Is fleeing to Hong Kong a good look when the U.S Gov't wants your head?
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ok...so he so called exposed the truth.
why go and try to side with our closest enemy who is know for wiretapping and steal data over the internets and hacking?
that makes no sense.
he can go anywhere but he choose hong kong and trying ti get to china.
that doesnt make him sound like a hero....that makes him sound selfish.
look at what assange did....he didnt need to go to china to inform the public.
you can help the public understand whats going on without hurting the public. you dont think he gonns go to china an give up more info?
He's in China right now because he probably fears, for good reason, being attacked by a drone strike or a CIA agent trying to ? him. America has a ? reputation and for the record they have hacked China just as much as they've hacked us. Going to China does seem hypocritical I agree with that, but likely he's there to protect himself. He could have been anonymous but he went public because he wants the world to know who he is, in case he's attacked....and if he is attacked, we all know who would do him in. He knows what he's doing -
yeah, but remember, Obama was OUTRAGED by what the Bush administration did with the Patriot Act and he's going to change on that if you elect him president!but seeing how it's becoming clear that many people are uneducated and ignorant
to exactly what is in the PATRIOT ACT, this sudden revelation is understandably shocking and surprising
i'm just going to point out that you said "he's released tons of documents"kingblaze84 wrote: »So who released all those documents the newspapers claim to have? Even if he didn't bring out documents, someone close to him did. And for the record, sources say Snowden DID release documents so....
yeah, remember when Daniel Ellsberg fled the country in order to protect himself as he leaked the Pentagon Papers?kingblaze84 wrote: »Going to China does seem hypocritical I agree with that, but likely he's there to protect himself.
oh wait -
yeah, but remember, Obama was OUTRAGED by what the Bush administration did with the Patriot Act and he's going to change on that if you elect him president!but seeing how it's becoming clear that many people are uneducated and ignorant
to exactly what is in the PATRIOT ACT, this sudden revelation is understandably shocking and surprising
i'm just going to point out that you said "he's released tons of documents"kingblaze84 wrote: »So who released all those documents the newspapers claim to have? Even if he didn't bring out documents, someone close to him did. And for the record, sources say Snowden DID release documents so....
yeah, remember when Daniel Ellsberg fled the country in order to protect himself as he leaked the Pentagon Papers?kingblaze84 wrote: »Going to China does seem hypocritical I agree with that, but likely he's there to protect himself.
oh wait
Daniel Ellsberg stayed in America true but what Snowden has done is even more damaging to the govt, it ruins America's credibility when docs show America is hacking into countries all around the world and reading the emails of ordinary citizens and people around the globe. Americans have also been the target of drone attacks worldwide, so who knows how the CIA or NSA might try to silence Snowden. You can't blame him for being paranoid now
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/edward-snowden-protesters-hong-kong-streets-support-nsa/story?id=19409773#.UbzCednNnDY
Protesters took to the streets in Hong Kong Saturday to show their support for NSA leaker Edward Snowden and demand a "thorough explanation" of the secret surveillance program he exposed.
Roughly 200 people braved the rain to march to the U.S. consulate, chanting "Free Snowden" and "Arrest Obama." Others carried large posters with pictures under the headline "Big brother is watching you."
Outside the U.S. consulate, demonstrators blew their whistles saying they "were all whistle-blowers today," then handed over a letter to Consul General Steve Young, demanding an end to all surveillance of "innocent internet users" under the NSA program.
"The idea of mass surveillance not only violates the right to privacy and human dignity, but threatens the very fundamental Human Rights of freedom of thought, opinion, expression and association," the letter said. -
this kind of thing is probably debatable based on when they happened, but again, it probably helps the government when the people airing them out aren't willing to stand up like Ellsberg did. just saying.kingblaze84 wrote: »Daniel Ellsberg stayed in America true but what Snowden has done is even more damaging to the govt
i can if the argument is "the US government killed an American citizen who was overseas working with known terrorists with a drone attack, so Snowden is likely to be next." because THAT specifically is a weak comparison. now, that said, this was also theoretically the point of Snowden going public and all that.kingblaze84 wrote: »Americans have also been the target of drone attacks worldwide, so who knows how the CIA or NSA might try to silence Snowden. You can't blame him for being paranoid now -
Obama need to assassinate Glenn Greenwald. No drones, that'd be dumb. Nice and clean poisoning. Look like he just had a heart attack.
