About to go to war with N. Korea?

And Step wrote: »

She may be a crackhead cousin, but if you think China is going to go for a greater US presence in their area than they already have you are sorely mistaken. They will most certainly extend a continental ? slap to anybody who sets foot in that region and attempts to destabilize it. How they feel about North Korea is irrelevant.

I wouldn't be surprised by a China-backed coup in North Korea. More likely than a war imho

Swiffness! wrote: »

just adding my two cents is all.

o. my bad. u threw me off cause you went point by point like you were arguing against my main point.

i was thinking, he's making the same argument, lol

janklow wrote: »

well...

01. i'm not sure why we seem to think it's a given that NK's population will fight to the last man because Kim is "held in high revence in that country." yeah, there's a high level of indoctrination, so it's not right to think it will just crumble in moments, but i doubt every last man and woman is gleefully hoping to die for Dear Leader.
02. this "million man army" thing just makes me wonder why we're supposed to be so impressed by North Korea's military: it doesn't have a stellar track record, it's nothing but spouting a number and expecting us to be impressed by that alone.
03. i'm not sure what "further supported by china" means in this context; i am curious.

i am not sure how this is a response to NK shooting a torpedo at an SK ship

i think, honestly, that China just can't work out the math on how to make this happen

You are VASTLY underrating North Korea's military. They are very gangsta over there, almost as gangsta as America's government. NK has blown up a submarine filled with SK's navy men.....and NO ONE has responded militarily. NO ONE.....all the US and SK are doing is some showboat, military exercises now. Which is fine, but that doesn't scare NK too much. They don't want a war, but their not exactly hiding from the USA either! Don't deny the power of a million man army that has connections to China, a slowly growing superpower that holds trillions of the dying empire's debt.

kingblaze84 wrote: »

You are VASTLY underrating North Korea's military. They are very gangsta over there, almost as gangsta as America's government. NK has blown up a submarine filled with SK's navy men.....and NO ONE has responded militarily. NO ONE.....all the US and SK are doing is some showboat, military exercises now. Which is fine, but that doesn't scare NK too much. They don't want a war, but their not exactly hiding from the USA either! Don't deny the power of a million man army that has connections to China, a slowly growing superpower that holds trillions of the dying empire's debt.

man this a little off topic, but i'm waiting to see who is going to be the first politician in this country to step up and admit that the us is a dying empire and it's time to cut our losses. we can't afford to maintain our empire around the world anymore, let alone engage in more military occupations.

not saying that the america's reign as a global power is over, but we need to reevaluate our priorities and abilities so that as our power lessons we can still be a (or maybe the) major player in the world.

lmao @the posts in thsi thread...

bunch of clowns...none of u have a clue...actin liek y'all are top military officials in the know...or luke u 1 of the elties runnign the country yourself...lmaooooo...so many idiots...

the book of daniel and the book of revelation...predicted what is happening right now...and those books were written thousands of years ago...

back in 2008...when i came into the truth, i predicted and even wrote down exactly what is happening right now...almost got down to the tee...

u clowns wont kno what hit u til dem missles are slapping u in ur face...

babylon will fall down.

One Spliff wrote: »

lmao @the posts in thsi thread...

bunch of clowns...none of u have a clue...actin liek y'all are top military officials in the know...or luke u 1 of the elties runnign the country yourself...lmaooooo...so many idiots...

the book of daniel and the book of revelation...predicted what is happening right now...and those books were written thousands of years ago...

back in 2008...when i came into the truth, i predicted and even wrote down exactly what is happening right now...almost got down to the tee...

u clowns wont kno what hit u til dem missles are slapping u in ur face...

babylon will fall down.

so i take it you most be the messiah since you predicted the outcome of the world all the way back in 2008.

One Spliff wrote: »

lmao @the posts in thsi thread...

bunch of clowns...none of u have a clue...actin liek y'all are top military officials in the know...or luke u 1 of the elties runnign the country yourself...lmaooooo...so many idiots...

the book of daniel and the book of revelation...predicted what is happening right now...and those books were written thousands of years ago...

back in 2008...when i came into the truth, i predicted and even wrote down exactly what is happening right now...almost got down to the tee...

u clowns wont kno what hit u til dem missles are slapping u in ur face...

babylon will fall down.

I agree Babylon (the USA) will fall down hard some day, but when do you think the U.S. will fall? You're being very judgemental Nostradamus, perhaps you should enlighten us.

And where are these missle going to come from, China? Russia?

