Lets talk about Isreal (Jewish posters please holla)
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I say just gives the jews isreal its more important to christians and jews anyways and let palestine have unconditional statehood no UN mandate for 10 years or no one can sell them weapons type ? .Give them jerusalem and let palestine do their thing.If they wanna keep going at after that then so ? be it.
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Let me Tell ya ? something.Since Canaan was broken down into Judá,Israel.Jerusalem and other little cities ? been beefing.Since the beginning of time.Let´s stop fronting and acting like that ? was peaceful before the english was there.
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Ok, I think that I understand what you’re saying. I’m disappointed in America, but I don’t hate America. But I do hate what it is becoming.
No, you’re somewhat distorting things. The original question was: why are they are our close allies. You yourself repeated this exact same question to me. The point of the question is to ask why we are so unconditionally supported to Israel. I made the point that they are bad allies. That is relevant to the question at hand. Why have such close and undying allies when they themselves are not so friendly towards us? And that is not mentioning the fact that they can present real hazards to our own safety and well-being.
again, i think the China/NK example stands. China gets continually embarrassed by NK and yet apparently desperately latches on to NK. that said, i am not sure that i would agree that a) either the US or China behaves DESPERATELY or b) that Israel "can stand on its own two and doesn’t need America."My point was that since North Korea (the inferior power) needs China (the superior power), it makes sense for North Korea to latch on to China. However, since Israel (the inferior power) “needs” the United States (the superior power), it would make sense for Israel to latch on to the United States, but imho, I don’t even think Israel really wants or needs America as much as we think. In fact, the roles are reversed. America (the superior power) apparently desperately latches on to Israel (the inferior power). That essentially is odd and nonsensical-
Ok, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree for now for the sake of sanity? Besides, I’m tired.
does this article not imply that Stalin's support of Israel was essentially a cynical ploy to gain advantages against Western nations? because if so, i don't know how much that counts. and in fact, it implies that the Cold War alliance is valid: Israel veered toward America because they saw them as a legitimate ally and then kept it up for the duration of the Cold War. even if you think the USSR gets points for the early days, i have a theory that all those wars where Israel fought nations bristling with hardware from the USSR are going to have a bigger effect on Israel's opinion than thinking "once Stalin wasn't ? to us."C’mon. I really don’t want to go down this road because it doesn’t even truly address the main argument at hand imo. Let me just clarify. My original point was that Stalin and the Soviet Union initially supported Israel. I made that point to counter your point that America and Israel are allies because they were Cold War allies and that Cold War alliances were apparently so strong and stables that they lasted through the decades to our present times. The fact that the Soviet Union later reversed their support for Israel and the fact that many other alliances (some of which I cited) fell through, at the least, complicates your theory.
I agree partly, but I still think that these alliances that we are speaking of are more “flimsy” and coerced than you, I suspect, think. As for Stalin’s influence, if you are speaking of today, I’m not sure that he is as such a bad taste in the mouth of Israel as you, I suspect, think. Israel has generally gotten over ? . I think that they can get and may have gotten over Stalin as well.
I doubt it. I think that it’s the other way around. The fact that most (certainly not all) people think that it’s sensible is a reflection of the misinformed and/or disingenuous politicians, pundits, and “journalists” that are telling them that it is sensible.
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Swiffness! wrote: »
What's that, you say? The country essentially founded by a slave-owner that obsessed by the concept of liberty has some stark differences between its ideals and its actions? Shocking!
Ok? Yes, I know the difference, and I'm well-aware of the discrepancy. But a nation should practice what it preaches. America has not and does not practice what it preaches. And this is largely the reason why America is currently in so much trouble.
I applaud and appreciate your sarcasm; I really do. But what you are speaking of is more of an oversimplification of America’s history. And this oversimplification is unfortunately a popular belief.Swiffness! wrote: »Really, how many countries out there espouse "freedom and human rights" with fully clean hands and no hypocrisy? (I love to hear ppl praise Chavez like he hasn't enthusiastically supported literally every regime threatened by the Arab Spring) Maybe a couple of Europe's smaller socialist democracies? Then on the flip side, every brutal dictatorship ever always talks on ton of ? about how they have so much respect for "human rights". Seriously, even North Korea has the ? to do this. "The great leader General Kim Jong Il said that human rights are the inviolable and inalienable rights of the people in our country" haha, right
I never said “fully clean and hypocrisy.” That’s impossible. I’m not sure about Venezuela, but I’m sure about North Korea. But as for the United States of America, I hold my country to higher standards, in part because I know that these are standards that can and have been met, at least, at times.Swiffness! wrote: »America needs to do better, but its always needed to do better. At least it kind of tries though.