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Swiffness! wrote: »Obama need to assassinate Glenn Greenwald. No drones, that'd be dumb. Nice and clean poisoning. Look like he just had a heart attack.
Obama should be killing reporters now? You hear yourself? -
Looks like Snowden is attempting to make it to Cuba by way of Moscow. Do you think Moscow will let him leave, Or will Russia take him for their own purposes?
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-06-21/gchq-tapped-data-cables/
Former National Security Agency contractor Edward Snowden, who is reportedly booked on a flight from Moscow to Cuba, could travel from Havana to the Venezuelan capital, Caracas, according to news agency Itar-Tass.
WikiLeaks has claimed that it helped with Edward Snowden's "political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers and safe exit from Hong Kong".
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Props to Hong Kong for letting Snowden escape the clutches of the beyond corrupt, ? American govt. I hope he escapes and lives safely in whatever country he goes in. America has lost 100% of its moral authority and few nations even pretend to respect our opinion anymore, for tons of good reasons. I wish Snowden the best and still consider him to be a national hero. Without him, we wouldn't have known the extent of how often Obama, Bush, and the other ? ups in govt are violating the 4th amendment.
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thing is, if he claims he's got all these documents that can devastate US national security (let's assume that's true) and he heads to a country like, say, Ecuador (or even Russia, whatever), then he's not long for claiming the moral high ground by NOT releasing these documents... because it's not like a foreign nation isn't going to want something for its largesse.
and at that point he loses a lot of the ability to call himself a hero. but we'll see. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Props to Hong Kong for letting Snowden escape the clutches of the beyond corrupt, ? American govt. I hope he escapes and lives safely in whatever country he goes in. America has lost 100% of its moral authority and few nations even pretend to respect our opinion anymore, for tons of good reasons. I wish Snowden the best and still consider him to be a national hero. Without him, we wouldn't have known the extent of how often Obama, Bush, and the other ? ups in govt are violating the 4th amendment.
Why are you so eager to cosign other countries when their history is as shady towards their people? Hong Kong can gets a pass only because they are vocal, but in reality China runs them no matter how free they think they are. Is Ecuador and Cuba (two places that he has the option to flee to) any better when it comes to human rights and freedom of speech? How are they on freedom of the press? This dude Bradley manning is taking it like a boss even though his blatant disregard in releasing every damn thing to a foreign interest isn't something i consider proper. I don't think any government or country or it's citizens has the right to act like they are beyond shadiness. If we are going to deal with OUR corrupt government, then we should keep our problems within our country rather then involve our enemies or frenemies whom have no investment in seeing our people's rights honored nor theirs. When the pentagon papers were released, that was kept within our borders and still did it's job in exposing corruption.
