Questions and Statements about ? ...
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Why would an infinitely benevolent and compassionate ? choose to "sanctify" the practice of killing a helpless animal that did nothing wrong? It makes zero sense that such a ? would mandate needless suffering.
And if ? is the designer and creator of everything in the universe, this whole "debt" you're speaking of was made up by him. No one is forcing him to collect blood for forgiveness, and he decides what it can or can't be paid for with. The sacrifice of Jesus was therefore an utterly pointless waste of time, considering the fact that ? could just have easily erased the "debt" without any bloodshed. Either way, there is no justice taking place, since the sinners are not the ones paying for their sins. If he is willing to allow sinners into heaven without any punishment for their sins, why does any kind of bloodshed have to accompany his mercy?
The questions being posed here begs for the person to see beyond the bounds of what they are capable of seeing, therefore they cannot be answered. The endless realm of speculation....a dangerous realm to dive too deep into because it often will distort a person perception and have them lose track of what the objective actual facts state. -
The point of this thread is to discuss the merits of Christianity in terms of rationality and legitimacy, not simply as a means of blind hope. If one is willing to just accept Christianity because it provides him hope for life after death, what makes Christianity better than any other religion in the world? You might as well make up your own ? and your own afterlife, if hope is all you are seeking, and logic is not a factor.
So if you're going to argue in favor of Christianity, you have to provide reasons why it should be believed over any other religion. If you're arguing in favor of religion/the ? concept in general, that's another subject entirely.
If you are looking for rationality and merit in Christianity, I would suggest you look for the answers in the person of Jesus. There is talk that this man existed by believers and skeptics alike. There are arguments for and against His Existence and as much as people try to discredit this, the name Jesus still emerges. Hey, if you find reason to believe there was no Jesus, then it would be safe to say there is no ? ; that this "life after death" stuff is just a dillusion that not even the oppressed need to concern themselves with for He is the reason why there is life after death.
My agenda is not to sell you on this. Others may try, but I'm not. If you don't believe it or find it irrational, then so be it. But, when does life in times of struggle ever make sense? It may make sense to the ones observing from a distance, but people in times of suffering are looking for anything to be hopeful about. What better way to be hopeful than to believe there is a second chance at life? Sure, there is the possibility of giving themselves to a false belief, but believing there will be a day when they are free gives the enslaved something to look forward to. -
alissowack wrote: »If you are looking for rationality and merit in Christianity, I would suggest you look for the answers in the person of Jesus. There is talk that this man existed by believers and skeptics alike. There are arguments for and against His Existence and as much as people try to discredit this, the name Jesus still emerges. Hey, if you find reason to believe there was no Jesus, then it would be safe to say there is no ? ; that this "life after death" stuff is just a dillusion that not even the oppressed need to concern themselves with for He is the reason why there is life after death.
My agenda is not to sell you on this. Others may try, but I'm not. If you don't believe it or find it irrational, then so be it. But, when does life in times of struggle ever make sense? It may make sense to the ones observing from a distance, but people in times of suffering are looking for anything to be hopeful about. What better way to be hopeful than to believe there is a second chance at life? Sure, there is the possibility of giving themselves to a false belief, but believing there will be a day when they are free gives the enslaved something to look forward to.
Whether or not Jesus existed is irrelevant to the validity of Christianity. It's very possible that he did exist, but there is no evidence that he was anything more than a man. Also, not that it bothers me, but people of other religions would probably disagree with your statement that no Jesus = no ? .
The idea of an afterlife does give hope to a lot of people, and offers them an escape (or at least a perceived escape) from the reality of death. And I have no problem with people believing in life after death in the privacy of their own minds. But when people take a coping mechanism and try to enforce it on other people, base laws and policies on it, and convince little kids that a demon is going to torture them forever if they don't do exactly what a book says... then it becomes an issue, and that's the problem I have with organized religion. -
Whether or not Jesus existed is irrelevant to the validity of Christianity. It's very possible that he did exist, but there is no evidence that he was anything more than a man. Also, not that it bothers me, but people of other religions would probably disagree with your statement that no Jesus = no ? .
The idea of an afterlife does give hope to a lot of people, and offers them an escape (or at least a perceived escape) from the reality of death. And I have no problem with people believing in life after death in the privacy of their own minds. But when people take a coping mechanism and try to enforce it on other people, base laws and policies on it, and convince little kids that a demon is going to torture them forever if they don't do exactly what a book says... then it becomes an issue, and that's the problem I have with organized religion.