Doesn’t try hard enough imo.
well...Perhaps that is debatable, but I honestly don’t think so. Israel has received American training (the best) and support/supplies. Israel is nuclear capable. Israel has never lost a war and has destroyed many of its Arab neighbor-enemies (even Iran, the big talker, is scared) throughout several wars and conflicts. This adds up to plenty of experience. Israel has a powerful air force. And most of all, its military is self-sufficient and self-reliant. Shall I even mention the Mossad?
--Israel receiving American training and support/supplies is not the best argument that Israel is self-sufficient;
--Israel can't really acknowledge that publicly, but being nuclear-capable seems more like a last-ditch resort that something that keeps them truly self-sufficient;
--Israel also has never lost a war because, in at least one case (1973), we directly saved their ass. and while they DO have plenty of experience (which always matters to me), it's actually been quite some time until they kicked some ass in an undisputed way in a war. do i think anyone, to include Iran, really wants to fight them? PROBABLY not, but...
--their air force is awesome, but this is not without its limitations;
--i don't think their military is as self-reliant as you think, considering the amount of hardware they get from us.
--Israel has received American training and support/supplies. Their training wheels came off a long time ago. Presently, I think that they are self-sufficient.
--We’re going to have to disagree. I think that the fact that Israel is nuclear-capable (presumably) means that it has reached the status of being a major world power, but even without it, I think they are more than capable of defeating the likes of Iran. I think that Israel’s nuclear-capability is more of a deterrent (as in “you don’t want to go to war with us”) than an actual doomsday weapon to use as a last resort if that is what you are saying.
i guess you mean "like no other nations are doing RIGHT NOW?" of course, we're also saying this like the US is intending to ? innocent civilians (certainly debatable) and that the wars are ONLY for self-benefit.But the point that you’re missing is that America is an imperialistic nation whose greed is so unbridled that we’re willing to ? innocent civilians and start unnecessary wars for self-benefit like no other nations are doing.
Right now? Yes. Canada seems to be content with not meddling in the Middle East. And surprise, surprise, Canada doesn’t have to deal with its own 9/11. Perhaps these two facts are linked? I’m neither saying nor believing that the U.S. intends to ? innocent civilians, but I am repulsed and shocked that we are tbh. The wars are not only for self-benefit? Ok that’s certainly plausible. Ok, how about: the wars are mostly for self-benefit?
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it doesn't make it right, but it makes me wonder why it's only a problem when the US does it.You can’t say that other countries are doing the same because that’s not really true. And even if it was true, that doesn’t mean that it’s right (not saying that you’re saying this but you seem to be implying it). Why would it?
It isn’t and shouldn’t be a problem only when the United States does it (a similar criticism is shared against France and what they are doing in Mali currently), but I guess that we are “scapegoated” not only because we are the major power of the world but also because we’re conspicuously and repeatedly all over the Middle East with a Superman cape on even though we play the super villain as well.
well, to start, you bashed the wars the US fights... and Canada is typically there taking part in those wars. their role in Iraq was a little nuanced, but Afghanistan clearly saw a lot of Canadian action. as for drones, well, some of these NATO nations are going to let the US do their work for them.I wouldn’t know about Canada, so school me. I’m sure it’s nowhere as bad as America though. I don’t see Canadian troops bombing Pakistan and flying drones around Iran.