People be in here acting like other countries ? don't stink. They really be in here cosigning ? Russia be saying like they not as shady and corrupt. -
to add onto FuriousOne's point, Ecuador is ABSOLUTELY hypocritical on this issue:
which is going to be responded to, "BUT THE US IS ALSO HYPOCRITICAL!" fine, it is. but let's keep this in mind when we overpraise a country like Ecuador which is not welcoming Snowden because they champion human rights.Snowden is said to be seeking asylum in Ecuador, with passage reportedly through Venezuela. Leaks of sensitive government information are growing less likely by the day in the two nations, which have moved aggressively to silence independent reporting. Venezuela has effectively eradicated independent broadcast outlets through its politicized regulatory system. Ecuador's president, Rafael Correa, has pursued criminal prosecution of his critics. His government went even further this month, as CPJ's John Otis recounted, with the adoption of sweeping legislation that criminalizes critical follow-up reporting and obligates news media to cover government-prescribed activities. -
How ironic about Ecuador (Russia too) but to be fair, America has done lots of destructive ? around the world that Ecuador is not doing. Not defending Ecuador's shady govt but America is out there doing much worse worldwide, including hacking into nations around the world
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however, that's not really the point. Snowden's claim is that he's doing this for righteous reasons. OBVIOUSLY this means he's indicting the US for surveillance programs or whatever else. but when we start playing the "America does much worse stuff all the time," it means we're basically giving Ecuador (or whoever) a pass as long as we can identify America as doing something worse.kingblaze84 wrote: »How ironic about Ecuador (Russia too) but to be fair, America has done lots of destructive ? around the world that Ecuador is not doing. Not defending Ecuador's shady govt but America is out there doing much worse worldwide, including hacking into nations around the world -
however, that's not really the point. Snowden's claim is that he's doing this for righteous reasons. OBVIOUSLY this means he's indicting the US for surveillance programs or whatever else. but when we start playing the "America does much worse stuff all the time," it means we're basically giving Ecuador (or whoever) a pass as long as we can identify America as doing something worse.kingblaze84 wrote: »How ironic about Ecuador (Russia too) but to be fair, America has done lots of destructive ? around the world that Ecuador is not doing. Not defending Ecuador's shady govt but America is out there doing much worse worldwide, including hacking into nations around the world
however, that's not really the point. Snowden's claim is that he's doing this for righteous reasons. OBVIOUSLY this means he's indicting the US for surveillance programs or whatever else. but when we start playing the "America does much worse stuff all the time," it means we're basically giving Ecuador (or whoever) a pass as long as we can identify America as doing something worse.kingblaze84 wrote: »How ironic about Ecuador (Russia too) but to be fair, America has done lots of destructive ? around the world that Ecuador is not doing. Not defending Ecuador's shady govt but America is out there doing much worse worldwide, including hacking into nations around the world
I don't think anyone here is giving Ecuador a pass....what I am saying though is America IS doing worse worldwide by hacking into other nations' government files AND private citizens' files. Mind you, this is worldwide and is one of the biggest illegal things any govt has ever done since, damn forever. But that doesn't mean I'm giving Ecuador or Russia a pass, but it ruins America's credibility worldwide. Obama had a speech in Germany last week and only 5000 people showed up. 5 years ago, Obama was greeted by 200 thousand. -
see this right here, where your primary reaction to questioning Ecuador's credibility is "America is worse?" that's giving Ecuador a pass.kingblaze84 wrote: »I don't think anyone here is giving Ecuador a pass....what I am saying though is America IS doing worse worldwide by hacking into other nations' government files AND private citizens' files.
if the issue was calling out countries acting badly, you'd bashing them both. i mean, you are not a poster to claim that as of NOW you consider America's credibility impugned. but frankly, if the issue is the human rights of residents --and i say this because of the language Ecuador uses in discussing Snowden-- the US probably has a better record than Ecuador. doesn't mean the US doesn't do their own ? , but still.
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Lol at Germany having a Moral high ground. I guess they had a lot of life lessons.
@kingblaze84 If you are going to ? on America, please refrain from mentioning other countries catching feelings when they themselves didn't do anything to correct their actions until their country was leveled. They still getting their inner ? on over there btw. -
FuriousOne wrote: »Lol at Germany having a Moral high ground. I guess they had a lot of life lessons.
@kingblaze84 If you are going to ? on America, please refrain from mentioning other countries catching feelings when they themselves didn't do anything to correct their actions until their country was leveled. They still getting their inner ? on over there btw.