Oh, but it is relevant for He is why there is the Bible. There would be no Bible without Him. The laws and rules of the Bible would be meaningless without Him. Sure, people would disagree with the "no Jesus=no ? " statement, but if Jesus is not who He said he was, then it would be safe to say ? doesn't exist. I would even go as far to say that we wouldn't exist as well if Jesus didn't exist. -
Damn these ? acually havin a conversation on here, and been kept it goin on some real ? and kept ? going without heavily blaming another race
THATS WHATS UPPPPPPPPPP -
alissowack wrote: »Oh, but it is relevant for He is why there is the Bible. There would be no Bible without Him. The laws and rules of the Bible would be meaningless without Him. Sure, people would disagree with the "no Jesus=no ? " statement, but if Jesus is not who He said he was, then it would be safe to say ? doesn't exist. I would even go as far to say that we wouldn't exist as well if Jesus didn't exist.
So what makes you think he was who he said he was, or rather who the authors of the bible said he was? -
Yeah, there is a gap in logic. Just try to honestly think about it. You're talking about an infinitely loving, infinitely compassionate being, who deliberately creates imperfect beings, and then refuses to forgive them for their imperfections unless innocent blood is spilled. There's the gap. Infinitely compassionate =/= demanding innocent bloodshed.
Don't bother replying with another sermon, because I promise you I've heard it all before. What I haven't heard is an explanation for blood, which cannot be shed without suffering/death, being some kind of currency in which an all-loving ? deals.
The perception of a loving compassionate ? is a more of a new age philosophy. ? is a ? of vengeance, it says so all throughout the bible. ? ? commanded the israelites in their conquest of the land of canaan to sometimes ? every man, woman, and child, and all the cattle. That ? is more of a ? and tyrant like the gods of old mythology, than a ? of love, compassion and forgiveness. -
ether-i-am wrote: »Because the same twisted minds that thought up ? thought up Dracula. I.e. Crosses ? both. Both died and came back. One drinks blood the other wants you to drink his blood. Both have beef with the sun of the morning.
uhhhhh....well damn LMAO -
So what makes you think he was who he said he was, or rather who the authors of the bible said he was?
Does it matter what I think? It's what the Bible says. If the Bible is lying about who Jesus is, then that is more than enough reason to discredit the Bible. The Bible is about this person; His Coming, His Life, His Death and Resurrection. To take Jesus out of the Bible, there would be any Bible left. Even if the laws and rules remained, they would have no significance. -
alissowack wrote: »Does it matter what I think? It's what the Bible says. If the Bible is lying about who Jesus is, then that is more than enough reason to discredit the Bible. The Bible is about this person; His Coming, His Life, His Death and Resurrection. To take Jesus out of the Bible, there would be any Bible left. Even if the laws and rules remained, they would have no significance.
How does anyone know that the Bible's authors were not lying/mistaken about who Jesus was? -
How does anyone know that the Bible's authors were not lying/mistaken about who Jesus was?
Well, there has been research done to know if Jesus is who the authors say He is and found it to be true (and sure there are those who find it false). But I will have to say...so what it is true? Does it mean that Jesus would be believed in? -
This story is making national news now...Interesting
The man who found missing, 11-year-old Nadia Bloom of Florida said ? told him to "follow the sunrise" into the heart of a treacherous swamp where the girl awaited rescue on a log.
The man who found Nadia Bloom, 11, says ? directed his path.
"He [? ] directed my path," volunteer searcher James King told "Good Morning America" today. "When you're in a swamp, there's no good-looking way. He led me directly to her. ... I would be praying and calling out Scriptures and at one point I called out, 'Nadia,' and I heard, 'What?'
"That's a huge swamp. It was strictly the Lord. There was no mathematical calculations. It was the Holy Spirit directing me to where he knew she was the whole time," he said.
Although she had been wandering lost in the swamp for four days, Nadia, who has Asperger's syndrome, was calm and matter-of-fact about her situation, King said, only a little disappointed he didn't have any M&Ms on him.
"I don't know what we talked about. I told her she was very brave," King said. "She did say she only slept about two hours a night ... [and] she'd seen a black snake at some point.
"But ? kept her safe," he said.