It almost seems as if you are downplaying the fact that their role in Iraq was “a little nuanced.” Canada is not as war-hawkish as America, and as long as they stay smart, they will never be. We apparently can’t realize that it only unnecessarily hurts us in the long run. Canada would’ve never committed troops to fight and die in America’s rash and contrived war. I chalk Canada’s strong presence in Afghanistan up to the whole 9/11 wave that was going on during the time. How would Canada look like not supporting its closest ally immediately after the tragic event of 9/11? Pretty bad. About NATO, I wouldn’t know too much about that.
and yet there isn't much actual criticism for Cuban hypocrisy, which was supposedly the point here. also note that i believe Cuba has refused US assistance as well for the same reasons. and do i have to call absolute ? on this "the US only helps people where there's oil?" because i am pretty sure we can find plenty of humanitarian missions in non-oil-producing nations. wouldn't want to get in the way of praising Cuba, though!Ok, Cuba is a bad example. I guess I was just thinking about America’s petty and outdated beef with Cuba – a stupid beef that hurts both nations. When Cuba sends doctors to help you after 9/11, and you refuse them because of a 50 year old grudge, you look stupid and perhaps “un-American?” and Cuba, on the other hand, ends up looking “American” since America is all about being the Superman of the world’s unfortunate (i.e., the world’s unfortunate who reside only in particular areas in the Middle East where there’s oil, and so that excludes Sudan, Kosovo, etc.)
Ok then, I stand corrected. ? Cuba. If I ever said that America helps those who have oil, I probably meant that America actively fights for those who have oil. If I am wrong here as well, please educate me (no sarcasm).
right, and when i say "here's why," your response is typically "but they also do bad things." i presumed from the jump that we all knew Israel did things that make our lives difficult.But wasn’t the original question about “why America supports Israel?” I have no problems changing the topic to “why America shouldn’t support Israel,” but I was just responding to the original topic.
Now you’re just oversimplifying my argument. It’s not just that Israel does “bad things,” which is obvious, especially since all countries do bad things to some extent. I have also mentioned various other more important ideas/facts that suggest or explain that Israel is not a suitable close and unconditional American ally. Apparently you’ve already forgotten them?
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i'm just going to say it again: if you ask why they're our allies, i am going to give you reasons why that's the case (see above). i don't think i said i was going to defend them against every claim or even that i rate them as such a great ally. in fact, if you're reading this thread i don't know why you think i am arguing the latter.No, you’re somewhat distorting things. The original question was: why are they are our close allies. You yourself repeated this exact same question to me. The point of the question is to ask why we are so unconditionally supported to Israel. I made the point that they are bad allies.
i mean, you're revisiting this almost a couple of weeks later; you COULD just let it go.Ok, then we’ll just have to agree to disagree for now for the sake of sanity? Besides, I’m tired.
the point that i made/am making is that when you have that kind of relationship for decades, it ends up meaning something. it's not that Israel isn't "over Stalin": i'm sitting here talking about what the post-Stalin USSR did for decades and you're telling me "well, once Stalin was their friend." but this is not actually about Stalin.I agree partly, but I still think that these alliances that we are speaking of are more “flimsy” and coerced than you, I suspect, think. As for Stalin’s influence, if you are speaking of today, I’m not sure that he is as such a bad taste in the mouth of Israel as you, I suspect, think. Israel has generally gotten over ? . I think that they can get and may have gotten over Stalin as well.
of course, journalists and pundits aren't politicians. so if they get people worked up in one direction or another, people may respond to that. what a concept!I doubt it. I think that it’s the other way around. The fact that most (certainly not all) people think that it’s sensible is a reflection of the misinformed and/or disingenuous politicians, pundits, and “journalists” that are telling them that it is sensible.
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changing it to the past tense is, in fact, incorrect. Israel CURRENTLY RECEIVES American support and supplies. see also: all that aid people are going to ? about, and what it gets spent on.--Israel has received American training and support/supplies. Their training wheels came off a long time ago. Presently, I think that they are self-sufficient.
first off, being nuclear-capable does not make you a major world power. North Korea is not a major world power. Pakistan is not a major world power. and there are other countries who probably could make themselves nuclear-capable if they REALLY wanted to.--We’re going to have to disagree. I think that the fact that Israel is nuclear-capable (presumably) means that it has reached the status of being a major world power, but even without it, I think they are more than capable of defeating the likes of Iran. I think that Israel’s nuclear-capability is more of a deterrent (as in “you don’t want to go to war with us”) than an actual doomsday weapon to use as a last resort if that is what you are saying.