Germany definitely doesn't have a high moral ground over America lol we all know that. But it's still very telling 200 K people showed up for Obama 5 years ago and last week only a pathetic 5000 people showed up. More people show up for low budget amusement parks. America's reputation is being hurt by all this, that's the only concern of mine. I'm American and want to see America respected again. Right now we're not and that's why so many people around the world wana bomb the ? out of us. And worse.... -
see this right here, where your primary reaction to questioning Ecuador's credibility is "America is worse?" that's giving Ecuador a pass.kingblaze84 wrote: »I don't think anyone here is giving Ecuador a pass....what I am saying though is America IS doing worse worldwide by hacking into other nations' government files AND private citizens' files.
if the issue was calling out countries acting badly, you'd bashing them both. i mean, you are not a poster to claim that as of NOW you consider America's credibility impugned. but frankly, if the issue is the human rights of residents --and i say this because of the language Ecuador uses in discussing Snowden-- the US probably has a better record than Ecuador. doesn't mean the US doesn't do their own ? , but still.
How can you say that when I just said Ecuador DOES NOT get a pass? I hate tyrannical govts, it just makes the people lose respect for authority. But come on, be honest and real with yourself, is Ecuador killing thousands of people worldwide every year for minerals in Afghanistan? Did Ecuador start the war in Iraq?
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kingblaze84 wrote: »FuriousOne wrote: »Lol at Germany having a Moral high ground. I guess they had a lot of life lessons.
@kingblaze84 If you are going to ? on America, please refrain from mentioning other countries catching feelings when they themselves didn't do anything to correct their actions until their country was leveled. They still getting their inner ? on over there btw.
Germany definitely doesn't have a high moral ground over America lol we all know that. But it's still very telling 200 K people showed up for Obama 5 years ago and last week only a pathetic 5000 people showed up. More people show up for low budget amusement parks. America's reputation is being hurt by all this, that's the only concern of mine. I'm American and want to see America respected again. Right now we're not and that's why so many people around the world wana bomb the ? out of us. And worse....
Well your claim would be valid if these same Jihadist weren't exploding bombs the world over. I think they hate western and eastern or any culture that isn't based on their Sharia views. Just look how they react to the silliest ? like a drawing of a despot whom claimed sanctity. I really give no ? how the world views us. We should deal with our own problems and keep it in our borders instead of dry snitch to China. They will still call on our support when they are drowning in Tsunami floods and debt as they still know that we are the most generous (bribes work). Those broke peasant ? in Ecuador will learn for slighting America and not accepting our friendship funds. Their peasants will soon burn their capital once the broke ? revolution begins. They will thank Snowden and then hunt him down once they realize they are still broke as ? and ? on the big ? that was willing to lend em a buck or two.. -
let's try "because in supposedly NOT giving Ecuador a pass, you have skipped actually criticizing them to complain about the Iraq War."kingblaze84 wrote: »How can you say that when I just said Ecuador DOES NOT get a pass? I hate tyrannical govts, it just makes the people lose respect for authority. But come on, be honest and real with yourself, is Ecuador killing thousands of people worldwide every year for minerals in Afghanistan? Did Ecuador start the war in Iraq?
seriously, show me a post that's not majority you saying "but America is WORSE" and i would change my mind. Ecuador's hypocrisy on human rights is not invalidated because you don't like something the US did.
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let's try "because in supposedly NOT giving Ecuador a pass, you have skipped actually criticizing them to complain about the Iraq War."kingblaze84 wrote: »How can you say that when I just said Ecuador DOES NOT get a pass? I hate tyrannical govts, it just makes the people lose respect for authority. But come on, be honest and real with yourself, is Ecuador killing thousands of people worldwide every year for minerals in Afghanistan? Did Ecuador start the war in Iraq?
seriously, show me a post that's not majority you saying "but America is WORSE" and i would change my mind. Ecuador's hypocrisy on human rights is not invalidated because you don't like something the US did.
But America has done worse, are you denying this? -
FuriousOne wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »FuriousOne wrote: »Lol at Germany having a Moral high ground. I guess they had a lot of life lessons.
@kingblaze84 If you are going to ? on America, please refrain from mentioning other countries catching feelings when they themselves didn't do anything to correct their actions until their country was leveled. They still getting their inner ? on over there btw.
