rnb....and then he took crown
-
Knives Amilli wrote: »Never said Ja or X were better rappers. But they were more popular.
And people, Forawhile, Vol. 2 was Jay's only hugely successful, SoldBETTERTHANEVERY1ELSES project. Everything else he did sold just as well and was received as well as his other NY contemporaries.
the argument in this case can only be made for x imo...ja rule was featured on vol. 2 before he even released "holla, holla" more or less his debut lp...ja rule had only one lp by the time bp hit so he couldn't have been more popular and is out of this argument...x played his cards right and rode the momentum of his debut to release his second album in the same year...both went platinum...at this time jay had 3 platinum albums and 2 classics under his belt (rd and bp are not his only classic albums...dont forget vol. 2)...even if jay was not selling more than x, he was ahead by leaps and bounds lyrically... -
Jay is G.O.A.T.
-
I was a hard-core fan of Jay before Blueprint. Back then it was the Wu, LOX, Jay and BIG for me. Blueprint was just a dope album by one of my fav EmCee's at the time. I remember cats used to check out the Source for critic's ratings back then like it was the hiphop bible and blueprint had 5 mics.
-
kingdome come, American gangsta and bp3 are wack
only jayz stans and fly by hip hop fans will like them ( the type who dont even listen or heard of rd or bp)
biggy>jayz
pac>jayz
nas> jayz
its a sad state we're in when we only have o look forwards to jayz albums -
You are a straight up hater. Haters are like shunned females to me and are even worse than stans. Anyone with a lyrical IQ back then knew JayZ was way superior to DMX. DMX was just like the 50 cent at the time. He came out like a storm and that Ruff Ryder's Anthem had everybody jumping. American Gangsta and BP 3 are far from wack. AG is actually one of the most critically acclaimed albums Jay has and BP3 may not be a great album but it is a solid album. GTFOH with that "it's a sad state we're in when we only have to look forward to Jay Z albums". If all the other rappers from back then had stayed on their grind with their music and paper, they would still be relevant.
EDIT: This is a reply to the post above this.