second, i am not calling it a doomsday weapon. what i am saying is that Israel's unadmitted nuclear weapons are basically meant to imply to people "even if you can destroy us through some means and you REALLY want to do it regardless of the cost, we'll still be able to get you with nuclear weapons almost from beyond the grave." but what i am also saying is that they can't use a nuclear weapon to solve every single problem they have, which is why having a nuclear weapon doesn't make you self-sufficient.
and what makes you so convinced they're so capable of defeating Iran? they could barely handle LEBANON. i don't think Iran wants to fight a war with them because it's a cost/benefit thing. but Israel's not going to whip their ass in six days.
my "right now" point is the way you make it seem like only the US has EVER done this stuff. but consider again that countries like Canada don't meddle in the Middle East because the US is there meddling for them. and hey, if NATO gets pulled into something -let's say, defending Turkey if some Syrian fiasco goes down- then you might just have Canada.Right now? Yes. Canada seems to be content with not meddling in the Middle East. And surprise, surprise, Canada doesn’t have to deal with its own 9/11. Perhaps these two facts are linked? I’m neither saying nor believing that the U.S. intends to ? innocent civilians, but I am repulsed and shocked that we are tbh. The wars are not only for self-benefit? Ok that’s certainly plausible. Ok, how about: the wars are mostly for self-benefit?
wars are always going to have something to do with self-benefit. but i think it's pretty convenient for everyone to ascribe the worst possible motivations to people/countries when that happens to dovetail with their arguments.
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in this case, i am talking less about international opinion and more about people raging about America from America on the internet. you can always find SOMETHING to legitimately criticize about things America (or anyone else) does.It isn’t and shouldn’t be a problem only when the United States does it (a similar criticism is shared against France and what they are doing in Mali currently), but I guess that we are “scapegoated” not only because we are the major power of the world but also because we’re conspicuously and repeatedly all over the Middle East with a Superman cape on even though we play the super villain as well.
well, to start, you bashed the wars the US fights... and Canada is typically there taking part in those wars. their role in Iraq was a little nuanced, but Afghanistan clearly saw a lot of Canadian action. as for drones, well, some of these NATO nations are going to let the US do their work for them.I wouldn’t know about Canada, so school me. I’m sure it’s nowhere as bad as America though. I don’t see Canadian troops bombing Pakistan and flying drones around Iran.
i'm not "downplaying" it, i'm presenting it like it is. it's nuanced because they did things that ultimately assisted us in prosecuting the war without sending all the men directly to the war like we did. you might say this counts as them sitting it out, but this is why i call it "nuanced" as opposed to cut and dry. and yes, they DID have military personnel in Iraq in various units who could have fought and died. whoops!It almost seems as if you are downplaying the fact that their role in Iraq was “a little nuanced.” Canada is not as war-hawkish as America, and as long as they stay smart, they will never be. We apparently can’t realize that it only unnecessarily hurts us in the long run. Canada would’ve never committed troops to fight and die in America’s rash and contrived war. I chalk Canada’s strong presence in Afghanistan up to the whole 9/11 wave that was going on during the time. How would Canada look like not supporting its closest ally immediately after the tragic event of 9/11? Pretty bad. About NATO, I wouldn’t know too much about that.
plus, don't tell me that i'm downplaying their nuanced role and then say, "eh, 9/11 9/11." the US bombs Pakistan because of 9/11, but it's a Big ? Deal that the US does this. but Canada's nicer, so who cares? the question was if Canada "violates what they preach" by taking part in the war in Afghanistan. don't wave it away because you want to give Canada a pass.
the NATO point is simply this: of the member nations, the US brings a lot more to the table than most (if not all) of them. sometimes this means they ride for free on our largesse. i have no doubt that these drones, for whatever reason they get flown, benefit NATO as a whole on some level.
i'm not convinced Afghanistan is filled with oil.Ok then, I stand corrected. ? Cuba. If I ever said that America helps those who have oil, I probably meant that America actively fights for those who have oil. If I am wrong here as well, please educate me (no sarcasm).