Germany definitely doesn't have a high moral ground over America lol we all know that. But it's still very telling 200 K people showed up for Obama 5 years ago and last week only a pathetic 5000 people showed up. More people show up for low budget amusement parks. America's reputation is being hurt by all this, that's the only concern of mine. I'm American and want to see America respected again. Right now we're not and that's why so many people around the world wana bomb the ? out of us. And worse....
Well your claim would be valid if these same Jihadist weren't exploding bombs the world over. I think they hate western and eastern or any culture that isn't based on their Sharia views. Just look how they react to the silliest ? like a drawing of a despot whom claimed sanctity. I really give no ? how the world views us. We should deal with our own problems and keep it in our borders instead of dry snitch to China. They will still call on our support when they are drowning in Tsunami floods and debt as they still know that we are the most generous (bribes work). Those broke peasant ? in Ecuador will learn for slighting America and not accepting our friendship funds. Their peasants will soon burn their capital once the broke ? revolution begins. They will thank Snowden and then hunt him down once they realize they are still broke as ? and ? on the big ? that was willing to lend em a buck or two..
Rush Limbaugh is that you???? Maybe you're Bill O' Reily??
Nah seriously I hate Islamist radicals as much as the next guy does but America is fanning the flames of hatred by bombing and killing innocent civilians all over the world, especially in Afghanistan and Pakistan. You do know America is using drones all over Pakistan WITHOUT Pakistan's approval right? That means America doesn't care about violating international law, something that was supposed to change under Obama.....
Islamist radicals are a cancer in many parts of the world, true, but they are NOT bombing the whole world lol. America is the #1 target of terror due to its evil policies worldwide, I don't see Ecuador, Canada, Brazil or Cuba going through the massive terror threats America is going through on a daily basis. Islamist radicals are closer to Europe and Africa, but for some strange reason, they seem to wana target America and Israel more then any other nation. HMMMM....I wonder why...... -
Check this out Furious.....it's not just the Germans seeing America for what it really is....
http://www.boston.com/news/world/africa/2013/06/28/hundreds-protest-obama-visit-south-africa/EgIZ4q6nsjmeMLCLWf5lIK/story.html
JOHANNESBURG (AP) — Hundreds of protesters marched to the U.S. embassy in South Africa on Friday in a peaceful protest against the impending visit by President Barack Obama.
The demonstrators opposed U.S. policy on Cuba, the war in Afghanistan, global warming and other issues. The rally in Pretoria was organized by trade unionists and members of the South African Communist Party.
The protesters want to raise public awareness and warn U.S. citizens about human rights violations committed by the Obama administration, which includes the non-closure of the Guantanamo Bay prison holding terrorism suspects, said campaign coordinator Mbuyiseni Ndlozi.
‘‘Their administration’s government is not welcome, and is being received with antagonism,’’ Ndlozi said. ‘‘Therefore they'll have to rethink the standards by which they hold their government.’’
Protesters carried signs that read: ‘‘No, You Can’t Obama,’’ a message inspired by the ‘‘Yes We Can’’ campaign slogan adopted by the president during his first run for election.
Obama and his family were expected to arrive in South Africa later Friday as part of a tour of three African countries. Their three-day trip includes a visit to Cape Town’s Robben Island, where former President Nelson Mandela spent 18 of his 27 years imprisoned by the previous white racist South African government.
Demonstrators staged a similar protest outside the Parliament building in Cape Town where Obama’s record on human rights and trade relations in Africa were questioned.
‘‘He’s coming here to plunder Africa and South Africa,’’ protester Abdurahman Khan said. ‘‘He’s coming for the wealth and resources, for the gold and the diamond mines, while the majority of Africans and South Africans are suffering.’’
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what the ? does this have to do with what i am saying, beyond confirming EXACTLY what i am saying about you giving Ecuador a pass on any misbehavior?kingblaze84 wrote: »But America has done worse, are you denying this?
oh, since you probably skipped this part in your fury to post the same exact post you already did: "seriously, show me a post that's not majority you saying "but America is WORSE" and i would change my mind. Ecuador's hypocrisy on human rights is not invalidated because you don't like something the US did."