Rescuers covered in mud and brandishing machetes emerged from a Florida swamp Tuesday, carrying Nadia on a stretcher through dense alligator-infested wilderness. She disappeared Friday near the swamplands around Winter Springs, Fla.
King, a member of Nadia's church, said the swamp was so dense it took officials about an hour and a half to get to the pair after his 911 call.
Nadia politely jumped in on that emergency phone call.
"Hi, this is Nadia," she said. "I'm the girl that got lost."
Nadia told King she had gone on a nature walk and gotten lost. "She got plenty of nature," he said.
She had mosquito bites from head to toe and lots of scratches but was otherwise OK, King said. -
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? is real so this isnt surprising if it really happened.
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The bible = basic intstructions before leaving earth
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ether-i-am wrote: »Dear lord, this much is clear: nobody, even in the book of myths, and imagination has ever had a conversation with you in the presence of a third entity. Isn't that strange? I'd think that a being who demands worship and obeisance would make his/her existence unambiguously clear to everyone.
How difficult would it be for an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity to communicate to all of us simultaneously? How about a loud voice telling everyone, in one fell swoop, in a universal language comprehensible to everyone, the rules we are expected to follow and the penalties we would incur for failure to comply?
Why do you always need interpreters and messengers or, at least, people who say that they are interpreters and messengers?
Actually, Abraham did in the presence of Sarah, according to the Book. -
The ? people interpret are really old people who told them stories in which they interpreted from someone elses interpretation of an older person. That's why they use interpretors in the first place,they have to write it all down and have people pass it down cause once you die you cant speak no more. If ? was really this great creator telling us how to live our lives, he would tell us in a better way than read this book. IMO an all knowing ? should be smart enough to have realized his book would misinterpreted, rewrote, have things added that shouldnt be, have things taken out, and worst of all he should have none people arent gonna believe it.
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TX_Made713 wrote: »? is real so this isnt surprising if it really happened.
Right, forget leading alll the oppressed peoples out of misery or the children getting their hands chopped off in diamond mines, or starving while searching for food in land fills.... let ? help some random dude find his daughter that he lost during their camping trip.
[IMG]http://www.godareyouserious.com/images/110308_? _are_you_serious_cover_kay_jemison_4dmr.jpg[/IMG] -
If ? is real this ? does ? ass backwards all the time. Good to know the 1 little white girl was more important to save then the millions dying from wars every year, the kids around the world starving to death, all the sick dying constently... Good Job ? I'm glad you at least think everyone is equal even if you never show it.
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Right, forget leading alll the oppressed peoples out of misery or the children getting their hands chopped off in diamond mines, or starving while searching for food in land fills.... let ? help some random dude find his daughter that he lost during their camping trip.
[IMG]http://www.godareyouserious.com/images/110308_? _are_you_serious_cover_kay_jemison_4dmr.jpg[/IMG]
? gotta take lunch breaks too -
ether-i-am wrote: »dear lord,
how come you turn the other way when your children commit unimaginable crimes agaist members of humanity; whom they feel needed jesus?
LORD: Well first of all, they are not my children. They are of their father the devil. My way is simple and It's not that I turn away, you turned from me. -
ether-i-am wrote: »dear lord,
how come you turn the other way when your children commit unimaginable crimes agaist members of humanity; whom they feel needed jesus?
your definition of righteousness and gods definition of righteousness are two different ones -
Thank ? he found her but he didn't find her because he was directly being lead of the Holy Spirit.
A person shouldn't say ? directly told them "to follow the sunrise" either....even if ? had somethin to do with it, that doesn't mean it's proper to say ? 'spoke to you' about anything. And whether or not ? was involved is a matter of a person's own conscience and what they choose to believe. Can't always say for sure tho -
TX_Made713 wrote: »? gotta take lunch breaks too
From what? According to the state of the world he hasn't done ? to take a break from. lol -
solid analysis wrote: »Thank ? he found her but he didn't find her because he was directly being lead of the Holy Spirit.
A person shouldn't say ? directly told them "to follow the sunrise" either....even if ? had somethin to do with it, that doesn't mean it's proper to say ? 'spoke to you' about anything. And whether or not ? was involved is a matter of a person's own conscience and what they choose to believe. Can't always say for sure tho
why not? is it impossible for ? /holy spirit to speak to people?