apparently you've forgotten that we both know this, so i'm not defending the bad actions, i'm explaining why they might be our ally in SPITE of them? i thought that was the point.Apparently you’ve already forgotten them? -
since he's just died, i'd like to shout this quote out: i know some people who seem oddly impressed with Chavez and yet are simultaneously huge fans of the Arab Spring. i just shake my damn head.Swiffness! wrote: »(I love to hear ppl praise Chavez like he hasn't enthusiastically supported literally every regime threatened by the Arab Spring)
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http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/5416-israeli-security-forces-spray-raw-sewage-at-palestinian-homes
Israeli security forces spray raw sewage at Palestinian homes
Israeli forces have sprayed Palestinian homes in the village of Nabi Saleh with raw sewage as a punishment for organising weekly protests against the Apartheid Wall built on occupied West Bank land. Human rights watchdog B'Tselem published a video showing Israel's armoured tanker trucks fitted with "water cannons" which spray the foul fluid at Palestinian protesters.
B'Tselem said in a statement that the Israeli forces also targeted all the houses of the village with the sewage. The powerful jet broke windows and caused a great deal of damage in the houses, said the Israeli organisation. "It also causes environmental damage," it pointed out. The non-lethal weapon has been added to the Israelis' armoury for crowd control, said B'Tselem, even though the video shows clearly that it is also used against Palestinian-owned property.
The Israeli military has been looking for an alternative to tear gas canisters for crowd control, claiming that the Palestinians now know how to cope with the gas and its effects.
--Israel continues to be run by terrorists. -
^^^^^^^^Basically...all this other stuff is just ? pontificating and smokescreens designed to take focus off that point
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http://www.jpost.com/National-News/Bethlehem-rioters-set-fire-to-pictures-of-Obama-306831
Palestinians in Bethlehem set fire to pictures of US President Barack Obama on Monday, saying he was not welcome in their city.
Scores of protesters gathered near Manger Square and threw shoes at a US diplomatic vehicle as it arrived at the scene as part of preparations for Obama’s visit to the city later this week.
The protesters also set fire to signs posted in the city earlier this week reminding Obama that Palestinians still don’t have 3G communications technology.
Similar anti-Obama demonstrations are expected to take place in Ramallah and other Palestinian cities in the coming days.
Palestinian Authority policemen did not intervene to stop the Bethlehem demonstrators from burning the pictures of Obama.
The protesters also trampled on Obama’s picture, chanting, “America is the head of the snake.”
“We came here today to tell Obama that we don’t want 3G in Palestine,” said Samir Odeh, a Fatah activist in Bethlehem. “We want a state, the release of prisoners and an end to settlement construction.
We also want to see our refugees return to their homes.”
Waving a shoe in his hand, Fayez Mansour of the Dehaishe refugee camp near Bethlehem said that Obama was not welcome in the city.
“We won’t receive Obama with flowers and a red carpet,” he declared. “We will receive him with shoes. We want to tell America that we hate you and you have no place here. We don’t want to see Obama in Palestine. He is coming to save Israel. He does not have anything to offer our people.”
Another protester who asked not to be identified said many Palestinians in the city were opposed to Obama’s visit, “especially since he has made it clear that he is coming as a pilgrim.”
The Palestinians, he added, have sent a message to Obama that he is not welcome in the Palestinian territories.
----LOL......it looks like Obama is just as hated as Bush is over there. For good reason. -
Didn't the Isreali gvt also unknowingly give birth control to immigrants from Ethiopia and other Beta Isreal groups?
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U_Kno_C_Me wrote: »Didn't the Isreali gvt also unknowingly give birth control to immigrants from Ethiopia and other Beta Isreal groups?
No, they KNOWINGLY gave unwanted birth control shots and pills to groups who are not Ashkenazi Jews.....and Obama, being the slave to Israel he is, still sucked up to Israel major today. Just when I thought I couldn't lose any more respect for Obama, today happened lol
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kingblaze84 wrote: »U_Kno_C_Me wrote: »Didn't the Isreali gvt also unknowingly give birth control to immigrants from Ethiopia and other Beta Isreal groups?