If there is a War;
-It won't just be N Korea vs US/SK... Russia, UK, USA, SK, France, Germany, to name a few will be involved in the fight against NK, but NK, will also have the help of Iran, and although N Korea may not have the means to send a Nuke to hit DC, Berlin, Moscow or Paris, Iran does, and they most likely will use that, if the threat becomes great enough.
-In the case of a Nuclear War, the allied nations have developed non-nuclear bombs that emit no radiations, but still cause a blast as big or bigger, as the Russians did test one of theirs, and was only the third largest Internationally, back in 2006.
-Spec Ops will most likely begin the war, much like the Bay of Pigs.
-China doesn't want to get involved in any way, if they do, they will either be smothered by the UN, or likely that Iran/NK will use nukes against them for a "betrayal" type situation. Also the US doesn't want China to pick a side, given that China manufactures millions of tons of goods for the US annually, and that would instantly be cut off, if they side with NK. It would likely be cut off if they enter a war, as they'd have to shift from economical gain, towards

Trying to Avoid the war;
-The Allied nations (UN Nations) are trying to find a solution to choke the N Korea's into their terms, without starting/causing a war. First by cutting off finances to NK, and the eventually will lead to NK being condemned. Whilst they are being condemned, it will be much like Cuba during the cold war, ships will be searched and in the event of weapons being transported, they will be confiscated or turned away. I doubt it will ever get to the point where the UN needs to shut off supplies such as food or amenities to NK.
-No one wants a war, if anyone did, it would have started a long time ago, if not years ago, it would have started after it was confirmed that NK sunk the ship.

kingblaze84 wrote: »

China defended NK in the 1950s, why do you think America backed down in 1953? We didn't want Chinese troops getting involved, it would have been ugly and messy. They still have good relations, and have privately financed their missle programs, as any research online can prove for you.

proof china financed their missile program?

and why do you think the chinese would get involved in a war this time? you seem to be making assumptions here.
china has places like tibet and taiwan to worry about. NK is last on that list of places china would fight for.

janklow wrote: »

the issue i have is people acting as if every North Korean is in sync with those beliefs. when the Dear Leader pulled all his recent currency games, it's not like every North Korean gleefully went along with it. yes, their indoctrination is severe and it would be a ? war, but even that has its limits.

this is clearly speculation on both our parts to how hard the nk's would fight. my point is that most of the evidence of how that society works suggests that it would not be a cakewalk by the us like some in this thread have suggested. people saying a "million man army" is just a number is ridiculous. nk has the fourth largest army in the world with a very well established command-and-control that has been planing for this war since 1953, and there is no evidence to suggest that that army would not fight hard against a us-led invasion.

janklow wrote: »

well, i didn't forget it, because that never happened. let me post my earlier time line of the Korean War:

-surprise NK attack against under-trained, under-supplied US/SK forces that barely hang on;
-uh, bring in some US Marines or something;
-NK forces apparently not as awesome as previously thought;
-uh, bring in so very many Chinese troops;
-end this war before Alan Alda's preaching makes us ? someone

the US they fought in 1950 wasn't a "brand-new military superpower" (even if we thought we were) and essentially beat NK once they recovered. CHINA is the nation that fought the US to a standstill. and honestly, i don't see them jumping in militarily if NK starts a war with SK by attacking them. i also don't think the US jumps in, but that's just me.

you're right that china assiting the nk helped them win the war. the same way france assisting america in the revolutionary war helped us beat the british, and it was still a WIN for america. regardless, the outcome is that the two armies in the conflict on the korean peninsula fought to a standstill. and we can only speculate the amount of involvement of the us and china this time around but though i seriously doubt there will be any war at all, if war did break out in korea, there's no way the us and china would sit on the sidelines. because the strategic and geo-political ramifications for the world's two greatest powers would be too great(see previous posts).

so you would bascially have a re-hasing of the first korean war. which the fact still remains north korea and it's allies fought the us and it's allies to standstill. and you add in the fact that the us is now in a weaker position than we were 10-15 years ago then the probability that the us could conduct a successful war against north korea is less than it was in 1953.

so imo your argument that somehow the north korean army is overrated and wouldn't hold water to the us is implausible and irrelevant. cause basically IF south korea and north korea go to war, the us and china will have to get involved, and currently the china/nk alliance would be fighting from a greater position of strength while the sk/us alliance would be fighting from a position of weakness. which is one reason why there won't be any war.

janklow wrote: »

well, it wasn't attacked then either. but here's the thing: what else has the NK military done since 1953 besides posture? this is what i'm talking about regarding this non-stellar record.

clearly that one prior outcome and posturing has been enough to prevent any further military responses over the last 60 years despite constant agitation by the north koreans.

janklow wrote: »

well, i disagree, in the following ways (and note that it depends on what you think the goal of the war is):