No, they KNOWINGLY gave unwanted birth control shots and pills to groups who are not Ashkenazi Jews.....and Obama, being the slave to Israel he is, still sucked up to Israel major today. Just when I thought I couldn't lose any more respect for Obama, today happened lol
What did you expect him to do, say "This is a very nice country btw yall are ? evil"? They're kissing each other's ? , that's what close allies do during a fancy event like this. For someone who always wants diplomacy you don't seem to know how diplomacy works. Did you read the welcome speeches he got:
Mr. President, The United States became great by giving. Not by taking. (LOL) Your generosity enabled freedom to prevail all over the world. A world without America's leadership, without It's moral voice, would be a poorer world. A world without your friendship, will invite aggression against Israel
Mr. President, Your story reflects the history of the world as it is. Your vision reflects the future as it should be. You have offered the American people and the peoples of the world a leadership of vision, a leadership of values. A leadership dedicated to a brighter tomorrow.
In times of peace, in times of war, your support for Israel is unshakeable. You enabled our security in an extraordinary way, to project strength. To strive for peace. Strengthening security is the best way to strengthen peace.
We long to see end the conflict with the Palestinians. To see the Palestinians enjoy freedom and prosperity in their own state. We extend our hand in peace to all the countries of the Middle East.
Being surprised by Obama praising Israel during the opening hours of a state visit to Israel is ? . Being surprised by Palestinians burning a photo of the U.S President is ? . This ain't no damn vacation (well, the trip to Jordan is - Petra is ? awesome) Obama has real objectives to aim for here, like raising his approval rating in Israel from -7%, like convincing the Israeli public that contrary to the impression he gave in the Cairo speech he understands that Israel doesn't just exist "because of the Holocaust" but because there's been Jews living there for 4,000 ? years, like warning the Israel public that they're headed down the wrong path, like creating the leverage for a change on settlements, like giving Kerry a prayer to restart peace talks, like reminding them bombing Iran is a bad idea; that said ? off Iran. (btw actually talk to an Israeli sometime and ask them what they think about bombing Iran, you'll be surprised) Is he gonna accomplish all that? Hell no, he'll be lucky if he can convince them he wasn't born in Kenya. Worth a shot tho.
But of course, Secretary of State KingBlaze wants Obama to step onto the tarmac at Ben-Gurion and announce that Israel is evil and they shouldn't exist and weed should be legalized and taxed; Free Mumia. Brilliant. lol ? outta here. And for the record, Palestinian protesters would still burn photos of President KingBlaze, even after he hits Tel Aviv w/ drones and cruise missiles LOL.
I'm tired of Israel's ? too, but I at least understand Israel....and the Palestinians, aka those guys that unload a proverbial uzi in their foot at every opportunity. You always treat Israel like its this Rick Rude pro-wrestling heel, like the only opinions one can possibly hold about them are "? Israel" or "Israel can do no wrong", like it wasn't Israeli journalists that exposed the Depo-Provera crime on Israeli TV.
You need to read more Haaretz. The Israeli Left is giddy about Obama's visit:
Obama is an American president, so he will speak in a reserved manner. Barack Obama is a civilized man, so he will be polite. But the message concealed in President Obama’s speech in the International Convention Center in Jerusalem (Binyanei Hauma) will be clear − Israelis, wake up. Don’t let the freedom state you’ve established with so much labor drown in the swamp of the occupation.
Don’t let your Jewish Athens become a Sparta of eternal war. Don’t delude yourselves that you’re an island. You’re not. You must find a reasonable way to coexist with the Arabs surrounding you and with the Palestinians you still rule. -
Swiffness! wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »U_Kno_C_Me wrote: »Didn't the Isreali gvt also unknowingly give birth control to immigrants from Ethiopia and other Beta Isreal groups?
No, they KNOWINGLY gave unwanted birth control shots and pills to groups who are not Ashkenazi Jews.....and Obama, being the slave to Israel he is, still sucked up to Israel major today. Just when I thought I couldn't lose any more respect for Obama, today happened lol
What did you expect him to do, say "This is a very nice country btw yall are ? evil"? They're kissing each other's ? , that's what close allies do during a fancy event like this. For someone who always wants diplomacy you don't seem to know how diplomacy works. Did you read the welcome speeches he got:
Mr. President, The United States became great by giving. Not by taking. (LOL) Your generosity enabled freedom to prevail all over the world. A world without America's leadership, without It's moral voice, would be a poorer world. A world without your friendship, will invite aggression against Israel
Mr. President, Your story reflects the history of the world as it is. Your vision reflects the future as it should be. You have offered the American people and the peoples of the world a leadership of vision, a leadership of values. A leadership dedicated to a brighter tomorrow.
In times of peace, in times of war, your support for Israel is unshakeable. You enabled our security in an extraordinary way, to project strength. To strive for peace. Strengthening security is the best way to strengthen peace.
We long to see end the conflict with the Palestinians. To see the Palestinians enjoy freedom and prosperity in their own state. We extend our hand in peace to all the countries of the Middle East.
Being surprised by Obama praising Israel during the opening hours of a state visit to Israel is ? . Being surprised by Palestinians burning a photo of the U.S President is ? . This ain't no damn vacation (well, the trip to Jordan is - Petra is ? awesome) Obama has real objectives to aim for here, like raising his approval rating in Israel from -7%, like convincing the Israeli public that contrary to the impression he gave in the Cairo speech he understands that Israel doesn't just exist "because of the Holocaust" but because there's been Jews living there for 4,000 ? years, like warning the Israel public that they're headed down the wrong path, like creating the leverage for a change on settlements, like giving Kerry a prayer to restart peace talks, like reminding them bombing Iran is a bad idea; that said ? off Iran. (btw actually talk to an Israeli sometime and ask them what they think about bombing Iran, you'll be surprised) Is he gonna accomplish all that? Hell no, he'll be lucky if he can convince them he wasn't born in Kenya. Worth a shot tho.
But of course, Secretary of State KingBlaze wants Obama to step onto the tarmac at Ben-Gurion and announce that Israel is evil and they shouldn't exist and weed should be legalized and taxed; Free Mumia. Brilliant. lol ? outta here. And for the record, Palestinian protesters would still burn photos of President KingBlaze, even after he hits Tel Aviv w/ drones and cruise missiles LOL.
I'm tired of Israel's ? too, but I at least understand Israel....and the Palestinians, aka those guys that unload a proverbial uzi in their foot at every opportunity. You always treat Israel like its this Rick Rude pro-wrestling heel, like the only opinions one can possibly hold about them are "? Israel" or "Israel can do no wrong", like it wasn't Israeli journalists that exposed the Depo-Provera crime on Israeli TV.
You need to read more Haaretz. The Israeli Left is giddy about Obama's visit:
Obama is an American president, so he will speak in a reserved manner. Barack Obama is a civilized man, so he will be polite. But the message concealed in President Obama’s speech in the International Convention Center in Jerusalem (Binyanei Hauma) will be clear − Israelis, wake up. Don’t let the freedom state you’ve established with so much labor drown in the swamp of the occupation.
Don’t let your Jewish Athens become a Sparta of eternal war. Don’t delude yourselves that you’re an island. You’re not. You must find a reasonable way to coexist with the Arabs surrounding you and with the Palestinians you still rule.
Well here's the problem with what you're saying, OBAMA IS ONLY SOLIDIFYING THE IMPRESSION THAT AMERICA IS A STOOGE FOR ISRAEL. By saying foolishly that Palestinians should resume peace talks while their land is being stolen on a daily basis is beyond ? , how can anyone negotiate with a country as war crimes are being committed on its own territory. Obama sucked up to Israel to win political points from both Democrats and Republicans back home, bravo on that. However, he just gained further hatred from the Middle East, you think all these kissy kissy photo ops with Benjamin Netanyahu are gonna help America's popularity in the Muslim/Arab world? Hell no, it's only putting American citizens more in harm's way worldwide.
Obama will be polite to a man whose a war criminal, that's very nice to know lol let's see how well those photo ops play out in Afghanistan where we still have American troops. I understand there are Israelis who hate the illegal settlements and who dislike Benjamin Netanyahu as well but it doesn't change the basic fact Israel is committing war crimes every day. Obama needs to stop being a little ? and talk tough on Israel and back up his words with action. Of course, I'm expecting too much of him, he's a coward of the highest order. Not much better or different then Bush. I do know the Palestinians shoot themselves in the foot time to time but that's not a good excuse to suck up to a nation committing war crimes and giving them billions of dollars a year to help build more illegal settlements. Shame on Obama for being a coward and slave to Israel.