Korea: draw in that Korea was not unified, but successful in coming to the aid of South Korea; would have been a clear-cut "win" if China had been kept out of the war (blame MacArthur)
Vietnam: militarily, we did not lose the war. when we left in 1973, South Vietnam was still its own nation. but we ? up politically and, frankly, when Truman let France keep it as a colony. THAT was the error. that said, yeah, we didn't "win," but not for military reasons
Persian Gulf I: we agree, but honestly i was thinking you wouldn't count it as a major war
Afghanistan: in terms of the war in 2002, we "won." in terms of trying to make Afghanistan a functioning country... not so much. but that's a political issue that you can't bomb your way to victory in, so, see what i said about Vietnam
Iraq: again, in terms of the war in 2003, we "won." in terms of trying to make Iraq functioning country... well, it sort of functions. we'll see how it goes, i'd like to be optimistic

i think this boils down to "i am not afraid of North Korea's ability to fight the US, but i don't know what the ? the US would do to build a country there if we beat them in a war"

sorry but the goal of a war is not open to opinion. in war each side has a strategic goal they're trying to achieve. if they achieve that goal it's a win. if they don't it's a loss.

korea: ok. so you agree it was a draw. neither side achieved their strategic goal.
vietnam: no victory in war is about strictly achieving a military goal. you use the military and political means to achieve a strategic goal. the strategic goal of the vietnam war was to prevent communism from spreading into indochina. the us did not achieve that strategic goal. therefore we loss that war.
persian gulf: i defiantly see it as major war. it had a great effect on america's geo-political and strategic positioning in the middle east
afghanistan: i put a "?" because honestly i can't say what the strategic goal of the us is in afghanistan. it's it to root out the taliban? is it to set-up a functioning democracy? is it to capture al-qaeda leaders? is it to protect pakistan from falling to muslim extremists? i really don't know what our ultimate goal is in afghanistan.
iraq: i put a "?" because it's too early to tell if it was a "win or "loss". the strategic goal of the us is to turn iraq into a functioning democracy that is closely allied with the us. if that happens it's a win. if not it's a loss.

janklow wrote: »

i guess my theory is that i don't see China leaping to the aid of North Korea if North Korea out-and-out starts a war. even in 1950, they didn't leap to NK's aid until THEY felt threatened. i think if SK/the US could make it clear that the war was about nothing more than dealing with NK, it would be less of an issue than people think.

but again, i don't see China OR the US jumping into this conflict.

you really believe if the us went to war with nk and said to the chinese, "we promise this is just about north korea" than china would say,
"ok, sure you can take out one of our major proxies in the world".
"we don't care that after the war ends there will be us troops on the chinese border."
"yeah the whole idea of america gaining more power in our strategic sphere of influence is cool with us."
"and we have absolutely no problem with the perception of china conceding to allow the us to set up a democratic government on the entire korean pennisula would have in taiwan, hong kong, and parts of mainland china."

and north korea is not going to start an out-and-out war with south korea. if anything, nk would try and bait the south koreans to attack. which isn't going to happen.

kingblaze84 wrote: »

China has tons of issues of its own but in the long term, their going to be in MUCH better shape than the USA.

Let's be real: we have NO ? CLUE what the world's gonna be like in 50 years, we can only guess and extrapolate. But we do know that people around the world still dream of coming to America, not China. They all watch our blockbuster movies, bump our music, eat our unhealthy fast food, and ? off to the fake ? AMERICANS INVENTED while surfing the internet AMERICANS ALSO INVENTED. China will never have that kind of status so long as they have their brutal, censorship-obsessed oligarchy that makes our Gov't look like the Star Trek Federation of Planets. And China's art & culture can't even ? with Japan's right now, much less the country that brought the world jazz, blues, rock, r&b, and.....

kingblaze84 wrote: »

They save more than we do

they said this about the Japanese in the 80s until the Japanese gov't started begging its people to "shop like Americans" to boost the stalled economy

kingblaze84 wrote: »

and they're intelligent enough to know that butting in the business of the Middle East means only trouble.

surrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrre they doooooooo.......................lmfao, rofl

the Fallout games take place in a world where China and the U.S had a nuclear war over oil. Just sayin'....

kingblaze84 wrote: »

Killing thousands of people in Pakistan, Iraq, and Afghanistan will not bring peace to the USA, lol......China knows this

oh man.......yes, CHINA knows that killing thousands of people doesn't bring peace................um, Tibet? Do you have any idea how many people have died in Darfur because of Chinese money, political support, and weapons? (hint: 200,000+) Do you have any idea how many Chinese have died in government Laogai prison camps? (hint: 20,000,000+)

They JUST DON'T GIVE A ? , period. That's why the pollution in China is toxic. That's why the Gobi Desert is expanding at an alarming rate. That's why a Chinese citizen can't type "Tiananmen Square protests" into a search engine without cops knocking on their door. That's why the U.S has 50-100 mining deaths a year and China has 4,000-7,000 mining deaths a year.

janklow wrote: »

complete and utter pwnage of negroes who averaged a C- in history class

thank you good sir